[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by shift@red

Thing is, BMW made that car to compete with Porsche and Ferrari. Its a full out effort on what is a brilliant chasis. They just came up very short on the performance end by comparison.
I dont think M division makes anything for just thrills and not outright performance.
They might be able to make a good mid engined car, but it still wont compare to what Porsche or Ferrari can make, CGT, 918 Spyder, etc.

I find that hard to believe. Do you have any marketing source, or some sort of statement that the car was built to compete against Porsche or Ferrari (Ferrari...really bro)? I recall watching BMW press videos saying that it was simply a clubracer for the hardcore M3 fans that wanted something more capable to take to the track without having to tow it back home. You're correct in saying it's a brilliant engineering exercise and the improvements upon the standard M3 chassis are noteworthy, but the base chassis is still a more practical coupe shape as opposed to a low-slung sports car, and the weight balance is still short of optimal for a high-strung performance car.

And M cars have always been about fun. They're fast, but they're more about sublime oversteer action than anything else.

I think BMW could come close to matching something coming out of Porsche and Ferrari if they were ever granted the chance to blow some R&D mula on a mid-engined chassis, but I don't know if that'll ever happen. They know how to engineer a proper suspension setup and make a FR perform nearly as well as a lot of MR/RR cars, and their engines are top-notch, so I don't see why they couldn't do well.

[Echo M3]

Originally Posted by OBI_agent

If you read my post a little more carefully, you will see that I have a similar point to yours. The part where I state ''are a special breed''is actually for Cayman, not for Carrera. I can see why you misunderstood me and I should have been more careful with my punctuation. If Cayman's sales number was way higher then Carrera, I bet Porsche would re think their strategy of producing underpowered Cayman but alas, this will never happen as 911 is just too iconic to Porsche and, shouldn't be outstaged by their own product. It would just be a simple case of bad business strategy.

Gotcha, I mis-read your post a bit. Apologies for that

I was trying to make the point that Porsche hasn't given Cayman the opportunity yet (by constantly neutering it). If they released a Cayman with performance specs on par with the 911 or 911s, we could gauge the popularity of the Cayman. Alas, that has yet to happen (and may never!)

[OBI_agent]

Originally Posted by pman10

Gotcha, I mis-read your post a bit. Apologies for that

I was trying to make the point that Porsche hasn't given Cayman the opportunity yet (by constantly neutering it). If they released a Cayman with performance specs on par with the 911 or 911s, we could gauge the popularity of the Cayman. Alas, that has yet to happen (and may never!)

If demand is there, I hope and assume Porsche will offer a low volume(1000 pieces) and high powered(400hp+) Caymans. But you got to look at it this way, the daddy of Cayman will never be able to match the top dog of 911 (turbo or GT3).

BTW, Rumors for the future 911 suggest that we might see a horizontal 4 turbo in a basic Carrera, so that Porsche can maintain emission standards. So a Cayman S might be able to beat its cheapest 911 cuzin after all. Again, all this is speculation.

[BMW269]

Yes the M3 GTS did fail, but that is the reason why there is the M3 EVO coming that will not fail. So with the M3 CSL Concept, that will unfortunately not go into production unlike it was the case with the last one that did.

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by Levi

Yes the M3 GTS did fail, but that is the reason why there is the M3 EVO coming that will not fail. So with the M3 CSL Concept, that will unfortunately not go into production unlike it was the case with the last one that did.

It failed in what way? If you can give a straight answer with sound logic I'll be impressed.

[BMW269]

It failed because of its very high price and low performance compared to the 911 GT3 (997). This was not the case with the M3 CSL vs the old 911 GT3.