[RM7]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

doesn't surprise me that chevy's answer to "higher performance" is adding more power and completely ignoring the weight problem in this car.

Their answer is also: stiffer chassis, better suspension, wider tires, wider track, etc.

Face it, americans are making good on the one thing that held their performance back for decades: Suspension and chassis.

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by swanson

I hear what you're saying, but to say it wasnt that hard to lose 200+lbs is undermining the work of the engineers. In todays auto world, cars are gaining weight all the time. To find a way to lose 200+lbs out of a big car like the camaro should be applauded. An estimated 38XXlb ZL1 with a superior chassis compared to the last gen and all the trickle down tech from the Corvette is a very formidable car that will surprise a lot of people.

weight reduction also comes with technology- carbon parts, smaller electronics, engineering of metals, etc.. you're right, it is the result of hard work from the engineers, but it is also just going to come with technology to some degree.
i just sort of roll my eyes when there is talk about the newer z28 came out how "bare bones" it was without a rado, a/c, cloth seats, minimal headlights, but it weighed 4,800 lbs.

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

Their answer is also: stiffer chassis, better suspension, wider tires, wider track, etc.

Face it, americans are making good on the one thing that held their performance back for decades: Suspension and chassis.

they are getting better for sure. i really dig what ford is doing- focusing on weight, suspension, and usable power to match. the camaro has a different formula in attempting to better their cars and it doesn't work as well.

[Never_Enough]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

i really dig what ford is doing- focusing on weight, suspension, and usable power to match. the camaro has a different formula in attempting to better their cars and it doesn't work as well.

What? The new SS beats the new GT. The 1LE will beat the GT350. hell, the old 1LE beat the shit out of ford & others.

[David70]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

the above was longer-winded than i anticipated, but what i'm trying to say is the camaro probably had much more weight to lose to begin with, and it probably wasn't that hard.

With I believe close to 200 hp more (maybe more than 200 hp) than the current M4 (I have never seen both of these cars run on the same dyno so going only by what the manufacturers tell us), and all of the parts needed to both use this hp reliably and stop it, then at the price range it will probably cost I don't this was simple.

As for the Ford vs. Chevy debate, it would take more than track numbers to make up my decision. Once reality sets in and you can get both for close to sticker I am guessing this car will cost a lot more, then the Ford's 8200 rpm out of a NA engine would be a plus and getting beat on a road course by a few seconds wouldn't make that much difference to me unless I start racing street cars on road courses for money.

[quagmire]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

i just sort of roll my eyes when there is talk about the newer z28 came out how "bare bones" it was without a rado, a/c, cloth seats, minimal headlights, but it weighed 4,800 lbs.

The 5th gen Z/28 weighed 3820 lb, not 4800 lb.....

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by OrangeZ06

What? The new SS beats the new GT. The 1LE will beat the GT350. hell, the old 1LE beat the shit out of ford & others.

i'm a little bit leery of single hotlap times done by professionals. the times don't lie, but i think for the average amateur like myself would have a much larger time gap between the same two cars. that would most likely be the car with less weight and more usable power. i just don't think it would be the car where the user would have to deal with the nightmare of ten gears and figuring out that cluster F of shift points.

Originally Posted by David70

With I believe close to 200 hp more (maybe more than 200 hp) than the current M4 (I have never seen both of these cars run on the same dyno so going only by what the manufacturers tell us), and all of the parts needed to both use this hp reliably and stop it, then at the price range it will probably cost I don't this was simple.

As for the Ford vs. Chevy debate, it would take more than track numbers to make up my decision. Once reality sets in and you can get both for close to sticker I am guessing this car will cost a lot more, then the Ford's 8200 rpm out of a NA engine would be a plus and getting beat on a road course by a few seconds wouldn't make that much difference to me unless I start racing street cars on road courses for money.

sadly, i'm not as enthusiastic as i used to be for the cars bmw is producing at the moment. everyone took a huge step up in power and bmw went modest on the m3/4, and not in an understated over-achiever way...

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by quagmire

The 5th gen Z/28 weighed 3820 lb, not 4800 lb.....

you're right, i know it isn't 4,800 lbs, too. i think i was thinking of the hellcat or something.

[Never_Enough]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

i'm a little bit leery of single hotlap times done by professionals. the times don't lie, but i think for the average amateur like myself would have a much larger time gap between the same two cars. that would most likely be the car with less weight and more usable power. i just don't think it would be the car where the user would have to deal with the nightmare of ten gears and figuring out that cluster F of shift points.



sadly, i'm not as enthusiastic as i used to be for the cars bmw is producing at the moment. everyone took a huge step up in power and bmw went modest on the m3/4, and not in an understated over-achiever way...

Well, if you want the lighter car w/more power, that is the new SS, not the new Mustang GT. I'm not sure what you are trying to say...

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by OrangeZ06

Well, if you want the lighter car w/more power, that is the new SS, not the new Mustang GT. I'm not sure what you are trying to say...

i spoke without familiarity of the upcoming camaro ss. looks like they are, in fact, lighter weight than the mustang gt. i made an errant assumption based on the husky outgoing model and fired from the hip. (after all, this is the internet)

i drove both the ss and the gt back in 2012. i was impressed by the mustang and hugely disappointed in the ss... so i think i still have a sour taste in my mouth from that experience.