[keylime503]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

Of course everyone is trying to save money, but there's saving money and then there's shopping every single dealership because you heard some Joe Blow on the forum got an amazing deal that you typically wouldn't get.

This is the fundamental problem. Why is Joe Blow privy to an "amazing deal" and I'm not? If everyone just paid the exact same price, people would have no reason to skip over their local mom and pop dealership for the massive bulk dealer 8 hours away.

And I'm not talking about stuff like college grad and loyalty/conquest factory incentives that some buyers qualify for. I'm talking about salesman 1 at dealership A saying he will sell me the car for $X when salesman 2 at dealership B is saying he will sell me *the exact same car* for $Y. It's the same car, but you're getting two different answers. That breeds consumer distrust. So if the salespeople on this site are bent up about us consumers going to other dealerships farther away, maybe they should take up their issue with the independent franchise dealership model instead which is specifically designed to force dealers to compete against each other while the manufacturer always wins.

[AESZ4]

Originally Posted by Jason

Updated with statement from BMW

Ultimate Delivery Experience Continues in SC as Sun Sets on European Delivery
European Program to Begin Phasing Out Operations in May

"As the global market has evolved and BMW NA sales volumes have shifted more heavily towards SAVs during the past several years, the Performance Center Delivery in Spartanburg, South Carolina has seen continuing growth. Since its beginning in 1999, Performance Center Delivery has grown to more than 28,000 vehicle deliveries, while European Delivery, which has delivered approximately 30,000 vehicles since the 1970s, has experienced a significant decline in participation. Although BMW NA has historically represented an average of 2,000 European Deliveries annually, such deliveries have declined in recent years to under 500. Based on these trends and long-term evaluation, BMW Group will end the European Delivery Program in 2020 and cease accepting reservations as of May 18, 2020.

Our delivery programs have always provided owners with the opportunity to expand their BMW ownership experience and while BMW Group is ending the European operation due to declining global demand, we are proud to continue offering the Ultimate Delivery Experience to our customers through the Performance Center in Spartanburg," said April Vigilante, department head, corporate & special sales, BMW NA. "We encourage all centers to leverage this exciting program to immerse customers in the culture of BMW at the Zentrum, explore the factory and experience the 'Ultimate Driving Machine' on the track."

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by elitex

I've tried it both ways. Tried to create a good working relationship with local CA's and they all got greedy. I even called my local Bmw CA and gave him plenty of opportunities to sell me more cars. I had already bought 3 M cars through him within 2 years.

Perfect example was when the new X5 launched. I wanted the X5 50i at 7% discount which is fairly standard. He started spouting off how the 50i's are rare blah blah blah. I made two calls, 1 to Houston and 1 to Chicago ( have family in both towns and visit there often) Both dealers offered 7% discount right over the phone plus any incentives. That was $6500 in discounts. So am I supposed to just leave over 6 grand on the table so some salesman doesn't think I am a bottom feeder????

Bottom line is that as consumers of course we're looking for great deals. As dealers, they're trying to make as much as they can from each and every deal. If a customer says do this or I'll walk then let them walk. There are plenty of dealers willing to make less on a deal just to move metal. Dealers can't complain about losing a deal at that point because that's what the dealer chose to do.

This is the definition of free market.

You, me and everyone has a right to look for a deal, but we've gone way past that in my opinion. No one is looking for deal, they're looking to show off to their friends and family that they "got the dealer". I'm not against trying to get the best deal possible especially if it's on the table, but when you start calling everyone in the city and then move out of state/province over $50.00 on a monthly payment you're not looking for a deal.

Trust me when I say this, if a dealer and their salesperson gives a take it or leave it proposition, I can almost guarantee you that they're not mulling over that deal. I can also guarantee that customer that leaves the deal is the one that would go on forums and tell everyone how bad that dealership is how they just lost a deal.

I'm not siding with anyone, this is my honest impartial observation working in the industry. Like I said, the whole industry needs a remodel of sorts.

[Murf993]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

You're talking about two different brands/tiers and clientele.

First, you can't even discuss discounts - none of the Porsche dealerships in the GTA (and surrounding area) will give you a discount. If you get anything, it's because they like you but discounts are generally not on the table.

Second, if you walk into a Porsche dealership, there's a high chance you're shopping for a Porsche, you're not cross shopping much of anything - dealership or brand/car.

None of those apply to BMW/Mercedes/Audi. You will get people who will walk into these dealerships, ask and beg for below cost deals and want monthly payments you typically get with a Honda.

Two different types of consumers.

Except the OP posted about BMW no longer offering European Delivery.....many of the responses have been strong disappointment. I am offering an alternate brand, which is superior in many ways and offers similar offerings albeit more sports car drivers experience oriented. So if you yearn for the ultimate driving experience it seems that BMW has lost their way.....so you can still do a European Delivery of a Porsche or Benz for that matter, buy a great German car and tick that box.....or buy a BMW or Kia because I'm afraid the Kia Stinger is cheaper and will spank most BMW's . Sorry.

[grl.racr]

really bummed! we were originally planning to do our first (!) ED trip for the m2c this September. But when everything hit and we saw the big lockdown in Italy, we backed out. I wouldn't even be comfortable traveling overseas now. We were hoping to delay to next May/June around EOP.. but I guess not now.. Not sure I will purchase another BMW.

[lax01]

Originally Posted by BMWCCA1

]. Porsche tried this decades ago when Peter Schultz was president. They wanted all on-line orders with factory-owned central distribution points and all dealers would simply be service dealers. Dealers refused and most state franchise laws prohibited it. Tesla started fresh with this model, without the service facilities. If that's a model you like, then more power to you.

I own over 20 BMWs and like the idea of still being able to walk into a local dealership and order a windshield for a 35-year-old BMW and get it the next day without paying shipping. That all goes away if dealerships don't survive.

Fine with me, after 44-years in the business, I'm done with it. BMW owners always joked the cheapest thing on a BMW motorcycle was the rider. Car owners know the cheapest thing on a BMW car is the nut behind the wheel. I just call it Wal-Marting of America. You get what you deserve.

Please. Let the car shopping experience go this route....online - direct - whatever - let me pick the options I want and let me see the price - stop with the games and negotiating tactics. Its old and tired.

Guess you haven't heard of this thing called Amazon....they ship for free and you (assuming we aren't in a pandemic) have better logistics and handling than having dealerships spread all over a city charging different prices and handing out different discounts to different customers.

Originally Posted by elitex

Spoken like a true salesman. If I can save thousands then I am saving thousands. Why would I pay more when I can pay less? Better service? Most sales people forget who you are the moment you walk out that door.

Bottom feeders? lol. Sounds like you're burned out.

I couldn't even get a car salesman to follow up with me about a M2C order I was interested in...they all want to call me on the phone. I know exactly what I want and don't want to play phone-tag. They give up and don't pursue.

Maybe its just the Los Angeles dealer network but its a constant pain in the ass to find a salesperson who actually wants your business. I tried going back to one random sales person who knew what he was doing and wanted to make a deal - but he left.

The dealership system is MAJORLY broken in this country....

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by elitex

Not sure about Toronto but I got 9% discounts on a new 911 GTS back in 2016.

Yeah those don't exist here. That might start to change as more Porsche dealers begin to open here in Ontario but as of right now, none of the dealerships are bending so you really can't shop Porsche dealers.

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by JCZ5

Can we keep a list of everyone who says they will not be buying a BMW the next go-around because of this? Would be interesting to see how many people actually follow up on that 1,2,3 years later.

Also, if someone has the funds and willingness to buy a Porsche, that should be the only option! BMW is appealing because of its price point + fun factor. Also why Miata's are so popular. Same concept of value at a certain price point.

I am very disappointed at this news as well because ED has been on my bucket list as well. And trust me, I'm the guy who will buy a car based solely on the ownership / buying experience. But for me personally, I'm not writing off BMW just yet. Also, they still have PCD, which was a fantastic experience and hopefully with this news, BMW will further improve PCD (mainly looking to improve the museum aspect at Spartensburg)

Like I said a few min ago. PCD is cool but it's no ED. Nothing like blasting out of the Welt onto the Autobahn at 150 miles an hour. For the record I think "break in" is bullshit. Ha

Many of us will move on from BMW. It's not an enthusiast brand any longer anyway. Just look at their portfolio. Sad.

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by Murf993

Except the OP posted about BMW no longer offering European Delivery.....many of the responses have been strong disappointment. I am offering an alternate brand, which is superior in many ways and offers similar offerings albeit more sports car drivers experience oriented. So if you yearn for the ultimate driving experience it seems that BMW has lost their way.....so you can still do a European Delivery of a Porsche or Benz for that matter, buy a great German car and tick that box.....or buy a BMW or Kia because I'm afraid the Kia Stinger is cheaper and will spank most BMW's . Sorry.

This is happening because it's not just one thing, it's a combination of factors. The car buyer today isn't the same as it once was. European Delivery only exists because it was made available during a time where people still had a connection with cars and was not seen as some consumable product.

Porsche and Mercedes may still offer it, but if Audi stopped it and now BMW, it's only a matter of time before Mercedes does too.

[JCZ5]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

You, me and everyone has a right to look for a deal, but we've gone way past that in my opinion. No one is looking for deal, they're looking to show off to their friends and family that they "got the dealer". I'm not against trying to get the best deal possible especially if it's on the table, but when you start calling everyone in the city and then move out of state/province over $50.00 on a monthly payment you're not looking for a deal.

Trust me when I say this, if a dealer and their salesperson gives a take it or leave it proposition, I can almost guarantee you that they're not mulling over that deal. I can also guarantee that customer that leaves the deal is the one that would go on forums and tell everyone how bad that dealership is how they just lost a deal.

I'm not siding with anyone, this is my honest impartial observation working in the industry. Like I said, the whole industry needs a remodel of sorts.

I hear what you're saying. But it's also very easy to email all the dealers asking them for the best possible discount and just chose the best one. And if one comes back $50 less, than why not jump on that one (as long as the distance to get the vehicle makes sense)

[M3Fahrer]

I'm hoping this is either Fake News, or it's a late April Fool's joke, or I'm just dreaming and I'll wake up and European Delivery wasn't canceled

[*bimmervibe]

Just a crazy idea, can we do a petition/letter to BMW asking them not to do this or give us at least a last chance?

Lets show BMW there are so many of us that are still interested in ED!

Saying now that they will grant it for orders until May 18 is giving no last change considering the current COVID lockdowns.

What about extension until next spring and if NA doesn't show a greater number of 500 orders than they were right to shut it down.

Let just ask for a final small window of opportunity!
Who is in?

[Murf993]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

This is happening because it's not just one thing, it's a combination of factors. The car buyer today isn't the same as it once was. European Delivery only exists because it was made available during a time where people still had a connection with cars and was not seen as some consumable product.

Porsche and Mercedes may still offer it, but if Audi stopped it and now BMW, it's only a matter of time before Mercedes does too.

Maybe, but if it's on a bucket list then you might have to switch brands......BMW isn't what it used to be....sorry.

[BMWrules7]

Originally Posted by Jason

Updated with statement from BMW

Ultimate Delivery Experience Continues in SC as Sun Sets on European Delivery
European Program to Begin Phasing Out Operations in May

"As the global market has evolved and BMW NA sales volumes have shifted more heavily towards SAVs during the past several years, the Performance Center Delivery in Spartanburg, South Carolina has seen continuing growth. Since its beginning in 1999, Performance Center Delivery has grown to more than 28,000 vehicle deliveries, while European Delivery, which has delivered approximately 30,000 vehicles since the 1970s, has experienced a significant decline in participation. Although BMW NA has historically represented an average of 2,000 European Deliveries annually, such deliveries have declined in recent years to under 500. Based on these trends and long-term evaluation, BMW Group will end the European Delivery Program in 2020 and cease accepting reservations as of May 18, 2020.

Our delivery programs have always provided owners with the opportunity to expand their BMW ownership experience and while BMW Group is ending the European operation due to declining global demand, we are proud to continue offering the Ultimate Delivery Experience to our customers through the Performance Center in Spartanburg," said April Vigilante, department head, corporate & special sales, BMW NA. "We encourage all centers to leverage this exciting program to immerse customers in the culture of BMW at the Zentrum, explore the factory and experience the 'Ultimate Driving Machine' on the track."

What a stupid, short sighted decision to stop European Delivery.

ED customers are BMW's loyalty royalty.

The only dumber decision I heard was BMW getting out of combustion engines.

It's all about the perception.

While only 500 people take part in ED, 5000 customers stay loyal to the brand with hopes to participate.

They don't call it a loss leader because you make huge profits.

[grl.racr]

Originally Posted by fanekstudio

Just a crazy idea, can we do a petition/letter to BMW asking them not to do this or give us at least a last chance?

Lets show BMW there are so many of us that are still interested in ED!

Saying now that they will grant it for orders until May 18 is giving no last change considering the current COVID lockdowns.

What about extension until next spring and if NA doesn't show a greater number of 500 orders than they were right to shut it down.

Let just ask for a final small window of opportunity!
Who is in?

100! really wish they gave more of a heads up for phasing it out. I'd love to do ED next spring.

[odiesback]

Originally Posted by ChrisK

Oh this sucks!

Glad I had a chance to do this my e92 M3.

Same here! Picked up mine in 2012!

So bummed out!

Was making plans for a second time in two years or so.

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by keylime503

This is the fundamental problem. Why is Joe Blow privy to an "amazing deal" and I'm not? If everyone just paid the exact same price, people would have no reason to skip over their local mom and pop dealership for the massive bulk dealer 8 hours away.

And I'm not talking about stuff like college grad and loyalty/conquest factory incentives that some buyers qualify for. I'm talking about salesman 1 at dealership A saying he will sell me the car for $X when salesman 2 at dealership B is saying he will sell me *the exact same car* for $Y. It's the same car, but you're getting two different answers. That breeds consumer distrust. So if the salespeople on this site are bent up about us consumers going to other dealerships farther away, maybe they should take up their issue with the independent franchise dealership model instead which is specifically designed to force dealers to compete against each other while the manufacturer always wins.

Because you really don't know everything about that car - as much you think every car is the same, they're not. You might be shopping between two M4's that are spec'd the same but one dealer is giving a huge discount. What you don't know is that the dealer that is giving you a discount had to buy that car from BMW for a promo in exchange for a huge discount.

There are various ways dealerships can receive cars outside of their required order banks and they may or may not have significant cost savings that they can pass on to their customers.

Going back to your first sentence, it's not that you're aren't privy to an amazing deal, you were just not there at the right place and time.

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by Murf993

Maybe, but if it's on a bucket list then you might have to switch brands......BMW isn't what it used to be....sorry.

You don't have to apologize. I'm not here to defend BMW nor make people stay loyal to BMW. If BMW isn't for you, it isn't for you. I've tried to move on to C43's and S5's and all I can say from my experience is the grass isn't always greener...

[JCZ5]

Originally Posted by BMWrules7

What a stupid, short sighted decision to stop European Delivery.

ED customers are BMW's loyalty royalty.

The only dumber decision I heard was BMW getting out of combustion engines.

It's all about the perception.

While only 500 people take part in ED, 5000 customers stay loyal to the brand with hopes to participate.

They don't call it a loss leader because you make huge profits.

BMW cancelling ED was not a quick or haste decision. They had many people working on various financial models to come to this conclusion. As much as we like to put ourselves on pedestals, we enthusiasts only make up a small fraction of sales.

You used 5000 as a marker for customers that may defect (first off, I don't think it will be that many, but let's still use this number). The X5 alone, sells a little bit under 5000 each month. With some months having higher sales that 5000. Total 2019 X5 sales was over 54,000. With the new X5, BMW sold almost 10000 more than the previous 2018 generation. So that's a net increase of 5000 individuals. Thus far, BMW knows what they're doing and it's actually improving their numbers, either with enthusiasts or not.

https://carsalesbase.com/us-bmw-x5/

BMW still builds fun and sport vehicles because they have enthusiasts running the company and passionate engineers. But even they realize increasing BMW market share and profitability is BMW's number one concern. After all, without growth and increased revenue, they would be out of a job.

[themnmd]

Major bummer

[Murf993]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

You don't have to apologize. I'm not here to defend BMW nor make people stay loyal to BMW. If BMW isn't for you, it isn't for you. I've tried to move on to C43's and S5's and all I can say from my experience is the grass isn't always greener...

there's still a couple of BMW's that appeal to me, but my overall BMW experience has been lacking.....if I wanted European Delivery there are still options, and frankly cars that have a bit more appeal.

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by JCZ5

I hear what you're saying. But it's also very easy to email all the dealers asking them for the best possible discount and just chose the best one. And if one comes back $50 less, than why not jump on that one (as long as the distance to get the vehicle makes sense)

You are 100% correct. This would be ok IF that's where it ends. I'm not talking about you specifically but people who do this, do you think they stop there? Getting to that $50 difference was only part one to weed out most dealerships. Now it's how to get that $50 off in monthly payment to $75. $100. I'm sure this is the same in every state that has multiple BMW dealerships. The auto industry is a very small place in that everyone knows everyone. While multiple BMW dealerships compete against each other, you also have friends that work in those different dealerships that talk to each other.

As I said earlier, the problem isn't looking for a deal, but we've got to a point where you're cross shopping for dollars to pennies in monthly payments. That is what BMWCCA1 was referring to.