[VRG_135]

Talking to my wife's cousin over Easter, he said his experience test driving a P Car was they are all boost, with lots to lag. He did not like the turbo engine. He tracks a 135 here in Dallas, so he seems to know what he is talking about.....

[Reach]

Some things are more than the sum of their parts. A proper Porsche is one of them.

First, for those commenting, the only Porsches worth the discussion are the 911 and Cayman/Boxster. Keep the SUV's out of it, they're SUVs.

For years now the 911 has had a similar spec to the M3, and yet out-performed it at the track. You could say the same about the Cayman/Boxster twins, they just flat out move when driven competently.

I've got an older 987S (3.4l) as a weekend car, and the way it turns and moves is something that just isn't matched by the BMW lineup.

I love my M3s over the years and I think they'll continue to be my primary car, but the respect for Porsche is deserved. I wish they were cheaper too, maybe I'd have a newer one, but I understand why they aren't.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by DrivenByE30

Basic Supply-Demand economic rule...

This.

If a product or service is overpriced, its manufacturer/vendor will fail to complete sufficient sales on it to be profitable, and be forced to either lower the price, discontinue the product, and/or fail as a business.

Since Porsche is able to sell its products with no problem and is thriving as a business, by definition, the products are not overpriced.

Now, are the products subject to artificial over-valuation? Perhaps. Such over-valuation if it exists, could be the result of consumers placing importance on qualities that are not intrinsic to the product's intended use, such as brand cache, and the effect such cache has on ones personal enjoyment from the product.

[lens]

Originally Posted by chillindrdude

That's a bit of a leap.

IMS bearing?

Cooling hose attachment?

Engine replacement?

Any of those ring a bell?

Don't get me wrong, I love PCars, and hopefully forsee a GTcar in my future, but I don't have any misconceptions.

[GATORB8]

Originally Posted by chaungo

The JD power survey has some faults though. It counts an issue with your nav (or even more minor like interior issues) the same as a catastrophic engine failure, and it only considers issues in the first three years of ownership.

[M4chiavellif82]

Originally Posted by chaungo

Yeah, overall Porsche is second to Lexus on the reliability chart. It won't leave you stranded, and you won't be afraid putting mileage on it like on BMWs.

oh snap. shit just got real yo. Poor-shay they say. hoo-hum hum

[48Laws]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

Cars are only worth what somebody is willing to pay for them.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Perhaps but materials do have a cost/value.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by Reach

First, for those commenting, the only Porsches worth the discussion are the 911 and Cayman/Boxster. Keep the SUV's out of it, they're SUVs.

Hear, hear -- especially when you can't even remember the name of it properly:

Cayenne: A variety of bell pepper popular as a hot spice when dried and ground, and a Porsche SUV

Cheyenne: The capital of Wyoming, a Chevy concept pickup truck, and NOT a Porsche SUV.

[Bbb34]

Originally Posted by ///M Ryder

I'll say this.....you don't get it until you actually own one. If you want to be king of the stop light races this ain't the car for you. If you are looking for driving dynamics, total mechanical engagement, and just smiles per mile, the P-Car will check all of those boxes and then some.

100% in agreement.
I always admired but haven't driven one until very recently when co-worker just handed me the keys and insisted on a very long test drive. Loved and had a grin on my face every minute of it.

Fully agree with others though, no such thing as overpriced cars, only those that sell and are in demand and those that don't.

[DC-T]

Just not a fan.

And the relationship to a Skoda I don't like. Like dating a hot girl who has a cousin who kills people. Sure it's not her, but then again...

[DC-T]

Originally Posted by GATORB8

The JD power survey has some faults though. It counts an issue with your nav (or even more minor like interior issues) the same as a catastrophic engine failure, and it only considers issues in the first three years of ownership.

Funny, Lexus sells so well in the US and you can't give them away here. Assumption is overpriced Corolla...

[TXSTYLE]

To answer your question OP... Yes, they are! Porsche on average makes $20k+ for every car sold making them tops among all mass produced auto makers.
I appreciate the brand and have driven several. But they are over priced IMO. But you know what they say about "supply and demand".

[///F80M3]

I only like the turbo and gt3, I prefer my m3 over the other models. There aren't any tracks around here so I prefer straight line acceleration. Puts a smile on my face every time I beat a 911 while stock. You should see their face when I pass them lol.

Now I have jb4 so forget it lol

[48Laws]

Originally Posted by TXSTYLE

To answer your question OP... Yes, they are! Porsche on average makes $20k+ for every car sold making them tops among all mass produced auto makers.
I appreciate the brand and have driven several. But they are over priced IMO. But you know what they say about "supply and demand".

True but misleading. Porsche is essentially a hedge fund.

[Z K]

I am in the camp of you got to drive to to know what it's like. It's not a drag racing car and they don't have big numbers. But get behind the wheel of one at a track or a nice twisty road and you will understand what makes them great.

I've been to many Porsche driving events and they are great cars. Caymans are a true driver's car. So it may be "entry level" and perhaps under powered on paper but it'll stick and have plenty of power to have a great time. If I had to choose a Cayman GTS or a F80 M3/M4, I'd choose the Cayman every time. The driving experience is so much better and probably faster around the track as well.

[dtwyim]

You need to drive one for extended period of time to understand whether it is worth it or not.

The other issue is the price of the options. 20-30k worth of options on the base price is very easy to do. 220 for colored wheel crest? 3000 for sport exhaust? 2000 for Nav? Sport Chrono? PTV? Bigger wheels? More leather on interior? 14 or 18 way seats? LED headlights? It all adds up quickly. Not many people custom order a 'stripped' base car, except GT cars, which hold their value exceptionally well. Most lot cars have a bit of options on them. When you are ready to drop 100+k on a car, 10-20k extra becomes less important.

Part of the reason why they are expensive. Grant it, options are not worth much when you sell.

Best value is few year old CPO coming off leases.

[DieGrüneHölle]

Originally Posted by ///F80M3

I only like the turbo and gt3, I prefer my m3 over the other models. There aren't any tracks around here so I prefer straight line acceleration. Puts a smile on my face every time I beat a 911 while stock. You should see their face when I pass them lol.

Now I have jb4 so forget it lol

Until you run a new turbo base 911's. Cobb will have a tune out shortly the base and S version.

In a couple years when CPO 991.2 911S are in $70k range. That will be the ticket. Straight line power and P-car driving dynamics.

Originally Posted by dtwyim

Best value is few year old CPO coming off leases.

Exactly, they usually have very low miles. Only new Porsche worth buying is the GT cars, since they hold their value.

[Never_Enough]

Every new car is overpriced. New car prices are out of control. How does anyone afford all these new cars? The majority of the American public is not ballin'

[Jbrock22]

Originally Posted by BuzzE46

as much as I love bmw , they are no where near reliable besides toyata lexus, Nissan, Honda etc

And they are not as boring as a Toyota, Lexus, Nissan or Honda etc.

[David70]

Originally Posted by TXSTYLE

To answer your question OP... Yes, they are! Porsche on average makes $20k+ for every car sold making them tops among all mass produced auto makers.
I appreciate the brand and have driven several. But they are over priced IMO. But you know what they say about "supply and demand".

Still don't agree. Back when they were really inefficient and making very little on each car (early 90's) they weren't a better deal then.

Using this logic on the car company making the least profit per car would have you believing Chrysler cars are the best value as they barely make any profit?

[Mavus]

Respect 911 but it's not for everybody. That weight balance is tricky business.

I prefer close to 50/50.

[overcoil]

Originally Posted by David70

Still don't agree. Back when they were really inefficient and making very little on each car (early 90's) they weren't a better deal then.

Using this logic on the car company making the least profit per car would have you believing Chrysler cars are the best value as they barely make any profit?

In the early nineties a 911 could easily have an MSRP over $70,000 but due to U.S. economy excellent discounts, $10,000 discount on ours. Also early nineties 911 were more craft manufacturing techniques. Sure a 911GT_ takes lots of custom hands on work but don't think the front fenders were formed by hand like on a 964. Porsche was assembling some Mercedes E500's and using Mercedes gearboxes in the automatic 928 - world was different back then.