[jtodd_fl]

Originally Posted by Biorin

I gave a speech for a college course (with an extremely feminist teacher) on male standards in movies. My dad used to tell me it was wonderful to be a woman - you could be gentle and soft, or you could be kickass and fierce. You can laugh, you can cry, it's all okay. For men, he said, you're expected to be more of this singular standard of manliness with a defined range of emotion and actions. I tend to agree.

I agree with this whole-heartedly. While I have no issues with being hard, unlike my wayward child, Verbiage, I do agree that men get pigeonholed emotionally. It's funny, because there is a thread over in M3 post where they are beating up some dude for saying he would let his wife know he planned to spend money modding his car. He is a pussy and such since. So yeah, that is very real. The issues are complicated and run deep. I think on balance we men get an easier go of it though. After all, when a man does show his range of emotions in some contexts, he often characterized as brave. The sexually adventurous woman is always still just a whore. That is the scariest part of it for me raising a daughter. Anyone who does not admit we have a "rape culture" is just not paying attention. It may not be all doom and gloom, but there is some messed up shit that happens around sexual power imbalance. smh

Edit: Also curious how your "extremely feminist" professor responded to the speech.

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by jtodd_fl

I agree with this whole-heartedly. While I have no issues with being hard, unlike my wayward child, Verbiage, I do agree that men get pigeonholed emotionally. It's funny, because there is a thread over in M3 post where they are beating up some dude for saying he would let his wife know he planned to spend money modding his car. He is a pussy and such since. So yeah, that is very real. The issues are complicated and run deep. I think on balance we men get an easier go of it though. After all, when a man does show his range of emotions in some contexts, he often characterized as brave. The sexually adventurous woman is always still just a whore. That is the scariest part of it for me raising a daughter. Anyone who does not admit we have a "rape culture" is just not paying attention. It may not be all doom and gloom, but there is some messed up shit that happens around sexual power imbalance. smh

This.
In college it is horrible.

My daughter told me about a situation that could have turned our very poorly for her and it took every bit of self-control I had to sit cooly, listen, and then handle it through proper channels. And keep in mind, my daughter has serious martial arts training and is no shrinking violet. Rape culture in general and in certain places, in particular must be addressed by all MEN or it will never end.

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by jtodd_fl

His real struggle is being hard... but there is medication for that.

C'mon... you KNEW this was coming.

I used to sell it so...

[Verbiage]

Originally Posted by jtodd_fl

I agree with this whole-heartedly. While I have no issues with being hard, unlike my wayward child, Verbiage, I do agree that men get pigeonholed emotionally. It's funny, because there is a thread over in M3 post where they are beating up some dude for saying he would let his wife know he planned to spend money modding his car. He is a pussy and such since. So yeah, that is very real. The issues are complicated and run deep. I think on balance we men get an easier go of it though. After all, when a man does show his range of emotions in some contexts, he often characterized as brave. The sexually adventurous woman is always still just a whore. That is the scariest part of it for me raising a daughter. Anyone who does not admit we have a "rape culture" is just not paying attention. It may not be all doom and gloom, but there is some messed up shit that happens around sexual power imbalance. smh

Edit: Also curious how your "extremely feminist" professor responded to the speech.

I was wondering if she was going to include the professor's reaction. And ya know what.........

Originally Posted by MKSixer

This.
In college it is horrible.

My daughter told me about a situation that could have turned our very poorly for her and it took every bit of self-control I had to sit cooly, listen, and then handle it through proper channels. And keep in mind, my daughter has serious martial arts training and is no shrinking violet. Rape culture in general and in certain places, in particular must be addressed by all MEN or it will never end.

+1.

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by jtodd_fl

Interesting. I think this really mirrors my viewpoint. I really thing that it is the "softer" undermining of young women's self-confidence that has the most harmful effect. As you stated, very eloquently may I add, much of the societal imbalance is a matter of our biological evolution catching up to our societal revolution. I also share your views on affirmative action-style overcompensation. I do, however, think that unconscious bias is a real thing and we do need to hold people accountable when they fuck up. Thanks for this. I will likely share it with my daughter (printed out of course so no one can see my lecherous Internet persona!) When people stop using porn and photoshopped pop-cultural references as their standard for what women should be (and men, too, by the way - the male ones are just less crucifying) then we will all be better off.

I've been saying this shit for years and have several times been accused of being, for lack of a better term, a Beta Male. It's not a popular opinion amongst males. I've even had a female question me on my stance about porn being hugely damaging to our culture, but she's a bit of an anomaly.

I feel sorry for those guys who are a slave to it too. Just take the "Cool picture thread" which has now turned into "pictures of women i'll never hook up with or even meet in real life" thread. The damage goes both ways. Young women see a standard they'll never live up to. Young (or old) men crave a standard that 99.9% of women will never live up to. It's dangerous because people tend to not respect what they don't like or desire. When people lose respect for other people, they tend to lose respect for themselves. Resulting in other people's lives and life in general lacking value.

[Verbiage]

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

I've been saying this shit for years and have several times been accused of being, for lack of a better term, a Beta Male. It's not a popular opinion amongst males. I've even had a female question me on my stance about porn being hugely damaging to our culture, but she's a bit of an anomaly.

I feel sorry for those guys who are a slave to it too. Just take the "Cool picture thread" which has now turned into "pictures of women i'll never hook up with or even meet in real life" thread. The damage goes both ways. Young women see a standard they'll never live up to. Young (or old) men crave a standard that 99.9% of women will never live up to. It's dangerous because people tend to not respect what they don't like or desire. When people lose respect for other people, they tend to lose respect for themselves. Resulting in other people's lives and life in general lacking value.

For the record, Dad #3, I bumped the fap thread so the cool pictures thread could be restricted to cool pictures.

[jtodd_fl]

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

I've been saying this shit for years and have several times been accused of being, for lack of a better term, a Beta Male. It's not a popular opinion amongst males. I've even had a female question me on my stance about porn being hugely damaging to our culture, but she's a bit of an anomaly.

I feel sorry for those guys who are a slave to it too. Just take the "Cool picture thread" which has now turned into "pictures of women i'll never hook up with or even meet in real life" thread. The damage goes both ways. Young women see a standard they'll never live up to. Young (or old) men crave a standard that 99.9% of women will never live up to. It's dangerous because people tend to not respect what they don't like or desire. When people lose respect for other people, they tend to lose respect for themselves. Resulting in other people's lives and life in general lacking value.

Amen. I have always found the aggro, hyper-manly, "I have no feelings" thing to actually be the opposite of strength. People who think that sensitivity is a weakness miss the point, in my opinion. If someone is afraid to show any caring or "weakness", it makes me think they are afraid that there is nothing beneath the facade. Like idiots who won't admit they are wrong.... it's like, "what, if you are wrong, then this argument is all you have?"

[Biorin]

The porn thing is complicated. People need an outlet, but by our nature, it's going to evolve into something unrealistic to further the entertainment value. The sexual release is necessary and unavoidable, however. Even if you take all the fake boobs and makeup out and just go amateur, there will always be something better than you or who you're with. This is true for things other than sex, of course, so to me it seems like we need to focus on emphasizing who you are as a person rather than what you look like or what you own -- that's a problem that goes far beyond porn.

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by Biorin

The porn thing is complicated. People need an outlet, but by our nature, it's going to evolve into something unrealistic to further the entertainment value. The sexual release is necessary and unavoidable, however. Even if you take all the fake boobs and makeup out and just go amateur, there will always be something better than you or who you're with. This is true for things other than sex, of course, so to me it seems like we need to focus on emphasizing who you are as a person rather than what you look like or what you own -- that's a problem that goes far beyond porn.

There are lots of levels of porn and kids are being exposed to it from the moment their parents place a smartphone or iPod in their hands. It's hard to get people to focus on who they are and their value as a person when they are seeing the value of other women, in a large volume of porn, as being nothing more than a cum dumpster.

Clearly there are exemptions from the rule, but for the majority, men conditioned to this develop expectations. In return they treat women a certain way which conditions many of those women to believe their value is escalated by spreading their legs. More serous situations arise when a 19 year old guy who's been watching porn since age 12, progressing from threads in car internet forums, to girl on girl, on up to some more rough and forceful stuff, gets turned down by his date. This not making sense to him from all of his porn experience, he becomes frustrated. Maybe not that date or the next but maybe at some point he decides he should take matters into his own hands and show her that she really does want to have sex after all.

Porn is inevitable. And yes there is always someone faster, better looking, smarter, willing to do more, etc... getting someone to focus on who they are as a person rather than what they look like or what they own is much easier when their perceived self value is higher than the portrayed value of many women producing porn. I'm not saying that young women are watching porn and that's the problem. It's the young boys watching porn and treating women accordingly.

Few people have the ability to be as introspective as you are, let alone while at your age or younger. For the rest of the young people, their value is what society, media, internet, music, etc... tells them it is.

[Biorin]

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

There are lots of levels of porn and kids are being exposed to it from the moment their parents place a smartphone or iPod in their hands. It's hard to get people to focus on who they are and their value as a person when they are seeing the value of other women, in a large volume of porn, as being nothing more than a cum dumpster....

I don't disagree, per se, but I think this is a bit of the "slippery slope" argument. You're a big gun advocate, and I'm sure you often hear similar things said of children growing up seeing violent movies, or having their parents own guns. Sex, guns, marijuana, painkillers, video games, whatever you want to put there -- these things can have wonderful benefits if used properly, and can do terrible things to us if used improperly. They can be a trigger, but I think they are not (or rarely) the inherent cause. There are many who watch hours upon hours of porn, but still have enormous respect for women. There are people who enjoy being dominated/dominating in the bedroom, but it does not translate to poor treatment of their partner outside of that. No, I do not think all aspects of the porn/porn culture we have are perfect and desirable, but it's not to blame for innate ills.

[Verbiage]

Originally Posted by Biorin

I don't disagree, per se, but I think this is a bit of the "slippery slope" argument. You're a big gun advocate, and I'm sure you often hear similar things said of children growing up seeing violent movies, or having their parents own guns. Sex, guns, marijuana, painkillers, video games, whatever you want to put there -- these things can have wonderful benefits if used properly, and can do terrible things to us if used improperly. They can be a trigger, but I think they are not (or rarely) the inherent cause. There are many who watch hours upon hours of porn, but still have enormous respect for women. There are people who enjoy being dominated/dominating in the bedroom, but it does not translate to poor treatment of their partner outside of that. No, I do not think all aspects of the porn/porn culture we have are perfect and desirable, but it's not to blame for innate ills.

Where TF are all the women like Biorin wtf.

[Verbiage]

Uncle Ben always said, with great porn comes great responsibility. Or was it power? I forgot.

[Verbiage]

It's interesting also because pornography is categorized as "entertainment" before anything else, as it is its own sector in the film industry. Have you all ever heard of the movie "A Serbian Film"?

It's quite disturbing, and not meant for the weak stomached. However, it is an interesting take on the extortionist side of this industry and represents a small percentage of the worst case scenario that may occur behind closed doors.

I do agree with the notion that anything in excess can be considered unhealthy, and that these things exist mainly to solve one problem or another (pain, sexual tensions, pressure, etc; and not just referring to porn for the aforementioned); moderation and the ability to distinguish what is "excessive" depends on the context of the individual painting the picture. It is also subjective.

[Mr.SugarSkulls]

You already knew I liked you Biorin but after reading your initial response I've gained a new level of respect for you.

[Verbiage]

@jtodd_fl don't be underestimating the power of my brain I write my own posts dammit.

[Biorin]

Originally Posted by Mr.SugarSkulls

You already knew I liked you Biorin but after reading your initial response I've gained a new level of respect for you.

I feel like I should be handing out cookies to anyone who had to read that entire damn essay. I guess we're on Bimmerpost, so, free exhaust tips, whatever.

[Mr.SugarSkulls]

Originally Posted by Biorin

I feel like I should be handing out cookies to anyone who had to read that entire damn essay. I guess we're on Bimmerpost, so, free exhaust tips, whatever.

I'd appreciate a tune that won't fuck with the i8s engine instead...

I'm already missing the m6. I have a god damn problem, I swear.

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by Mr.SugarSkulls

You already knew I liked you Biorin but after reading your initial response I've gained a new level of respect for you.

This x 1,000.

Biorin
Your writing should be required reading for anyone about to reach puberty. It is insightful and completely realistic in addressing our needs as human beings.

[Verbiage]

Originally Posted by Mr.SugarSkulls

I'd appreciate a tune that won't fuck with the i8s engine instead...

I'm already missing the m6. I have a god damn problem, I swear.

Tune an i8? Isn't that like trying to upgrade Mac firmware or something?

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by Verbiage

Uncle Ben always said, with great porn comes great responsibility. Or was it power? I forgot.

The woodshed calls...

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by Mr.SugarSkulls

I'd appreciate a tune that won't fuck with the i8s engine instead...

I'm already missing the m6. I have a god damn problem, I swear.

This is not a problem...it's motivation!!

I told you to keep them both!!

[Mr.SugarSkulls]

Originally Posted by Verbiage

Tune an i8? Isn't that like trying to upgrade Mac firmware or something?

Yep...

I love the looks still. It's a beautiful piece of machinery. But the m6 is just SO much fun to drive. More so than the i8.

I'm afraid I might have to pull a MKSixer and just have both for me to shut up.