[MaxL]

I am looking for a small, really small, roadster for a second vehicle. I need it primarily as a toy, to deliver what my 335xi cannot:

1. Open top
2. Small, light and nimble - yes, 335 feels big to me. 335 is perfect for longer trip with lots of ski or climbing gear. But moving two tons of metal just to get the 100 pounds of my wife to her dance course seems like a huge waste to me :-)
3. Exhilarating - again, 335 is great in allowing to drive precisely and safely at insane (for a North American driver at least) speed. But the biggest adrenaline rush comes from spotting speed traps, not from the actual driving. There is no drama all the way to triple digits. I need something that would allow me to enjoy driving without getting to jail
4. Good city fuel economy would be a plus, as it will be used as city errand/pleasure cruising car mostly

At this points my candidates are (in order of preference):
1. BMW Z2M (I know it does not exist, but I really WANT it).
2. Lotus Elise SC
3. Porsche Boxster S
4. Honda 2000
5. BMW Z4M
6. Mazda Miata (MX-5)

All cars seem like comprises to me though - Elise, which I really like on paper, is a bit too bare-bones and depreciates too quickly, plus if I decide to go to Canada (a possibility), I'll have to sell it as it's not importable. Also, I will have to buy it new, as there are no SCs made before 2008.

Porsche - at the upper limit of the "size" criterion and pricey with the options I'd like.

Honda - do not like the looks that much (too introverted), fuel economy is surprisingly poor for such a small car (not a major factor, though), not very enjoyable unless your are pushing it

Z4M - not feeling the looks, way too big, heavy and thirsty - actually not a big enough departure from 335 to justify a purchase as a fun car

Miata - severely underpowered

So, I'd probably be happy with a smaller, racier version of Z4, or a turbocharged miata or a smaller, more bare-bones boxster.

Anyway, am I overlooking any other alternatives? Also, my current ranking does not include ownership experience factor - can anyone speak to that?

Which car is more costly to own overall, which is more practical (in sense of maintenance/insurance/resale - I'm not intending to use this car for people/luggage hauling), which grows on you with time and which you get bored with withing weeks/month? This is something that neither specs not testdrives show, so I decided to ask...


Just few more details - I'm considering either new or slightly used car (still on warranty), and I will not use the car for long trips or in winter.

EDIT: I'm planning to actually buy the car between January and April of the next year, so there may be some new models in the picture?

[Crimson92]

what about the sky redline..its a cool little car....z4m is nice

[OBI_agent]

Originally Posted by Crimson92

what about the sky redline..its a cool little car....z4m is nice

+1..Op, you should test drive it....2.0T engine...heard great reviews about the engine...

[Hawkeye]

Originally Posted by MaxL

Z4M - not feeling the looks, way too big, heavy and thirsty - actually not a big enough departure from 335 to justify a purchase as a fun car

You have apparently never driven a Z4M. It is a total 180 from a 335.

[MaxL]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

You have apparently never driven a Z4M. It is a total 180 from a 335.

You are right - I only rode in it (not driving). I meant it is not different enough in terms of size and sense of speed (which is muted, compared to smaller/lighter cars). Also city fuel economy is about the same.

I'll ask my dealer for an extended test drive when I am in for my oil change, for sure. BTW, when is the update to Z4 coming?

[lyndon_h]

S2000. It is quick, gets great gas mileage (i averaged 26 mpg. It was a daily driver with very spirited driving included), very reliable and has the best shifter/tranny combination in any car at any price. You said that if you arent driving it hard, it no fun, but thats why the car has 6 gears. Keep in mind that i would pass any car on the highway in 6 gear, unless the car was intentionally trying not to let me over. In those situations, i would downshift in to 3rd gear at about 70mph and be off. I miss that car....

[x5love]

I wouldn't go for the S2000 or miata, I really don't like the looks (no offense to anyone).

I think the Porsche and BMW are your best bet. The Elise has always scared me in terms of safety.

Test drive the Z4M, it might change your mind. My sister got a Z4 3.0 loaner last month while her E93 335 was in the shop. She raved about it. Said the handling made the 335 feel like a boat. She also said that the acceleration was much more exciting in the Z4, even though it was a 3.0. She said you could really feel the engine unlike the big 335. Try test driving both the Z4 3.0 and the M and see if the 3.0 tickles your fancy at all.

As for the Boxter, I've never driven one but watched a comparo between it and the Z4M on top gear. They said the Boxter felt like a scalpel whereas the Z4 felt like a beast. I don't know if that type of really precise engineering and handling is as exciting as what you're looking for.

Go for some test drives. The new Z4 should be out in a year or two, the camo on the test mules is starting to come off pretty quickly. Also the Z2 is in the works, but will be at least 2 years away as there really aren't that many mules running around.

Good luck shopping!

[CATAHOULA]

Get a 2001 or 2002 M Roadster (Z3) used. Looks great still, better than the Z4 IMO, just as fast, and you'll save some $.

[epbrown]

Originally Posted by CATAHOULA

Get a 2001 or 2002 M Roadster (Z3) used. Looks great still, better than the Z4 IMO, just as fast, and you'll save some $.

I agree that the Z3M roadster is a great option, especially the S54-powered cars, but no way it's better than the Z4M. The Z4 chassis is MUCH better than the Z3, which was partially based on the E30.

[Corsis]

Originally Posted by MaxL

1. BMW Z2M (I know it does not exist, but I really WANT it).

So, I'd probably be happy with a smaller, racier version of Z4, or a turbocharged miata or a smaller, more bare-bones boxster.

From your words to gods ears. And by god i mean BMW GmBH


With the spyshots of the new Z4 coming out, and the fact its going to be a retractable hard top, it has me thinking the new BMW roadster is going to be quite another porker.

I really hope that the rumors of a small miata size roadster with 4cyl options comes to fruition. I will drop a deposit on one the very second its possible.

I dont think there is a car out there that i want more than a Z2 type car from BMW.

As for your options, i would get the miata. It has the least amount of power, but the car just feels perfect. Everything about it makes you completely forget the so called lack of power. Not to mention there is always after market mods.

i came close to buying a miata. I would throw on some mazdaspeed suspension parts and call it a day. Its cheap, fun and handles twisties like a dream, that IMO is all a roadster needs to be.

Now i just want BMW to build one as it seems you do too.

[Davin]

what about a mini convertible?

[FirstClass]

Get a used Elise. You don't need to get the SC. Used 05's can be had in the 30 range with relatively low miles, slap a Katana on it and go kick the ass of every other car you listed at the track. Much less depreciation that way. Though the bare-bones and wholly unrefined character of the car are something you love or hate.

[Year's_End]

The Z4M is godlike compared to the 335i in terms of driving enjoyment. It's completely different once you're behind the wheel. If practicality wasn't an issue, I'd be driving one of those instead.

It handles amazingly, doesn't feel heavy, doesn't feel all techno-laden, looks great (imo), and is frikn orgasmic to drive. It also sounds great too.

[MaxL]

Good discussion... I have scheduled an test-drive of Z4M for next saturday. Euro delivery in another reason to look at it more closely.

Another idea that crossed my mind is to get Pontiac Solstice Coupe and tune the heck out of it. It is relatively cheap, has flash tunes similar to Dinan, and suspension mods. also should be tack-friendly, as it is targa with hard roof available. I'll test-drive solstice GXP and will know if it is a good idea - I have not even seen the car.

Getting a used lotus elise and attaching a turbo would be another option, but I am too scared about their reliability and expensive repairs.

[FirstClass]

Originally Posted by MaxL

Getting a used lotus elise and attaching a turbo would be another option, but I am too scared about their reliability and expensive repairs.

Perhaps you're not aware of this, but the Elise uses a Toyota 2zz engine, the same one used in the Celica GTS. Reliability isn't an issue. (And I recommended a supercharger, not a turbo, though both are available for the car from different manufacturers)

[Couch]

I'd go for the Lotus.

[TSM330i]

I have driven a Lotus Elise and owned a Porsche Boxster.

The Elise feels different from ANYTHING you've ever driven before. The steering is not assisted and doesn't need it. The feedback from the steering makes everything else feel like a wet noodle. It is very apparent that the car is light weight and has got to be the purist driving experience (outside of an Ariel Atom - another idea).
Comparing to the Boxster and the Elise, the Boxster is a fantastic car. It is very involving like the Elise, even at slower speeds. With either car you don't have to be pushing the car at 10/10ths to feel rewarded for your driving. The Boxster was DEAD reliable. I owned it for 3 years (I purchased it used - a 2001 model). When I sold it, last week, it had 43K on it and everything worked perfectly. It also sold in less than a week and I got asking price. It also has two trunks that are pretty roomy (even though you don't care about that). Overall, it was a great car and I had a ton of fun in the car. You can get a roll-bar extension to do track days of you want. Check out Brey-Krause Auto for that.
The Solstice or Sky (I think the Sky looks nicer) is a great little car. Very solid, but a cheaper interior. The materials and not BMW quality, but you're not paying BMW prices either. There are a TON of aftermarket parts for these cars. I don't know what your budget is, but you may want to check out Mallett Cars Ltd. (http://www.mallettcars.com/solstice-conversion.htm) You can get a Solstice/Sky with up to 900hp! They do a standard conversion using the Corvette V8 engine and an upgraded suspension that will pull over 1g lateral. You can spend a fortune with Mallett, but it'll be fast and unique.
Lastly, DEFINITELY check out an Ariel Atom. You don't have to get the full-blown 300hp car to have fun. http://www.arielatomexperience.com/

[MaxL]

I imagine my wife (a researcher in a university) driving to work in Ariel Atom

Anyway, after I started scheduling test drives, my wife told me that she will be most probably working from home for quite a while (and I walk to work), so two cars will be quite an extravagance in this situation, especially considering that two of us put only 6K miles on the bimmer last year.

So I decided not to get the second car at least until either one of us needs to drive to work, and spend the money on stuff like performance driving school, AutoX and probably some high-end go-carting. So I may still end up driving something like Z4M or even Atom, but without owning it, which is probably more efficient for me for now.

[bubbletea 4 me]

s2k

[ChaneRZ]

i'd pick s2k.