[SE3P_to_E90]

I'm genuinely interested in learning more about this, and before I do some little research, Can any Canadians out there tell me how Canada manages to keep their drug prices so low?

Is there some type of government subsidy? Perhaps, some sort of Public Policy? Any knowledge would be of interest. Thanks.

[SE3P_to_E90]

no insight on this whatsoever???

[myfirstbimmer]

Well.....to start with, 99% of our health care systems are government run. We have some private clinics for certain checkups. We have strongly opposed to privatizing health care system in certain provinces. So, i guess private health care tends to have higher prices to everything, including prescription drugs.

[Kiemyster]

srry bro. wish i could help. but im fucking clueless. i would like to know myself....

but if i lived in Canadia (yes, i just said Canadia, because it sounds better), i wouldnt need a perscription. id just smoke weed

[SE3P_to_E90]

Originally Posted by myfirstbimmer

Well.....to start with, 99% of our health care systems are government run. We have some private clinics for certain checkups. We have strongly opposed to privatizing health care system in certain provinces. So, i guess private health care tends to have higher prices to everything, including prescription drugs.

So, is there a big disparity between prices of generic v. nongeneric rx-drug prices?
It looks like Canada takes a nearly full-blown utilitarian approach to healthcare... yet, going off on what you said, i.e. the government intervenes in the healthcare process, what profit-maximizing motive do the top-tier drug companies have in developing new drugs? More specifically, since research and development (R&D) costs billions (in developing new drugs), why would these drug companies decide to develop these drugs if they can't price at a point where marginal benefit = marginal cost; i.e. at the profit-maximizing (monopolistic) price...

I guess the question i'm getting to is, is... Does the Canadian government provide subsidies to these top-tier drug companies to engage in R&D; and/or specific [prolonged] patents?

Your advice thus far was helpful and provided some light in this matter, but i would like to see the 'citizen's' outlook on this!

Originally Posted by Kiemyster

srry bro. wish i could help. but im fucking clueless. i would like to know myself....

but if i lived in Canadia (yes, i just said Canadia, because it sounds better), i wouldnt need a perscription. id just smoke weed

Canadia does sound better, lol.
And in regard to weed, i'm assuming you don't have a prescript right now... and you still hit the fattie...? no?

[ZBMW]

As a customer of Canada Drug I've found that my prescriptions are filled from all over the Commonwealth. Some countries, like New Zealand, list drugs as generic which are still protected by patent in the US. Also, many drugs are manufactured overseas and are cheaper in the country they are made in.
Canada Pharmacy has great service by the way, if you can deal with one month lead times for shipping.
Don't know about Canadian weed, though.

[SE3P_to_E90]

Originally Posted by ZBMW

As a customer of Canada Drug I've found that my prescriptions are filled from all over the Commonwealth. Some countries, like New Zealand, list drugs as generic which are still protected by patent in the US. Also, many drugs are manufactured overseas and are cheaper in the country they are made in.
Canada Pharmacy has great service by the way, if you can deal with one month lead times for shipping.
Don't know about Canadian weed, though.

Cool -- good insight.
just to clarify, are drugs cheap horizontally ~ or much cheaper based on your health provider. i.e., if you don't have health insurance, is it much cheaper?

In regard to the actual R&D questions, i guess i'll have to do a little research on it.

Thanks for the info guys.

[Kiemyster]

Originally Posted by ZBMW

As a customer of Canada Drug I've found that my prescriptions are filled from all over the Commonwealth. Some countries, like New Zealand, list drugs as generic which are still protected by patent in the US. Also, many drugs are manufactured overseas and are cheaper in the country they are made in.
Canada Pharmacy has great service by the way, if you can deal with one month lead times for shipping.
Don't know about Canadian weed, though.

Weed from Canadia competes with the shit you get in amsterdam. in other words: if you know where to go (BC), you just better be a pro cause if ur new blood to the scene, then its a no go.

[SE3P_to_E90]

Originally Posted by Kiemyster

Weed from Canadia competes with the shit you get in amsterdam. in other words: if you know where to go (BC), you just better be a pro cause if ur new blood to the scene, then its a no go.

can i bring my buddy? he knows a lot about weed!!

















he's an officer

[picus]

Originally Posted by SE3P_to_E90

I'm genuinely interested in learning more about this, and before I do some little research, Can any Canadians out there tell me how Canada manages to keep their drug prices so low?

Is there some type of government subsidy? Perhaps, some sort of Public Policy? Any knowledge would be of interest. Thanks.

Originally Posted by SE3P_to_E90

Cool -- good insight.
just to clarify, are drugs cheap horizontally ~ or much cheaper based on your health provider. i.e., if you don't have health insurance, is it much cheaper?

In regard to the actual R&D questions, i guess i'll have to do a little research on it.

Thanks for the info guys.

There is a government subsidy, and as mentioned most of the drugs here are generic; so they are cheaper in general and it is horizontal. My wife was on Lamictal in the U.S, the cost (without insurance) was $770/mo. In Canada the same drug is $230. With her insurance she pays nothing. FWIW, you only need insurance for prescriptions and extended hospital care; but like I said the general price of drugs is much lower.

So yes, I believe drug companies are subsidized or funded privately. A lot of the research goes on at schools. AFAIK, there aren't many major Canadian drug companies.

[SE3P_to_E90]

Originally Posted by picus

There is a government subsidy, and as mentioned most of the drugs here are generic; so they are cheaper in general. My wife was on Lamictal in the U.S, the cost (without insurance) was $770/mo. In Canada the same drug is $230. With her insurance she pays nothing.

So yes, I believe drug companies are subsidized or funded privately. A lot of the research goes on at schools. AFAIK, there aren't many major Canadian drug companies.

thanks for the info PICUS... that was the type of specified info I was looking for... Canada's utilitarian approach to healthcare/drug-benefits seem great.
i should be looking more into this myself, but as for now, your info made me happy.

Now i just have to figure out how the government allocates the funding for these subsidies, why they chose to take this approach, and what benefits/consequences arise from it.

[picus]

Well there is a downside to it, too. Actually, believe it or not healthcare is debated more here than the US. It's the one political issue I can say is more talked about here. See, thing is our taxes are higher (duh), to help pay for this socialist health system. The issue is it is being overwhelmed in a big way, so the government has had to do a number of things like close hospitals, cut nursing jobs, put *caps* on doctors salaries, stop buying new equipment, etc. So the most common complaints are; the wait times are much too long, and the overall quality is worse.

FWIW, I completely agree. When I lived in SF I had Kaiser as an HMO. Now, it was expensive for sure, but the level of care was absolutely astonishingly good compared to what I grew up with. I could get in to see a Family Doctor in 24 hours. I could call specialists and get in in 4-5 days max. The facilities were amazing, tests were done quickly and well. But it was pricey.

Here in Canada, depending on where you live in can take weeks to get appointment. You need to be referred to specialists and that can take *months*, surgeries can literally takes *years*. All that, and the overall quality tends to be worse. Example, in 2003 my mom was diagnosed with breast cancer. In Southern Ontario there are two facilities for chemo/radiation (5.1 million people in Southern Ontario, btw). The waiting list was so long the government paid to have her sent to Buffalo every day for treatment. Every single Canadian has a story like this too. In amazes me really, that *every* person here has a horror story re: the health care system. But it's free.

[scollins]

Originally Posted by picus

In amazes me really, that *every* person here has a horror story re: the health care system. But it's free.

"Free" should be in quotes. Canadians pay for health care, just not in a monthly "premium" like most Americans. It is paid via taxes collected by the government.

As for why drug companies invest in R&D when there is no profit motivation in Canada to do so? Well, that is because most drug companies are in America, where they can make profits to roll back into R&D, developing new drugs. Even a Canadian drug company could do that, so long as the US market is available to them. But if the US adopts a Canadian health care model (god I hope not), then drug R&D will be set back at least 20 years.

Personally, I think people are too quick to demand a prescription for their "ailments" today. It is all about a "wonder drug" to make them feel better. I had a headache the other day, and what cured it? A big glass of WATER! Yes, I was a little dehydrated, causing the headache. A Tylenol isn't going to make that better. But everybody's first response is "did you take something for it?"

[ehhhwik]

nothing is free, there was a news story not too long back, a pregnant mother had a baby in a city in B.C, in Canada, but its not considered as a major city, so they dont have any decent medical facilities, and her condition required specialized equipment and personale, which was over a yr wait and was 400 KM away, she was sent to a hospital in Seattle by our provincial gov't and they paid for everything

[scollins]

Originally Posted by ehhhwik

nothing is free, there was a news story not too long back, a pregnant mother had a baby in a city in B.C, in Canada, but its not considered as a major city, so they dont have any decent medical facilities, and her condition required specialized equipment and personale, which was over a yr wait and was 400 KM away, she was sent to a hospital in Seattle by our provincial gov't and they paid for everything

This is the kind of stuff that gets ignored by US politicians and citizens bleating about how "bad" the US health care system is, and how we need a model more like Canada or some European countries. I can't stand socialism, all it does is reward the lazy and incapable while penalizing the successful and motivated. And in the end, everyone loses.

[picus]

Originally Posted by scollins

"Free" should be in quotes. Canadians pay for health care, just not in a monthly "premium" like most Americans. It is paid via taxes collected by the government.

That was the first thing I said.

[Taittinger]

We cross the border for the drugs; they cross the border for the prescription.

[SE3P_to_E90]

Originally Posted by picus

Well there is a downside to it, too. Actually, believe it or not healthcare is debated more here than the US. It's the one political issue I can say is more talked about here. See, thing is our taxes are higher (duh), to help pay for this socialist health system. The issue is it is being overwhelmed in a big way, so the government has had to do a number of things like close hospitals, cut nursing jobs, put *caps* on doctors salaries, stop buying new equipment, etc. So the most common complaints are; the wait times are much too long, and the overall quality is worse.

FWIW, I completely agree. When I lived in SF I had Kaiser as an HMO. Now, it was expensive for sure, but the level of care was absolutely astonishingly good compared to what I grew up with. I could get in to see a Family Doctor in 24 hours. I could call specialists and get in in 4-5 days max. The facilities were amazing, tests were done quickly and well. But it was pricey.

Here in Canada, depending on where you live in can take weeks to get appointment. You need to be referred to specialists and that can take *months*, surgeries can literally takes *years*. All that, and the overall quality tends to be worse. Example, in 2003 my mom was diagnosed with breast cancer. In Southern Ontario there are two facilities for chemo/radiation (5.1 million people in Southern Ontario, btw). The waiting list was so long the government paid to have her sent to Buffalo every day for treatment. Every single Canadian has a story like this too. In amazes me really, that *every* person here has a horror story re: the health care system. But it's free.

Darn, that is a huge downside of it... i guess in this situation, this would be a perfect time to say that, "you get what you pay for"
I mean, it's great and all that the prices are kept low, but at the expense of your time and patience [as well as a quick remedy], it truly does pay to pay a little extra for the convenience and care.
Are there any private healthcare providers that you can pay for and go to? I'm assuming there is, yet again, you still have to wait for a little bit since everyone goes to the local hopsital, etc.

Originally Posted by scollins

"Free" should be in quotes. Canadians pay for health care, just not in a monthly "premium" like most Americans. It is paid via taxes collected by the government.

As for why drug companies invest in R&D when there is no profit motivation in Canada to do so? Well, that is because most drug companies are in America, where they can make profits to roll back into R&D, developing new drugs. Even a Canadian drug company could do that, so long as the US market is available to them. But if the US adopts a Canadian health care model (god I hope not), then drug R&D will be set back at least 20 years.

Personally, I think people are too quick to demand a prescription for their "ailments" today. It is all about a "wonder drug" to make them feel better. I had a headache the other day, and what cured it? A big glass of WATER! Yes, I was a little dehydrated, causing the headache. A Tylenol isn't going to make that better. But everybody's first response is "did you take something for it?"

I guess that's why America is America... we get great service, etc., but then, despite how great we have it, we have to find a way to complain about it.

Originally Posted by scollins

This is the kind of stuff that gets ignored by US politicians and citizens bleating about how "bad" the US health care system is, and how we need a model more like Canada or some European countries. I can't stand socialism, all it does is reward the lazy and incapable while penalizing the successful and motivated. And in the end, everyone loses.

Yea~ these are the types of things that definitely get overlooked. Yet again, once we bring up the Canadian model, americans will immediately overlook the comfort level of health care services in the US and immediately bark about how Canadians have it "free," etc.

[picus]

Originally Posted by SE3P_to_E90

Are there any private healthcare providers that you can pay for and go to? I'm assuming there is, yet again, you still have to wait for a little bit since everyone goes to the local hopsital, etc.

No. You can have insurance to cover you should you need an extended hospital stay, and of course prescriptions, but nothing that gets you into a "better" hospital or more quickly. Actually there was a landmark case in Quebec this year where a judge determined that it was legal for someone here to pay to have better care; so it sort of opened the door to a two tier system; paying for like an HMO and going to their hospitals. The problem with that, obviously, is that the rich would get good care and the poor would get crappy care. Now, I don't really have an issue with that because I spent 10 years in the U.S and am a capitalist SOB, but others here do have a problem with it.

[SE3P_to_E90]

Originally Posted by picus

No. You can have insurance to cover you should you need an extended hospital stay, and of course prescriptions, but nothing that gets you into a "better" hospital or more quickly. Actually there was a landmark case in Quebec this year where a judge determined that it was legal for someone here to pay to have better care; so it sort of opened the door to a two tier system; paying for like an HMO and going to their hospitals. The problem with that, obviously, is that the rich would get good care and the poor would get crappy care. Now, I don't really have an issue with that because I spent 10 years in the U.S and am a capitalist SOB, but others here do have a problem with it.

Capitalist ideals make the world go round...
Yet again, the problem i see with this better care is that, maybe later down the road, despite the "free" healthcare provided to the poor, if more and more people begin paying for "better" healthcare, Canadian healthcare systems will run almost identical to the US system.

The people who posted info on this enlightened me on the [non-obvious] aspects of Canadian healthcare. I had absolutely NO idea that Canadians had problems with delayed appointments, treatments, etc. It's great that you guys have much cheaper drugs and all, but if it's at the expense of convenience, well, that just takes all the benefits out of the "free" system.

I can't imagine going to a hospital and taking more than a day to treat a problem. I thought our system was slow, but wow, was i wrong.

Furthermore, it'll be hard to implement a "n-th"-tier health care system ~ because first and foremost, implementation and development of such programs and hospital would take awhile... and if regular local hopsitals adopted such a system, the "sick/injured" might throw a fit when someone with a much less significant ailment "cuts-the-line" and receives immediate treatment simply due to their wealth status.

All in all, thanks for the info guys!