[DCBmwMD]

The system has 15 not 16 speakers. There are woofers under the front seats. The subwoofer in in the cargo area. There is still Surround Sound I just don’t think it’s called Logic 7 anymore.

[EWL5]

Originally Posted by DCBmwMD

The system has 15 not 16 speakers. There are woofers under the front seats. The subwoofer in in the cargo area. There is still Surround Sound I just don’t think it’s called Logic 7 anymore.

The inclusion of a subwoofer makes it odd that the DM Sound review mentioned how hollow the sound was!

[RussB]

This is what the BMW USA site says. No mention of a sub in the back.

[DCBmwMD]

Originally Posted by RussB

This is what the BMW USA site says. No mention of a sub in the back.

Attachment 3612914

The BMW USA site is wrong. They copy and pasted from the G01. See my earlier post on this thread from the parts supplier. There is definitely a sub in the back

[DCBmwMD]

Originally Posted by DCBmwMD

The BMW USA site is wrong. They copy and pasted from the G01. See my earlier post on this thread from the parts supplier. There is definitely a sub in the back

[EWL5]

Originally Posted by DCBmwMD

The BMW USA site is wrong. They copy and pasted from the G01. See my earlier post on this thread from the parts supplier. There is definitely a sub in the back

The odd thing is that the UK site is usually correct for the HK description but also doesn't mention the SW!

[RussB]

Originally Posted by DCBmwMD

The BMW USA site is wrong. They copy and pasted from the G01. See my earlier post on this thread from the parts supplier. There is definitely a sub in the back

I see what the leebmann24 site says, but I have no idea if that web page is accurate for USA cars. The site lists no part numbers for any of the speaker components. The only part numbers I see are for mounting screws.

https://www.leebmann24.com/de/en/com...bwoofer-654143

Based on what DM Sound said in his review, I doubt there was an active sub in the back of the car he tested.

[DCBmwMD]

Originally Posted by RussB

I see what the leebmann24 site says, but I have no idea if that web page is accurate for USA cars. The site lists no part numbers for any of the speaker components. The only part numbers I see are for mounting screws.

https://www.leebmann24.com/de/en/component/separate-components-subwoofer-654143

Based on what DM Sound said in his review, I doubt there was an active sub in the back of the car he tested.

I’m in the US and I can assure you there is definitely a subwoofer in the trunk. I played some music with a lot of bass and opened the hatch. You can hear the bass and physically feel the subwoofer vibrations underneath the left cargo wall. It is quite noticeable. I was a little surprised at his review as I as well as others on this forum think the G45 Harmon Kardon is a much improved system

[avi66]

Originally Posted by DCBmwMD

I’m in the US and I can assure you there is definitely a subwoofer in the trunk. I played some music with a lot of bass and opened the hatch. You can hear the bass and physically feel the subwoofer vibrations underneath the left cargo wall. It is quite noticeable. I was a little surprised at his review as I as well as others on this forum think the G45 Harmon Kardon is a much improved system

Perceived sound quality is largely based on acquired taste, so what is "much improved" to one person may be "poor" to another.

The guy in the reviews appears to have compared many BMW models using the same content. Hence, he should have a reasonable baseline for comparison.

The review comments are also interesting given BMW marketing is using bigger 600w, 750w, 765w, take your pick but all meaningless, AMP output numbers. It marketing numbers don't appear to translate into what he perceived.

Given the cost-cutting evident elsewhere, it would not surprise me if the system audio employed in the G45 also suffered.

[EWL5]

Originally Posted by avi66

Perceived sound quality is largely based on acquired taste, so what is "much improved" to one person may be "poor" to another.

The guy in the reviews appears to have compared many BMW models using the same content. Hence, he should have a reasonable baseline for comparison.

The review comments are also interesting given BMW marketing is using bigger 600w, 750w, 765w, take your pick but all meaningless, AMP output numbers. It marketing numbers don't appear to translate into what he perceived.

Given the cost-cutting evident elsewhere, it would not surprise me if the system audio employed in the G45 also suffered.

Agreed. I've seen other reviews by him and he's fairly consistent in his grading of all systems, including high-end ones like B&W, Burmester 3D, etc.

[DCBmwMD]

Sound quality much like design taste is very subjective. What looks or sounds good to one person might not to the next. As a previous G01 owner with HK and current G45 owner with HK I can tell you that the new system is a vast improvement over the old one IMO. Since the B&W system is not available on the X3 I guess this is what we are left with. For an audiophile it will likely be lacking. For the general public that will buy this car it will be more than sufficient.

[avi66]

Originally Posted by EWL5

Agreed. I've seen other reviews by him and he's fairly consistent in his grading of all systems, including high-end ones like B&W, Burmester 3D, etc.

The danger with any new owner feedback is bias, so at least that shouldn’t be a factor with the review, as he seems to call it as it is from his experience across many cars with the same content. D for effort is damning.

[EWL5]

Originally Posted by avi66

The danger with any new owner feedback is bias, so at least that shouldn’t be a factor with the review, as he seems to call it as it is from his experience across many cars with the same content. D for effort is damning.

The other thing to recognize is that YTuber DM Sound is performing a service that very few car people want to take on: the subjective/objective critiquing of car audio! Even if audiophiles make up a tiny percentage of car buyers, Charlie is giving insight to the very LOUD minority!

[srekal34]

The issue I have with these reviews is that this guy is basically making stuff up, its all just subjective.
Without proper measurements of FR and Distortion there is no way to accurately review audio in a car.
Even comparing spotify with carplay and built in app in g01 is a huge difference in dynamics.

[Stockwell]

Originally Posted by srekal34

The issue I have with these reviews is that this guy is basically making stuff up, its all just subjective.
Without proper measurements of FR and Distortion there is no way to accurately review audio in a car.
Even comparing spotify with carplay and built in app in g01 is a huge difference in dynamics.

You are RIGHT on!!! in my G01 with HK, an iPhone source with Spotify or files via Bluetooth or plug-in cable make some difference. Without a proper equipment testing and just based on feeling/hearing, it is NOT a fair assessment??? No Audio review magazine article just use feeling to rate an Audio equipment, they all invest with some measurement tool. Check "savagegeese YouTube 5:21", he usually shared tool based measurements chart.

[avi66]

Originally Posted by srekal34

The issue I have with these reviews is that this guy is basically making stuff up, its all just subjective.
Without proper measurements of FR and Distortion there is no way to accurately review audio in a car.
Even comparing spotify with carplay and built in app in g01 is a huge difference in dynamics.

I’ve been down that rabbit hole having an had interest in audio for decades and being a member of AES. Having spent more than the cost of an X3 chasing this stuff, I concluded what what sounds good to my ears, sounds good, after looking at thousands of measurement graphs that look “ideal” but don’t sound good to my ears lol.

Maybe imperfection is why some prefer the characteristics of vinyl to more technically accurate digital recordings, and that’s subjective choice.

Meridian published some interesting stuff before much of this became ubiquitous to some degree. Analog Devices will sell you a chip and SDK to make your product look impressive on paper.

It’s worth remembering that the multichannel, multi speaker system used in BMW’s has much in common with home surround systems, but in a more hostile audio environment.

I still have this tech in use today, and the article is interesting - https://www.meridian-audio.info/publ...r%5B879%5D.pdf

[EWL5]

Originally Posted by avi66

It’s worth remembering that the multichannel, multi speaker system used in BMW’s has much in common with home surround systems, but in a more hostile audio environment.

I see it the other way around. The hostile environments are our individual living rooms that have various sizes, furniture, openings, carpet or no carpet, etc! At least with cars, the interior of an xDrive30 is going to be the same as the M50 and easier to plan around.

Having lived with a home theater AVR w/Dirac Live for over a year now, I've come to the realization that I don't prefer a reference flat frequency response! Instead, I've used a variation of the Harman curve that rolls off highs and accentuates mid-bass and lower! Wouldn't it be great if we could choose a flat or Harman curve, etc. at the "push of a button" in our cars w/o doing all the EQ stuff that most people don't bother with in a car anyway?

[avi66]

Originally Posted by EWL5

I see it the other way around. The hostile environments are our individual living rooms that have various sizes, furniture, openings, carpet or no carpet, etc! At least with cars, the interior of an xDrive30 is going to be the same as the M50 and easier to plan around.

Having lived with a home theater AVR w/Dirac Live for over a year now, I've come to the realization that I don't prefer a reference flat frequency response! Instead, I've used a variation of the Harman curve that rolls off highs and accentuates mid-bass and lower! Wouldn't it be great if we could choose a flat or Harman curve, etc. at the "push of a button" in our cars w/o doing all the EQ stuff that most people don't bother with in a car anyway?

Is the interior environment the same with 1 person as 5 people ? Trunk full or empty ? Sunroof blind open or closed ? Ambient noise levels i.e. engine, hvac, wind, road ? Plastic or fabric seat coverings ?

All of these thing affect frequency absorption, reflection, resonance etc

[EWL5]

Originally Posted by avi66

Is the interior environment the same with 1 person as 5 people ? Trunk full or empty ? Sunroof blind open or closed ? Ambient noise levels i.e. engine, hvac, wind, road ? Plastic or fabric seat coverings ?

All of these thing affect frequency absorption, reflection, resonance etc

If I'm an automaker, I would have a reference baseline where you do the car interior correction under the following conditions:

1) Sunroof closed
2) Trunk empty
3) 1 person in car (driver's seat since that is mandatory for a car)
4) As little ambient noise as possible

If you've ever done RC in your living room, instructions typically mandate as little ambient noise as possible: AC off, projector off (if normally used during movie), PC/laptop off if fan noise is loud, etc. Continuing your logic into the living room example, no one should be compelled to create a separate room correction slot for when:

1) One window is open
2) Books on coffee table vs no books
3) Kid's tricycle is in front of the SW

You make one reference RC and stick w/it except for major changes!

[avi66]

Originally Posted by EWL5

If I'm an automaker, I would have a reference baseline where you do the car interior correction under the following conditions:

1) Sunroof closed
2) Trunk empty
3) 1 person in car (driver's seat since that is mandatory for a car)
4) As little ambient noise as possible

If you've ever done RC in your living room, instructions typically mandate as little ambient noise as possible: AC off, projector off (if normally used during movie), PC/laptop off if fan noise is loud, etc. Continuing your logic into the living room example, no one should be compelled to create a separate room correction slot for when:

1) One window is open
2) Books on coffee table vs no books
3) Kid's tricycle is in front of the SW

You make one reference RC and stick w/it except for major changes!

What is the volume of your living room relative to an X3 interior volume ? How close are the speakers to the listeners ?

Typically the car volume is much smaller, hence the greater impact, and the speakers are inches away from bodies etc.

[EWL5]

Originally Posted by avi66

What is the volume of your living room relative to an X3 interior volume ? How close are the speakers to the listeners ?

Typically the car volume is much smaller, hence the greater impact, and the speakers are inches away from bodies etc.

Yes, everything is relative. That doesn't excuse BMW from making crappy audio. Elliot Scheiner had been doing a great job tuning the ELS audio system for Acura until they recently switched over to the arguably inferior B&O system!

We know good audio in a car is possible!

[avi66]

Originally Posted by EWL5

Yes, everything is relative. That doesn't excuse BMW from making crappy audio. Elliot Scheiner had been doing a great job tuning the ELS audio system for Acura until they recently switched over to the arguably inferior B&O system!

We know good audio in a car is possible!

There’s no excuse, the problem is how much effort goes in, cost, and if you like the “house” brand tuning. It’s also a challenge that there being no universal good.

Most manufactures abdicate auto audio to companies like Harman (owned by Samsung ) which also provides automotive audio system under numerous brands - https://car.harman.com/solutions/car-audio