[robbie_boy]

Originally Posted by entendu

My coworker has a pretty new S4, and it's fairly awesome. Pulls hard, and the seat shape and material really keep you planted. The electronics are fairly "gadgety" -- knobs and dials EVERYWHERE.

Is quattro worth the weight? I dunno, probably not here in California. Still a really fun car though, and the interior is top notch.

Well also coming from an Audi A4 to a 1er I would have to say that the quattro is AMAZING probally the best feature on the car. Living in Canada its amazing now Cali it would kinda be useless IMO.

I think the comparisons are there between classes you just have to look deeper into BMW because they have so many different models ex:
3 series as of 2007 and up
323i/325i/328i/330i/335i
Audi 4 series
A4/S4/RS4

Audi has 3/4/5/6/8/TT/Q
BMW has 1/3/5/6/7/Z/X
See where Audi has 3 at the most models per series BMW has 3+ and BMW also has coupes and sedans.Where Audi has mostly sedans


And I really don't think the R8 is a Lambo in Audi clothing. Look at the heart of the car the engine. Its a Audi built engine, same one that is in the RS6 although it does use the same R-tronic transmission as the Lambo. I feel all cars that are super cars borrow something from the competion. Such as the new nsx. Kinda looks like a R8 no??

Do I think one is better than the other?
No I think they are better at different things

Cheers,
Rob

[Impervious]

I see some major 458 influence in the NSX.

[bmw1racer]

Those Transformers front ends on the Acuras are hideous.

[__ivy__]

My car prior to my 128 vert was an A4.

I also currently own an E90 328, and previously had an E60 550, X3, and two E46en before that.

Here's my loose comparison between the A4 and the 328/128:

Audi plusses:
+ Crazy torque from the turbo 2.0. The car feels fast, and is quite fast.
+ Unflappable AWD to get that torque to the ground. 3 torsen differentials are the path to Nirvana.
+ More trunk room than the 328.
+ Very comfortable on long distances.
+ Awesome gas mileage (26-27 city vs. 22-23 city in my 1 or 3, on the same commute)
+ The "iDrive" interface was much more logical than my old E60, although that's not really saying much.

Audi Minuses:
- Vague, overboosted steering.
- Interior quality. Never have I seen so many well fitted, high quality parts put together in a way that looks like crap.
- Cheap leather, that looks worse than BMW leatherette.
- Vague, overboosted steering.
- Less rear seat room than the 328.
- The engine sounds like a 4-pot. It's sort of like driving a super-Civic.
- Soft suspension, that somehow delivers a harsher, less refined ride than the BMW.
- Vague, overboosted steering.

Overall, it was not a bad car. But I didn't get another one.

[RoundelM3]

Having owned a few VW/Audi products in the recent past, I will never, under any circumstances, ever own another one!

[audimotion]

I've owned 10 Audis so far. They are still my favorite car brand (besides Porsche). The interiors are the best IMO of all mass produced autos. BUT, due to their newer styles (besides the A5/S5), I do not care for any of them. That is why I strayed and bought a 1er (my 2nd BMW). So far I love the car, but do miss a little bit of the Audi's overall refinement. Some day....I'd love to own an R8.

[Bimmer-Bob]

Originally Posted by audimotion

BUT, due to their newer styles (besides the A5/S5), I do not care for any of them.

That's strange, I can hardly tell any of them apart. I'm serious - I think their styling has changed so incrementally over the last 15+ years that one just kind of blends into the next to me.

[bmw1racer]

Originally Posted by Bimmer-Bob

That's strange, I can hardly tell any of them apart. I'm serious - I think their styling has changed so incrementally over the last 15+ years that one just kind of blends into the next to me.

I really hate their current front ends... Looks like the maw of a whale shark, but not nearly as pretty.

[CrustyNoodle]

I currently have a 135i and an Audi Q5. Sure, they are hardly in the same segment but I'll compare anyhow.
Compared to the Q5, the 1er feels very cheap and under done. After driving the Q5 for a while, I find it hard to believe that the 1er could possibly be considered a luxury brand car - the Q just feels far more of a premium product and the build quality and overall finish put the poor 1er to shame. In saying that, I'm sure that if you were to compare the new X3 with the current 1er, then you'd come to the same conclusion.

But I didn't buy the 1er for its "premium" pretentions, i bought it for its understated performance - and I love it!

As someone else alluded, it's really horses for courses and depends a lot on the product life cycle at the time you buy. If I was looking to replace my current cars, I'd be looking very seriously at the new X3 to replace the Q5 and the new Audi RS3 (the 2.5lt 5 cylinder one) to replace the 135i.

[Jewbacca]

3 words...REAR WHEEL DRIVE!

I know the Quattro system is great, but in my neck of the woods, there's little reason to pay the extra coin for it and the standard FWD is for econoboxes, not driver-involved performance cars.

[lcrain]

I think they are both great car makers. I prefer BMW because of RWD, living in TX I have absolutely no need for AWD. So I guess I prefer BMW. I think Audi's styling is more subdued and neutral, which I don't necessarily think is a bad thing. I have been blown away by their bigger classes of cars (6/7/8) they are amazing looking cars inside and out and classy.

My last car was a VW GLI and if my BMW is as reliable as the VW was I will be elated. I drive it about 13k miles out of warranty and I spent $600 on maintenance. I am hoping the BMW ages better than the VW, particularly on the inside. The buttons on the stereo for the VW had vinyl on them and it started to peel which looked very cheap, and the headliner was coming off at the C pillar. Overall though I loved that car. It wasn't "fun" like my new 1M but it was reliable, practical and had enough excitement for daily driving situations (2.0t w/ GIAC).

Hard to compare my GLI to the 1M, completely different classes. But the 1M gives 10x more excitement every time I get behind the wheel. My brother has a TT-RS on order, scheduled to arrive in July I believe. He drove my 1M and after a brief stint of wanting a 1M he decided to get something different and ordered its rival. I am excited to see how they compare. That 5cylinder turbo sounds angry (he is coming from a volvo s60r, which had the exact same engine layout).

[BrokenVert]

Ive always thought that the R8 is sort of the spiritual successor to the M1.

Think about it. A collaboration between a German marque and Lamborghini. The M1 was a Lamborghini with a BMW engine and the R8 is a Lamborghini with an Audi engine (except for the V10 lifted from the Gallardo but im not talking about that now)




That being said, we dont get a lot of diesels in the states so the Audi tech that wins overall at Le Mans isnt a concern to me. Audi has more rally wins but the main competition for BMW has traditionally been MB.

check out the BTTC and DTM wars between the E30 M3 and MB (I think the 190 but not sure) for what I mean.

also I personally find Audi to be an awful company to be with. I nearly bought myself an Audi in 2008 and they treated me like I was an idiot and gave me a crap interest rate to boot. Went to BMW, got treated like a person and got a more expensive car for cheaper, not only on the monthlies but also overall!.

That being said id still take an RS4 over an M3 in a heartbeat. But that and the B5 S4 over a period 3 series would really be the only times that id personally choose Audi now.

[Black Prinz]

Originally Posted by sonicbimmer19

Hi guys,

All my life, I thought when it comes to performance, it was BMW or nothing. But lately I've heard people say Audi has better racing heritage because they won more 24 Hours of Le Mans (10 wins compared to BMW's 1 win) not to mention BMW does not have an answer to Audi R8. (doesn't matter if BMW CAN make a TRUE super car or not, the fact is we don't have one).

Broken Vert nailed it!

Unless your comparing turbo-diesel to turbo-diesel the LeMans argument fails.

Edit -

Almost forgot another knock on that Lemans argument LMP1 rules allow diesels to have significant displacement and airflow advantages versus otto-cycle powerplants, something the series has been trying to even out over the last couple of seasons.

[doublevanosrc]

Originally Posted by Impervious

I think Audi grows closer to overtaking BMW everyday unfortunately...

This^^

After driving the current F10 5 series it bolsters this statement.

I just wished BMW would ditch the runflats and add an LSD to its sporty entry level models like the 1 and 3. To me those are the models that really defy BMW as "the Ultimate Driving Machine".

[bmw1racer]

Originally Posted by doublevanosrc

To me those are the models that really defy BMW as "the Ultimate Driving Machine".

I think you mean "define," not "defy," huh?

And I don't buy into Impervious's statement one bit.

[Ash83]

Winning races is not the whole story.. Lamborghini does not participate in F1, does this make it a slow car???

Audi in the last 10 years spent so much money in rebuilding there brand and they did a good damn job..

I think it is a matter of preference.. both companies build great cars for normal drivers but if you want so street legal fun, I think the M3 is still undisputed champion.

[Guildenstern]

Originally Posted by Jewbacca

3 words...REAR WHEEL DRIVE!

I know the Quattro system is great, but in my neck of the woods, there's little reason to pay the extra coin for it and the standard FWD is for econoboxes, not driver-involved performance cars.

This has come up twice in this thread. You guys know the Quattro system (unlike the X-drive system) is a Performance AWD system? You get benefits out of it on dry roads. Now granted you have to be driving pretty hard, but Quattro (real quattro not the 4 motion system in the TT and the A3) allows you to get on power earlier in a turn allowing a quicker corner exit than you could get with RWD. Same as in the STI and the Evo. AWD cars like the Audi in touring car and such usually have weight handicaps to keep them even.

That being said, OP, Don't be a jock sniffer, try the cars and buy the one YOU enjoy driving the MOST. Not the one with the most wins, or the most racecars, the one you like the best.

Or, get a 911 cause those are pretty much the only TRUE race pedigree.

Halo cars are cool, but in the end unless you buy the Halo car it really doesn't matter. But that's coming form the guy that had M3 posters on his wall as a kid and not Lamborghinis and what not.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by sonicbimmer19

Hi guys,

All my life, I thought when it comes to performance, it was BMW or nothing. But lately I've heard people say Audi has better racing heritage because they won more 24 Hours of Le Mans (10 wins compared to BMW's 1 win) not to mention BMW does not have an answer to Audi R8. (doesn't matter if BMW CAN make a TRUE super car or not, the fact is we don't have one).

I know you can't really compare BMW's and Benz's because BMW focuses more on performance and Benz focuses more on comfortable ride and luxury.

As far as brand is concerned, I know Audi can't compete with BMW. But performance only, are Audi's really better cars than BMW's?
Maybe when you compare 3ers to A4, 5ers to A6, 7ers to A8, BMW are better but Audi has more higher end cars that BMW just can't compete with?

Any unbiased opinion on this subject would be greatly appreciated.

Audi, BMW, and MB all have their strong points.
As whole brands BMW tends to be the most fun or rewarding to drive.
MB tends toward luxury, and Audi mixes both nicely.

But, when you take it on an individual car vs car comparison things get a bit more muddled. MB makes some VERY powerful and fast cars, especially with the AMG division.
As well, Audi has some individual models that are bad ass, like the TT-RS, RS4, and R8.

BMW has the M division that refines some of the regular models like the 1M, M3, and M5.

But, MB and Audi are larger car companies and can afford to create more special models that BMW can't afford as they are a smaller company with a more limited number of offerings.
MB especially uses AMG all over the place with hand-built super engines, like the "Black" series.
Audi builds the R8 and lends and takes technology from Lamborghini, which is owned by VW/Audi, and VW/Audi are about 50% owners of Porsche. That merger should bring some Porsche tech to Audi, as they've used trans tech from Porsche before like the "tiptronic" automatic. And with Audi, Lamborghini's have really upped their models with better construction and nicer interiors.

Over all though, BMW's typically trend towards being drivers cars in their whole lineup and not just some of their models like Audi an MB.
Some say that BMW is softened their overall brand trying to appeal to a greater market share. But still, there is still plenty of BMW in modern BMW's to keep drivers happy. The 1 series is such a car, and the 1M was a smashing success. I just hope the new 2 series further refines what the 1 has been, and BMW don't grow it too much as they've done to their other models.

I've been hoping that BMW would make a 1 series sedan, but it's not likely for now. Audi though has beat them to it with the new A3 sedan, and it looks sweet, and will be on a new chassis. Audi has grew the A4 so big that they've lost sport sedan drivers who loved the previous A4's.
Now they will make up for it with the A3 sedan.
BMW missed the mark on that one. Even Cadillac sees the value of a smaller sport sedan with the new ATS, which used the E46 3 series as a benchmark. It's a great benchmark too, as the E46 was universally praised in being a very sporty sport sedan, not too small and not too big.
With the new 3 series it's even bigger, though still quite fun to drive.
But now BMW has a gaping hole as the 3 is too big and the new 2 will be a coupe, and BMW no longer has a sport sedan that fits in the size of that gaping hole. A 2 series based sport sedan surely can't be too far away.

Who's sportiest, who's best? It depends on what kind of car you want.
If you want a small sport coupe BMW has you covered.
Audi and MB not so much.
Still, every BMW still has that BMW driving magic, with certain models having more or less.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by Creps

As for the R8 don't forget that it's more of an Lambo then audi that's why they have it.
Maybe if BMW owned an exotic company they would have something in the same range.

Lambo's are as good as they are now due to Audi's involvement, and the new Lambo's will have a lot more Audi in them.
That will be good or bad depending on your point of view.
For me, if I had the money I'd get the R8 and have no desire for the Lambo.
I would consider an Aston Martin though.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by robbie_boy

Well also coming from an Audi A4 to a 1er I would have to say that the quattro is AMAZING probally the best feature on the car. Living in Canada its amazing now Cali it would kinda be useless IMO.

I think the comparisons are there between classes you just have to look deeper into BMW because they have so many different models ex:
3 series as of 2007 and up
323i/325i/328i/330i/335i
Audi 4 series
A4/S4/RS4

Audi has 3/4/5/6/8/TT/Q
BMW has 1/3/5/6/7/Z/X
See where Audi has 3 at the most models per series BMW has 3+ and BMW also has coupes and sedans.Where Audi has mostly sedans


And I really don't think the R8 is a Lambo in Audi clothing. Look at the heart of the car the engine. Its a Audi built engine, same one that is in the RS6 although it does use the same R-tronic transmission as the Lambo. I feel all cars that are super cars borrow something from the competion. Such as the new nsx. Kinda looks like a R8 no??

Do I think one is better than the other?
No I think they are better at different things

Cheers,
Rob

I don't see that BMW has more models. They have sedan and coupe variants of the 3 series, but Audi also has the A4/S4 to compete with the 3 sedan.
And they have the A5/S5 to compete with 3 series coupes.
Both brands cover this range pretty equally in terms of offerings.
The choices in N. America are different in the small car range with BMW 1 series coupes and Audi A3 hatchs.
That's going to change with the coming Audi A3 sedan, and likely no hatch. BMW is bringing a new 2 series coupe, but still won't bring the 1 series hatch.

Overall though, Audi is part of VW. And VW AG is a MUCH bigger company than BMW and offers a LOT more models all over the world.

[Shawnski]

Originally Posted by Jewbacca

3 words...REAR WHEEL DRIVE!

[cvandenhaute]

I think at the end of the day it strictly depends what we are looking for in a brand. I am no brand loyalist (except for Mazda since every one of their models are a blast to drive, including my practical all duty CX9) and I look in some specific features. I bought my 1er because it was one of the very few compact RWD fun to drive coupe on the market.

I believe Audi makes great cars, there is just none that appeal to me because most (in my price range at least) are NOT as fun to drive. I did cross shop the TT when I was looking for my current car and the lack of manual gearbox, 4 cylinder engine and overall bad weight distribution just killed it for me.

Now I am not excited to see where BMW is heading (heavier, bulkier, disparition of the NA straight six, electric power steering...), really not sure what I will buy when it will be time to replace the 1er...

Not sure if there is a real point to compare brands, models would be more appropriate and in this regard it is fairly difficult to compare the 1er to anything...