[chassis]

The music doesn't stop for Dieselgate. States and counties may be allowed to seek compensation from VW. Mercedes started getting into legal hot water in the past 18 months on this topic, so it will be interesting to see if the states or counties seek damages from Mercedes as well.

https://www.reuters.com/legal/govern...ng-2021-08-31/

WASHINGTON, Aug 31 (Reuters) - Volkswagen AG (VOWG_p.DE) on Tuesday asked the U.S. Supreme Court to reverse an Ohio court ruling that cleared the way for the state to move forward with a lawsuit over its diesel emissions scandal and manipulation of emissions-control systems.

The German automaker previously asked the U.S. Supreme Court to review an appeals court ruling that said two counties could seek diesel-related financial penalties that could total billions of dollars. That request is pending.

In June, the Ohio Supreme Court ruled 6-1 that the federal Clean Air Act did not pre-empt state law-based claims that Ohio Attorney General Dave Yost is pursuing, or prohibit state oversight after a vehicle or engine is sold, as VW contends.

"This is a major decision that will ensure that Volkswagen can be held accountable," Yost said in June.



Earlier article:

https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...es-2021-06-29/


Yet another earlier article talking about counties in Florida and Utah seeking damages from VW:

https://www.reuters.com/business/env...se-2021-04-26/

[GoneIn4Secs]

So what is dieselgate in a nutshell?

[chassis]

VW cheated. VW was ordered by a court to pay lots of money.

MB cheated. MB was ordered by a court to pay some money. Less money than VW.

Bosch is the less visible but common denominator between VW and MB, as Bosch is the "technology supplier" for diesel fuel injection and emissions software and hardware.

The new twist is that states and counties are filing charges against VW. The original complaint against VW was filed by Federal agencies.

[DenverSteve]

Originally Posted by chassis

VW cheated. VW was ordered by a court to pay lots of money. MB cheated. MB was ordered by a court to pay some money. Less money than VW. .....

This. Don't cheat if you can't handle the heat when you're caught.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by chassis

VW cheated. VW was ordered by a court to pay lots of money.

MB cheated. MB was ordered by a court to pay some money. Less money than VW.

Bosch is the less visible but common denominator between VW and MB, as Bosch is the "technology supplier" for diesel fuel injection and emissions software and hardware.

The new twist is that states and counties are filing charges against VW. The original complaint against VW was filed by Federal agencies.

And it's all based on BS. In real terms, how are any of these States or Counties being harmed by VW's diesel emissions performance? To the tune of billions of dollars? It's just lawyers cashing in on a bunch of laws that have no real impact at this point.

[chassis]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

And it's all based on BS. In real terms, how are any of these States or Counties being harmed by VW's diesel emissions performance? To the tune of billions of dollars? It's just lawyers cashing in on a bunch of laws that have no real impact at this point.

It does have the feeling of double jeopardy.

[Efthreeoh]

Friend of mine picked up a low-mileage CPO VW Jetta Wagon in 2019 with a manual transmission. IIRC he paid around $14K for it. So it was one of the VW buybacks that was reprogrammed. I rode in it for the first time a few weeks ago. I was impressed by the speed it accelerated at; being diesel I thought it would be slow. Once out of warranty he plans on flashing it and putting a sport suspension in it. Overall MPG is around 40 all Northern VA suburban traffic.

He tried to convince me to get a similar sedan/wagon when VW had a lot of the buyback manuals in inventory. It wouldn't have been a bad choice, now that I've been in one.

Silver lining perhaps.

[Tacoma]

Originally Posted by chassis

It does have the feeling of double jeopardy.

I thought this as well but the Ohio courts appear to be drawing a very fine line saying the Clean Air Act did not pre-empt state law because it only applies to “new motor vehicles or new motor vehicle engines,” while the Ohio laws extend into used cars (through recalls and updates). Thus, if I'm interpreting this accurately, Ohio can pursue penalties against VW in relation to used cars driven in the State.

Notwithstanding that I agree that if you cheat you ought to pay the price, but then again, where does it end? Seems like a technicality to me to draw this line between new cars/engines and used cars/engines, and substantively it is the for the same crime (i.e., double jeopardy). I'm kind of siding with VW here. They already paid the price and it's déjà vu.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Friend of mine picked up a low-mileage CPO VW Jetta Wagon in 2019 with a manual transmission. IIRC he paid around $14K for it. So it was one of the VW buybacks that was reprogrammed.

I never paid attention to this, what was the buyback for. What was wrong with the car?

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by hellrotm

I never paid attention to this, what was the buyback for. What was wrong with the car?

It's a well documented recent part of automotive history; you can search the internet for the full story. But the short story is a group of engineering students at WVU discovered VW diesel cars had "test" software in the ECU that allowed the car to pass US EPA emissions testing, then once not under test, the ECU would switch the emissions profile to a setting that was not EPA compliant but provided better performance and enhanced fuel mileage. VW was fined by the EPA and forced to buy the cars back from owners because the owners couldn't register their vehicles in their respective states.

[chassis]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Friend of mine picked up a low-mileage CPO VW Jetta Wagon in 2019 with a manual transmission. IIRC he paid around $14K for it. So it was one of the VW buybacks that was reprogrammed. I rode in it for the first time a few weeks ago. I was impressed by the speed it accelerated at; being diesel I thought it would be slow. Once out of warranty he plans on flashing it and putting a sport suspension in it. Overall MPG is around 40 all Northern VA suburban traffic.

He tried to convince me to get a similar sedan/wagon when VW had a lot of the buyback manuals in inventory. It wouldn't have been a bad choice, now that I've been in one.

Silver lining perhaps.

Late model Touareg TDIs with lots of miles command good prices. Fuel economy is in the 30s for a mid-size SUV with 7,000 lbs towing capacity. It's an excellent vehicle. I ran a Touareg TDI for 238k miles, then sold it back to VW under Dieselgate for a handsome (to me) price.

Good acceleration and fuel economy for the Jetta TDI wagon is believable, the VW TDIs of the early 2000s and 20teens are the best diesels to come to the US market.

[chassis]

Originally Posted by hellrotm

I never paid attention to this, what was the buyback for. What was wrong with the car?

VW was caught by the EPA and CARB for cheating with software that "taught to the test" during emissions certifications. In actual customer usage, the vehicles did not comply with emissions regulations. VW paid billions of dollars for their transgression.

The latest twist is that states and counties are trying to cash in on VW's emissions cheating, through what appears to be a technical legal strategy.

MB had a class action settled against them for similar diesel emissions cheating with the garbage reliability Bluetec engines. The MB case was brought by a law firm on behalf of the class participants. The VW case was brought by the Federal government. The MB case in my view is a wink-wink, nudge-nudge situation, and the VW case was a punch in the mouth.

[ASAP]

Completely unrelated but VW related...
does anyone know why VW still sells the pathetic outdated Golf here in the USA? And frankly the pathetic Jetta and Passat?

Which are both different than the European models.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Completely unrelated but VW related...
does anyone know why VW still sells the pathetic outdated Golf here in the USA? And frankly the pathetic Jetta and Passat?

Which are both different than the European models.

Because they don't? The Mk7 went out of production in Germany over a year ago and the US Mk7 GTI ended production a few months ago. The Mk8 Golf isn't coming to the US, but the R and GTI return later this year.

Our Passat is terrible, but it's also being killed for the US market soon. The Jetta is old and tired though.