[brocklanders]

Bmw is not going down, the whole auto industry is. I was just watching motorweek and the new kia soul has 150hp and 150ftlbs, engines are so much better now then they ever were but unfortunately cars are so heavy they cant benefit from it. if I had 150hp in my 89 jetta gli , I would still own it. My 135 feels and looks small but it only weighs a couple hundred pounds less then my previous e90, frankly its bullshit, if they built cars in the 90's with the same specs as today none of use would be driving the cars of today. Are any of the regulations of today really benefiting anything or anyone, I'm not so sure.

[Saintor]

Originally Posted by stanlalee

Have you actually ever owned a high powered 2.0T? This is a Frankenturbo K04 hybrid

Uninterested. It will still sound like a 4-cyl.

[jaymesbry]

Times are changing,

Everyone is trying to adjust to the new model including BMW.

Look at all the things they have to deal with now:

People trying to find more ways to NOT drive than to drive, self parking/driving cars, MANDATORY back up cameras etc

Mandated fuel economy targets or pay the fun penalty

Kids would rather have a smartphone than their license

Fundamental shift between everything being mechanical to everything being controlled by software.

Thats why I got the 335i instead of a BRZ, probably the last car that will mechanically fail on me.. I bet my next car (Hopefully a Tesla) will probably have its problems solved by rebooting it.. Scared of the day that happens, but gotta accept it when it does!

[DF]

Be glad its not the 80s dudes. Performance was based on what kind of decals you had on the doors.

[M340i Pride]

Originally Posted by Patronus86

Who would have thought...a german car brand is outperforming another german car brand....what is the universe coming to?




$42,000 starting MSRP's, optional 6MT, a whole selection of performance options...that doesn't sound like 'catering to the masses' to me. It sounds like a car company that is catering to car buyers who have money to spend. BMW has always charged a premium. And the badge seems to attract buyers in many countries, not just China.

BMW used to crush their german counterparts in comparos for a long time. I remember reading from 90's all the way up to around 2009 that whenever there was a german comparo, BMW won by big margin. That's a long time of excellence over competition, not just one or two years. Fact is that BMW is losing ground like never before and as a BMW enthusiast its very alarming.

[Patronus86]

Originally Posted by bmwpride335i

BMW used to crush their german counterparts in comparos for a long time. I remember reading from 90's all the way up to around 2009 that whenever there was a german comparo, BMW won by big margin. That's a long time of excellence over competition, not just one or two years. Fact is that BMW is losing ground like never before and as a BMW enthusiast its very alarming.

Dude, most german cars have a reputation for being good performers. BMW has historically been considered the benchmark, but they aren't the only ones to produce good cars.

And what the hell does that mean, "BMW is losing ground like never before?" BMW put out the F30 series...it's not the best in its sector, but its not bad either. How can you pass judgement off of the average performance of one generation of car. This is why I think you are trolling. You make subjective an open-ended statements like these.

[litxus]

There are plenty of angles on this:

1) Maybe BMW "buyers" are getting older so they need "softer" ride instead of going for MB or similar.

2) Most new cars are just getting bigger and heavier, and no matter how much power you add, it is hard to mask the weight (maybe new crash regulations?).

3) BMWs were quite expensive in comparison to about 10 years back, but now they want to sell more, so making it cheaper makes sense for them in sales, which in turn cost savings have to come from somewhere.

4) Maybe enthusiasts is a dying breed, so they do not make enough sales numbers to justify satisfying them. Remember, most people are not, therefore no need to spend the money for benefit of a few. I have a cousin who works in marketing, and experts came up with best alcohol drink which all of them liked very much, but the kick is it failed miserably with regular people. The point is, experts / car magazine drivers are not regular people, therefore what they think is good might not = $$$.

[brocklanders]

Bmw is selling more cars then ever, it is evident they are selling out. I believe we as the enthusiasts are a big part of the fact they are the last independent car company, it wouldn't surprise me if they literally sold out to Volkswagon or Toyota in the future. I have an e82 and it will very likely be my last late model Bmw or any other make for that matter.

[M340i Pride]

Originally Posted by Patronus86

Dude, most german cars have a reputation for being good performers. BMW has historically been considered the benchmark, but they aren't the only ones to produce good cars.

And what the hell does that mean, "BMW is losing ground like never before?" BMW put out the F30 series...it's not the best in its sector, but its not bad either. How can you pass judgement off of the average performance of one generation of car. This is why I think you are trolling. You make subjective an open-ended statements like these.

keep saying trolling. I put what I wanted to put so if you don't like it, don't leave any msgs and move on! Why you wastin your time then? Its kool to discuss but you don't need to sh&^ on my thread dude. so get the hell out if you don't like it...

and you don't get it do you. 3 series were the PINNICLE of that sector. now its just not "bad." That's not 'losing ground'? so what the HELL do you mean?

[M340i Pride]

Originally Posted by litxus

There are plenty of angles on this:

1) Maybe BMW "buyers" are getting older so they need "softer" ride instead of going for MB or similar.

2) Most new cars are just getting bigger and heavier, and no matter how much power you add, it is hard to mask the weight (maybe new crash regulations?).

3) BMWs were quite expensive in comparison to about 10 years back, but now they want to sell more, so making it cheaper makes sense for them in sales, which in turn cost savings have to come from somewhere.

4) Maybe enthusiasts is a dying breed, so they do not make enough sales numbers to justify satisfying them. Remember, most people are not, therefore no need to spend the money for benefit of a few. I have a cousin who works in marketing, and experts came up with best alcohol drink which all of them liked very much, but the kick is it failed miserably with regular people. The point is, experts / car magazine drivers are not regular people, therefore what they think is good might not = $$$.

I think you hit it on the mark there...

[NEFARIOUS]

^ Exactly... For far too long, people have been driven by mainstreams and what people have been telling them to like. WTF are we coming to, communism? Words fail to describe the disappointment experienced when something is tuned to a mainstream market, like your favorite club shutting down for not playing enough mainstream "music" or your favorite item pulled off the menu for not enough demand, even worse when it's your diet's cheat day and you've been looking forward to it all week

With that said, I'm just going to hold onto my E90 for as long as I can and pray that BMW makes a return to the niche market or make some separate edition for the people that have come to love BMW for what it was.

[Eat.Sleep.Race]

I personally like both, but BMW to me is a more responsive car and the styling is much more aggressive. Screw the reviews, get the car you like! Not what the reviews like, twin turbo 6 is a way better platform, and RWD is much more fun than AWD!

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Patronus86

You should wait long enough for BMW to:
A) refine & improve the current F30 and F10 cars.
and/or
B) develop a new generation of cars with better performance. If neither happens within the near future (10 yrs in my book) then I'd agree BMW is on a downward path.
Everyone acknowledges the current 3 and 5 series cars are not the best right now. They've barely been out for a few years. So you have to let some time pass for BMW to rebound. Like I said before, everyone has ups and downs.




Ok, have fun with the ATS. Unless I was getting a M4 or M6, I probably wouldn't be buying a current generation BMW either. Just remember this is 1 generation of cars we are talking about here...BMW will put out newer cars within the next 7-9 yrs, they probably are already developing them. Be careful of judging BMW's future potential by referencing its current cars. These new cars could be horrible, they could be awesome, or they could mediocre, who knows?

Also, just about every car brand out there, including Audi and Mercedes, caters to the soccer mom or family crowd with utility or crossover vics...why? So they can make more money.

Well, my E90 has 245K on it; I don't have 7 - 9 years to wait. I have no interest in the F30. The F30 is mediocre; there are a bunch of cars that aren't.

[Saintor]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Well, my E90 has 245K on it; I don't have 7 - 9 years to wait. I have no interest in the F30. The F30 is mediocre; there are a bunch of cars that aren't.

That's unnecessarily harsh. I agree that the F30 is not up to expectations, but mediocre it is not. Even if the ATS 3.6 is a better driver, I still prefer a an S4 or even a 335i "customized" (read; improved). That would include a lowered suspension and other goodies.

[Patronus86]

Originally Posted by bmwpride335i

keep saying trolling. I put what I wanted to put so if you don't like it, don't leave any msgs and move on! Why you wastin your time then? Its kool to discuss but you don't need to sh&^ on my thread dude. so get the hell out if you don't like it...

and you don't get it do you. 3 series were the PINNICLE of that sector. now its just not "bad." That's not 'losing ground'? so what the HELL do you mean?

Three things:
1) If your posts are sincere, you should probably change your name.

2) It's spelled 'cool' not kool and 'pinnacle' not pinnicle. The response page spell checks for you, so why not use it?

3) I'm not calling you a troll because you dislike the current F30 series. In fact many on this forum, including myself, partly agree with your assessment that there is something lacking with the current generation. I called you a troll because you made vague and open-ended statements with no supporting evidence. Stuff like "BMW is losing ground" and "BMW is no longer crushing the other German brands." You're entitled to your opinion, but at least provide something that validates it.

If you had started your thread with 'I think the current BMW cars are under performing and here are the reasons why: electronic steering, one turbo, no change in horsepower, ect..' some may have disagreed with you, but at least you would have had a logical argument.

I'm sure you have specific reasons for why you dislike the current BMW's, but so far I haven't heard them.

Edit: So in closing, it seems you aren't really interested in discussing the shortcomings of the current F30 series, perceived or real, but rather you started this thread simply to announce that you don't like the series.

[M340i Pride]

Originally Posted by Patronus86

Three things:
1) If your posts are sincere, you should probably change your name.

2) It's spelled 'cool' not kool and 'pinnacle' not pinnicle. The response page spell checks for you, so why not use it?

3) I'm not calling you a troll because you dislike the current F30 series. In fact many on this forum, including myself, partly agree with your assessment that there is something lacking with the current generation. I called you a troll because you made vague and open-ended statements with no supporting evidence. Stuff like "BMW is losing ground" and "BMW is no longer crushing the other German brands." You're entitled to your opinion, but at least provide something that validates it.

If you had started your thread with 'I think the current BMW cars are under performing and here are the reasons why: electronic steering, one turbo, no change in horsepower, ect..' some may have disagreed with you, but at least you would have had a logical argument.

I'm sure you have specific reasons for why you dislike the current BMW's, but so far I haven't heard them.

Edit: So in closing, it seems you aren't really interested in discussing the shortcomings of the current F30 series, perceived or real, but rather you started this thread simply to announce that you don't like the series.

Like I said, if you don't like it just move on. Don't need you to crap on my post. open discussion is my intention, there is nothing wrong with it. if you have time to check my spelling then why don't you use that time to actually discuss something of value about the topic. that makes you the troll. trust me dude, EVERYONE would be pissed off with kind of attitude that you have / msgs that you leave behind... they will think you are just a prick who wants to piss off someone.

[Patronus86]

Originally Posted by bmwpride335i

if you have time to check my spelling then why don't you use that time to actually discuss something of value about the topic.

That's exactly why I respond to your posts...I'm hoping you will discuss something of value rather than rant about your dislike for certain cars.

But I think that is a lost cause at this point...so you win. I'll stop and you can return this thread to its original purpose....whatever that purpose was supposed to be.

[ScottMZ3]

While I still believe that BMWs are fantastic cars and are still at the top of their class (albeit by a smaller margin), there is one VERY BIG reason that BMW, and all other car makers, have been forced to scale back some of their true enthusiast underpinnings. You can thank the government for the following chart...



Midsize cars need to reach a ~54MPG average by 2025. In order to do that they are having to find new ways to squeeze as much as possible out of every gallon! And this unfortunately means losing some of the enthusiast traits we love (ie, hydraulic steering, V8s/V10s, etc) and ushering in smaller turbo engines. Also the increasing required safety features add to weight...so now we get heavier cars too!

Wish the government would stay out of this!! If some people want high MPG cars, fine let them buy them...the market will be there. If people want enthusiast cars that have lower MPG...so be it! We are the ones paying for the gas, let us pay damnit!

[M340i Pride]

Originally Posted by ScottMZ3

While I still believe that BMWs are fantastic cars and are still at the top of their class (albeit by a smaller margin), there is one VERY BIG reason that BMW, and all other car makers, have been forced to scale back some of their true enthusiast underpinnings. You can thank the government for the following chart...



Midsize cars need to reach a ~54MPG average by 2025. In order to do that they are having to find new ways to squeeze as much as possible out of every gallon! And this unfortunately means losing some of the enthusiast traits we love (ie, hydraulic steering, V8s/V10s, etc) and ushering in smaller turbo engines. Also the increasing required safety features add to weight...so now we get heavier cars too!

Wish the government would stay out of this!! If some people want high MPG cars, fine let them buy them...the market will be there. If people want enthusiast cars that have lower MPG...so be it! We are the ones paying for the gas, let us pay damnit!

wow 54mpg... sounds like every car is going to be a Prius! That sure is a dark out look.

[M340i Pride]

Originally Posted by Patronus86

That's exactly why I respond to your posts...I'm hoping you will discuss something of value rather than rant about your dislike for certain cars.

But I think that is a lost cause at this point...so you win. I'll stop and you can return this thread to its original purpose....whatever that purpose was supposed to be.

I am not disliking a certain car. I am just disappointed in BMW, a car that I idolized since 20 years ago getting bested by its rivals. Kind a like seeing your favorite team getting killed out there by someone who used to be killed for so long... Its not like I work for BMW so I cant change anything so only thing I can do is just putting it out there.

My love for BMW is (was) profound... I am sure you know that feeling. It had "soul" like no other cars out there, and it was apparent since my 1988 325i.

[ltruong15]

one thing I hate about audi is the shift knob how it has the button on the side.

[timboslice]

Going down whilst breaking their all time sales record in a month? Right...

As for the 4 banger turbo comments, this engine is faster than our old e92 328 in every single way AND delivers a ton more MPG. I don't see the problem here.