[jjl]

Originally Posted by Dinan_Rated

only Macan worth owning is the Turbo S, tried them all and hard to get me away from the M40i for it unless its the turbo s. That being Said I daily the X3mc so my speed needs are not the norm. enjoy it and hope you find it to fit your needs more then it did ours. Wife went back to the X3m40i

Don't want to threadjack here but Porsche doesn't make a Macan Turbo S, they used to make a Macan Turbo but no longer, the fastest Macan available is the GTS. I just took the Macan S for its first extended drive, and it flat out drives better than the M40i (not going to get into my reasons on this thread), and i LOVED the M40i. The M40i has many advantages over the Macan S, and the Macan S is showing its age, but there is no way I would trade back to the M40i. Like I said I will track the M50 reveal closely, it looks to be a great car.

[ND40oz]

Originally Posted by Equilibrandt

Why do we keep parroting the "lol huge, chunky X3, get an X5" sentiment? The base X5 will probably run at a similar price point to the X3 M50; these cars are not comparable.

Those who were in the market for a sporty G01 X3 M40i probably never even considered an equally-priced base X5 for a plethora of reasons, whether it be sportiness, usage of trunk space, leg room, engine offerings, etc. The X3 was never meant to have air suspension; that's reserved for the $75k+ X5 and onward, which is a drastically different SUV segment.

The current X3 would be a better vehicle with an available air suspension. My G05 on air is night and day compared to both my G01 M40i and F97 Comp.

Audi includes an air suspension in the $3k S Sport pack on the SQ5 which also includes the sport diff, pretty nice upgrade for the price.

[Jen4BMW]

Everyone who drives a G01 M40i knows the G45 M50 needs a short list of critical upgrades to be a smart upgrade over a G01 M40i or X4M:
1. Better seats
2. Air suspension
3. Traditional gauges and buttons
4. A killer new design that one ups the Macan

[snareman]

Originally Posted by Jen4BMW

Everyone who drives a G01 M40i knows the G45 M50 needs a short list of critical upgrades to be a smart upgrade over a G01 M40i or X4M:
1. Better seats
2. Air suspension
3. Traditional gauges and buttons
4. A killer new design that one ups the Macan

I'm fine with the seats although maybe the lumbar support would have been nice.

I've never had air suspension, but I assume it would be nice.

I love the LCD screen. I don't want analog gauges back. Buttons yes, but they are unfortunately a thing of the past, I guess unless you get a Volkswagen who is going back to them.

Killer design would be exciting although it looks like it's mostly just an evolutionary improvement.

[TC1856]

I was seriously considering a macan next year when my M40i lease ends. Now with the new designed macan being EV, it’s out. Sad because that design is amazing. I have both M40i and X5, the nimbleness of the lighter X3 is my favorite over the air suspension X5. It’s subjective but extra weight of the X5 is hard to overcome. X3 is a sweet spot and with air suspension and new seats will make it best daily driver ever. I like buttons like others, but the iDrive controller will be enough to keep me happy with interior.

[Xtabi]

Originally Posted by Jen4BMW

Everyone who drives a G01 M40i knows the G45 M50 needs a short list of critical upgrades to be a smart upgrade over a G01 M40i or X4M:
1. Better seats
2. Air suspension
3. Traditional gauges and buttons
4. A killer new design that one ups the Macan

4. Sadly we already know enough about the interior design of new X3 that it lags FAAAAAAR behind the new Macan. I think the new Macan interior is phenomenal. I don't want an EV or I'd be all over that car like white on rice!

Sooo new ice X3 it is for me.

[internalaudit]

I don't think any of these things, including air suspension or adaptive dampers, will make the M50 more capable than the Macan handling-wise but that already shows in terms of pricing here in Canada where a fully loaded M40i is probably just a few thousand dollars more than the Base Macan with a sprinkling of worthwhile (at least to me) options.

It has to do with size, suspension tuning, center of gravity and likely more. Front suspension alone with the unequal control arms on the Macan is probably already superior. That's only available on the X5 or 5 Series and up with BMW.

With Porsche being a separate public company, it seems it is getting far ahead of its German competitors WRT to repairs and vehicle pricing. If it was rock-solid reliable like Lexus, I probably wouldn't mind but last time I read, even the transfer case is an issue with most Macan, so much so that Porsche extended the warranty on that component.

Yeah, after realizing calendar aging takes front and center on these current state of the art batteries, I'm skipping BEVs until such time the warranties are longer or data points prove these batteries will easily last beyond 14 or 15 years. Also we backed out of our Macan 4 reservation finding out it is $17,000 CAD more than we expected, no PTV Plus is available on the base, and batteries really have not hit prime time yet.

We usually keep our cars for a long time and when my wife goes for this G45 X3, hopefully it won't be as bad an experience as some would purport over the internet haha. Definitely considering the seven year extended warranty if within the factory warranty period, many issues (especially potentially recurring ones) crop up.

[x3g01]

Originally Posted by ND40oz

The current X3 would be a better vehicle with an available air suspension. My G05 on air is night and day compared to both my G01 M40i and F97 Comp.

Audi includes an air suspension in the $3k S Sport pack on the SQ5 which also includes the sport diff, pretty nice upgrade for the price.

I would agree with this. I really hope all of the new G45's suspension options have a better ride quality. I have owned three G01 X3 30is, a model that supposedly has a more comfort-oriented suspension than the M40i. However, even after ditching the run-flats for Michelin PS4s, the ride is still pretty bouncy, especially at low speed, and even on small-ish 19 inch wheels. I wouldn't buy an EV now for my own car use case, but just out of curiosity I recently had a chance to drive a new 2024 Tesla Model 3, and I was surprised how much better the ride comfort and even quietness on a car that's only 39k new was compared to the current X3.

[internalaudit]

Wondering if anyone is cross-shopping the G45 vs. a Mercedes GLC or an Audi Q5, besides the Macan benchmark. There's the Alfa too lol.

I think the Mercedes interior with two display set up is a let down and the Q5 is FWD-biased.

Does that mean there's not too many choices for this sub-compact luxury segment that's RWD-biased?


My wife wanted a BMW, I convinced her to go for the Macan EV. After realizing how much more costly that is and whose battery is probably not as long-lived, cancelled and got our deposit back and definitely came back to BMW. The X5 is too costly and too big for us. We fit easily in our Accord coupe and CT200h hatchback.

Mercedes interior and even exterior are ho hum. Alfa, probably not going to be as reliable and Q5, FWD-biased, might as well go with Acura lol.

[Xtabi]

Originally Posted by internalaudit

Wondering if anyone is cross-shopping the G45 vs. a Mercedes GLC or an Audi Q5, besides the Macan benchmark. There's the Alfa too lol.

I think the Mercedes interior with two display set up is a let down and the Q5 is FWD-biased.

Does that mean there's not too many choices for this sub-compact luxury segment that's RWD-biased?


My wife wanted a BMW, I convinced her to go for the Macan EV. After realizing how much more costly that is and whose battery is probably not as long-lived, cancelled and got our deposit back and definitely came back to BMW. The X5 is too costly and too big for us. We fit easily in our Accord coupe and CT200h hatchback.

Mercedes interior and even exterior are ho hum. Alfa, probably not going to be as reliable and Q5, FWD-biased, might as well go with Acura lol.

I'm with you on all points until the end. Acura's are 0 fun. I've owned three. Currently have a 2024 MDX for the wife. I hate driving that thing. And my son has a 2024 CR-V which is close to an RDX....and hence X3....a big NOPE for me!

[EWL5]

Originally Posted by internalaudit

Wondering if anyone is cross-shopping the G45 vs. a Mercedes GLC or an Audi Q5, besides the Macan benchmark. There's the Alfa too lol.

I think the Mercedes interior with two display set up is a let down and the Q5 is FWD-biased.

Does that mean there's not too many choices for this sub-compact luxury segment that's RWD-biased?


My wife wanted a BMW, I convinced her to go for the Macan EV. After realizing how much more costly that is and whose battery is probably not as long-lived, cancelled and got our deposit back and definitely came back to BMW. The X5 is too costly and too big for us. We fit easily in our Accord coupe and CT200h hatchback.

Mercedes interior and even exterior are ho hum. Alfa, probably not going to be as reliable and Q5, FWD-biased, might as well go with Acura lol.

I would avoid getting a GLC. Mercedes still hasn't solved their 48V issues yet!

[Equilibrandt]

I feel like the constant up-playing of air suspension is often only coming from those who've never had it.

For a relatively medium change in ride feel, you increase the cost of suspension repairs astronomically. Since the X3 M40i is leagues ahead of the X3 in terms of suspension feel, I am at a loss as to why someone would choose a sportier X3 M40i and then try to opt luxury/non-sport suspension.

IMO, air suspension doesn't belong on anything sporty; it's made for a floaty, executive car or SUV. I don't think I'd ever spec air suspension even if it were a choice, after living through hydraulic/Magneride and seeing other air suspension replacement costs for simple, trivial things.

[Jen4BMW]

I’ve had (3) X3’s now and driven the Macan extensively (2 weeks ago) so I am coming at this with a real world vantage point like many others are.

The X3 is not as refined as the Macan with steel or AS. Not even close actually.

It’s unfortunate that BMW didn’t invest R&D dollars to develop an all new and improved suspension in the new G45. If they had they wouldn’t be bragging about a new steering system that nobody really asked for in the first place.

I for one was hoping they’d reverse engineer the Macan suspension and finally give Porsche a taste of their own medicine.

With this said AS might not be the answer for the G45 in retrospect. AS would just make the M sport suspension feel more like a X5 when the high point is really the Macan. Who knows maybe BMW is saving the best news for last but I am betting this isn’t the case.

My money is on another amazing power train, even more power, decent looks but still a sub par suspension. Oh yeah and we’ll be missing all our convenience buttons.

Yippie skippie!

[ND40oz]

Originally Posted by Equilibrandt

I feel like the constant up-playing of air suspension is often only coming from those who've never had it.

Or it could be you've never had a good air suspension.

Originally Posted by Equilibrandt

For a relatively medium change in ride feel, you increase the cost of suspension repairs astronomically. Since the X3 M40i is leagues ahead of the X3 in terms of suspension feel, I am at a loss as to why someone would choose a sportier X3 M40i and then try to opt luxury/non-sport suspension.

Medium change in ride feel? The air suspension does for the springs what adaptive dampers did for struts/shocks. They're tuneable and completely change the feel of the of vehicle. Keep it in comfort, it soaks up huge bumps but you still have a great driving feel you'd expect from a BMW. Put it in Sport or Sport+ and now you'll feel those bumps but it completely transforms the driving experience. Body roll decreases and road feel improves.

Originally Posted by Equilibrandt

IMO, air suspension doesn't belong on anything sporty; it's made for a floaty, executive car or SUV. I don't think I'd ever spec air suspension even if it were a choice, after living through hydraulic/Magneride and seeing other air suspension replacement costs for simple, trivial things.

And this is where I completely disagree with you. My F97 would be an even better vehicle with an air suspension. There's an expansion joint on a bridge I drive almost daily where I literally come out of my seat because of how stiff the suspension is even in comfort mode. On my G05 on air, even in Sport+ that doesn't happen and in comfort it's like a little bump. Even my F87CS in Sport+ handles that joint better. The air suspension is a game changer on these heavier vehicles.

[Equilibrandt]

Originally Posted by ND40oz

And this is where I completely disagree with you. My F97 would be an even better vehicle with an air suspension. There's an expansion joint on a bridge I drive almost daily where I literally come out of my seat because of how stiff the suspension is even in comfort mode. On my G05 on air, even in Sport+ that doesn't happen and in comfort it's like a little bump. Even my F87CS in Sport+ handles that joint better. The air suspension is a game changer on these heavier vehicles.

So when you state "heavier", you're lumping your F87CS into that mix? I, personally, wouldn't even blink if my M3 handled potholes and expansion joints poorly because that's what I signed up for; that isn't reason enough for me to require a more expensive suspension option. The X5 makes sense: it's a drastically heavier car, at an eye-watering price point in comparison to an X3.

Apparently this is a hotter topic than I ever thought; I appreciate your input! Intriguing that we can both derive instances where we completely disagree while owning similar cars with similar road hazards.

[ND40oz]

Originally Posted by Equilibrandt

So when you state "heavier", you're lumping your F87CS into that mix? I, personally, wouldn't even blink if my M3 handled potholes and expansion joints poorly because that's what I signed up for; that isn't reason enough for me to require a more expensive suspension option. The X5 makes sense: it's a drastically heavier car, at an eye-watering price point in comparison to an X3.

Apparently this is a hotter topic than I ever thought; I appreciate your input! Intriguing that we can both derive instances where we completely disagree while owning similar cars with similar road hazards.

No, I'm saying the F87CS is still relatively lightweight and doesn't need a ridiculously stiff suspension like the F97 has. It has hands down one of the best suspensions I've ever driven on a BMW. The problem is, as these vehicles increase in size and weight, to get them to handle like we expect an M car to, the suspensions get really stiff. An air suspension gives you the ability to change the spring rates for these vehicles, so when you want it really stiff, it's there but if you're just dropping the kids off at practice, they aren't flying out of their seats over an expansion joint.

I think my X5 only weighs around ~250 lbs more than my X3 based on the listed specs. I haven't had either weighed to see where they really land though. The other thing is, at least with the present gen, they're all the same CLAR based vehicles. It's not like they'd need to reinvent the wheel to slap an air suspension on them. That's not to say it wouldn't take additional work, but the baseline is already there.

[EWL5]

All this talk about air suspension is really baffling. I have it on my GLS450 and you can raise it up a notch or lower by 2 notches. Even when raised, once you past a certain speed (typically highway speed), the suspension lowers back to normal. The best use of this suspension is when you are just touring in the city at low speeds or need to lower the car for better access for what's in the trunk. In my mind, air suspensions are for comfort and touring, not really for sports car aspirations.

I think the M40i folks are really looking for something dynamic like Mercedes' E-Active Body Control (E-ABC). That's a technology that allows the car to hug the road, soak in bumps, and literally jump out of sand (anyone seen the twerking video)? In other words, it allows the car to be an athlete!

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...es-benz-e-abc/

The E-ABC comes at significant cost and you don't want to know about how much it costs to repair! IMHO, the X3 is not the platform to house such a technology!

[ND40oz]

Originally Posted by EWL5

All this talk about air suspension is really baffling. I have it on my GLS450 and you can raise it up a notch or lower by 2 notches. Even when raised, once you past a certain speed (typically highway speed), the suspension lowers back to normal. The best use of this suspension is when you are just touring in the city at low speeds or need to lower the car for better access for what's in the trunk. In my mind, air suspensions are for comfort and touring, not really for sports car aspirations.

It sounds like that's what Mercedes chose to do with their air suspension on the GLS, that's what their customers want apparently.

Originally Posted by EWL5

I think the M40i folks are really looking for something dynamic like Mercedes' E-Active Body Control (E-ABC). That's a technology that allows the car to hug the road, soak in bumps, and literally jump out of sand (anyone seen the twerking video)? In other words, it allows the car to be an athlete!

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...es-benz-e-abc/

The E-ABC comes at significant cost and you don't want to know about how much it costs to repair! IMHO, the X3 is not the platform to house such a technology!

BMW used to offer Adaptive Drive on the E70 and E71, it was expensive, added a ton of complexity but really changed the driving characteristics of the X5/X6.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/BEegeeAKiPc

I'm willing to bet a G45 has grown in size to almost match the E70 and it'll definitely cost more when comparably equipped. The E70 had an amazing drive though, it still had hydraulic steering and adaptive drive made it a lot of fun on the back roads.

[internalaudit]

^ At least to me, the M Sport Differential is probably enough to improve cornering and winter handling.

I've seen videos of many vehicles equipped with AWD and torque vectoring differential (not brake-based) perform decently well in winter driving conditions.

I am surprised so many used X3 M40is I inquired about don't come equipped with this $1,000 USD offering. That's making my wife lean more towards configuring her own G45 than buying used (save $10,000-20,000 at most on 2022 and newer) but not getting DAP or 2T4 (M Sport Differential).

It's standard equipment in the EU and the UK.

[ND40oz]

Originally Posted by internalaudit

^ At least to me, the M Sport Differential is probably enough to improve cornering and winter handling.

I've seen videos of many vehicles equipped with AWD and torque vectoring differential (not brake-based) perform decently well in winter driving conditions.

I am surprised so many used X3 M40is I inquired about don't come equipped with this $1,000 USD offering. That's making my wife lean more towards configuring her own G45 than buying used (save $10,000-20,000 at most) but not getting DAP or 2T4 (M Sport Differential).

It's standard equipment in the EU and the UK.

The M Differential wasn't even an option at first, I believe it was added for the '19 model year when the X4 was released. With the '18 we didn't even get the M Sport steering wheel because of an airbag issue.

[OUGrad05]

C&D talking about shit interior materials, that's a massive disappointment. I was really hoping for upgrades across the board. The current X3 is really good. The eDrive sounds like a great option and the M50 will be an excellent performance option but a better interior and better seats would a welcome change.

[EWL5]

Originally Posted by OUGrad05

C&D talking about shit interior materials, that's a massive disappointment. I was really hoping for upgrades across the board. The current X3 is really good. The eDrive sounds like a great option and the M50 will be an excellent performance option but a better interior and better seats would a welcome change.

Cost cutting across the industry continues. I am seriously considering getting away from luxury brands and opting for premium or mass market brands that offer decent performance. They're all trying to meet in the middle anyway when it comes to the interior but at least I'll feel better about not overpaying for plastic and hard touch surfaces!