[chassis]

Toyota Chairman Says “People Are Finally Seeing Reality” Of EVs
by Sebastien Bell

Toyota's chairman, Akio Toyoda, has long denied that electric vehicles are the only way forward for the automotive industry, and now that the segment's growth is slowing, he says he told us so

Akio Toyoda stepped down from his role as CEO of Toyota earlier this year, in the wake of questions over his leadership resulting from the company’s slow adoption of EVs. Now the company’s chairman, he says that slowing sales vindicate his resistance to EVs, and that “people are finally seeing reality” about the technology.

The CEO pointed to slowing growth in the U.S. as proof that his company’s reticence towards EVs was correct. “There are many ways to climb the mountain that is achieving carbon neutrality,” he told reporters at the Japan Mobility Show this week.

Although EV sales growth has slowed, the market is still growing. The Wall Street Journal reports that global sales of electric vehicles grew by 63 percent in 2022, and have slowed to 49 percent in 2023. That slowdown has affected the American market in particular, where automakers GM and Ford are considering slowing production of electric pickups.

Toyoda claimed that this is proof that “if regulations are created based on ideals, it is regular users who are the ones who suffer.” During his tenure as CEO, Toyota was ranked as the third most obstructive company towards government efforts to curb climate change, behind just ExxonMobil and Chevron. The World Health Organization reports that 3.6 billion people already live in areas susceptible to climate change and that the phenomenon will cause 250,000 additional deaths per year between 2030 and 2050.

However, it’s not just regulators who are pushing for electric vehicles, investors increasingly see the technology as the future, following the success of Tesla. Toyoda’s successor as CEO, Koji Sato, has made developing affordable EVs a priority and, at the Japan Mobility Show, the automaker showed a pair of upcoming all-electric concepts.

Toyoda said that concepts were the result of the automaker taking its time, though. He said that the company worked with battery makers, and thought hard about what was possible. He claimed that the Japanese automotive industry’s strength in the EV era will come from its decades of experience, and its past “experiences of failure.”

Toyota doesn’t have to look too far back to see an experience of failure in the EV space. The bZ4X was a first attempt for the brand that has fallen flat due to its disappointing battery range and specs. Fortunately, the automaker has been able to lean on its hybrid vehicles as a bridge into the electric era, which it claims is also the greenest way forward.

With Toyota’s head of North American sales saying that demand for hybrid vehicles is “smoking hot,” the company is now trying to produce as many as possible. Whether that’s a sign of the limits of the appeal of all-electric vehicles, a signal that buyers are reckoning with record-breaking vehicle prices, or something else remains to be seen.

https://www.carscoops.com/2023/10/to...eality-of-evs/

[Efthreeoh]

Retail sale prices of used EVs has tanked. Numerous people besides Mr. Toyoda knew EV sucked too.

[XutvJet]

Akio Toyoda saw the writing on the wall years ago and I 100% agree with him. Finally the European automakers are waking up to "all in" EV debacle and the US automakers are catching on too.

I'm more of a liberal leaning person and of all things, an environmental consultant, and even I am extremely bothered by the idealism of the US and EU governments and environmental groups to force this EV BS onto the public. I'm very glad the EV reckoning happened much quicker than I figured it would. It's not realistic, is largely a farce, and is not obtainable. Protecting the environment should be paramount for government, business, and private individuals, but all this dumping your eggs into one basket is mind boggling and dumb. But sadly, not surprising.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

The forest was shrinking, but the Trees kept voting for the Axe, for the Axe was clever and convinced the Trees that because his handle was made of wood, he was one of them.

Price less!

[nicholasn]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Akio Toyoda saw the writing on the wall years ago and I 100% agree with him. Finally the European automakers are waking up to "all in" EV debacle and the US automakers are catching on too.

I'm more of a liberal leaning person and of all things, an environmental consultant, and even I am extremely bothered by the idealism of the US and EU governments and environmental groups to force this EV BS onto the public. I'm very glad the EV reckoning happened much quicker than I figured it would. It's not realistic, is largely a farce, and is not obtainable. Protecting the environment should be paramount for government, business, and private individuals, but all this dumping your eggs into one basket is mind boggling and dumb. But sadly, not surprising.

I've heard it said that EVs are not being pushed the save the planet, they're being pushed to save the auto industry.

Investing in more sustainable methods of transportation and development will be much more impactful than pretending to care about the environment by shoving EVs down everyone's throats. Younger generations are increasingly preferring to live in urban areas where they can walk/bike/Uber around to their destinations, and are generally uninterested in cars. Also a lot of growing evidence pointing to the downsides of car-based lifestyles especially if that comes on top of sitting at a desk all day.

And besides. Whether you're driving an ICE or electric car, having to battle traffic everywhere you go sucks. But for most, driving is the ONLY feasible way to get anywhere.

[x3sm]

I hope no one here truly thinks that EV is being pushed to save the planet from carbon gas. When the rest of the world starts catching up to the guy on top, it’s time to switch things around to remain on top.. humanity has to leap forward, with that comes investments and economic opportunity.

[Socal_R8]

LOL...cuz they make a shitty EV

Meanwhile Tesla has become one of the best selling cars in the world....


I still love my ICE cars, but it is nice not paying $6 a gallon and stomping all the Chargers, Mustangs and anything else that try to test me in my M3P at stop lights

[Efthreeoh]

AI is so boring...

[BGM-M3COMP]

To put in simple terms.

“We can’t catch tesla so we’re giving up”.

Like I said no one is catching tesla. Once Elon decides to partner up with car makers that matter it’ll be game over at rapid speed.

Holy shit era still on schedule!! Tesla already partnered with BP. This is the beginning!!

[domacuratl]

People really believe electric cars are the future but are failing to realize that electric cars were invented before gasoline powered cars. Electric cars were emerging in the 1830s and gasoline powered cars in 1886. IMHO, I think going electric is going backwards. There are other technologies out there that vehicles can run on like water, ammonia which Toyota has been working on, hydrogen and Porsche which they been working on a synthetic fuel. Electric cars have way too many cons and they could be an inconvenience in that it requires way too many accommodations to be even feasible.

[G MONEY]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

To put in simple terms.

“We can’t catch tesla so we’re giving up”.

Like I said no one is catching tesla. Once Elon decides to partner up with car makers that matter it’ll be game over at rapid speed.

Holy shit era still on schedule!! Tesla already partnered with BP. This is the beginning!!

Yawn

[RM7]

Originally Posted by domacuratl

People really believe electric cars are the future but are failing to realize that electric cars were invented before gasoline powered cars. Electric cars were emerging in the 1830s and gasoline powered cars in 1886. IMHO, I think going electric is going backwards. There are other technologies out there that vehicles can run on like water, ammonia which Toyota has been working on, hydrogen and Porsche which they been working on a synthetic fuel. Electric cars have way too many cons and they could be an inconvenience in that it requires way too many accommodations to be even feasible.

Yet, they are out there working every day for people. That's really the thing. They were never practical for any application, up until Tesla made that happen. Now they are every-day, you'll see many out on the road just doing their thing, silently, day after day, like a diesel passenger car (of which there aren't very many by the % numbers). It's growing every year because it is practical for a very large % of the population. Not for everyone, at least not until some significant issues are mitigated, but that doesn't mean that it's not already here and working great. Diesel px cars aren't for everyone either. The great thing about electricity is that it doesn't care where the power comes from, hydroelectric, nuclear, thermal, gas-turbine, etc. That really frees up a lot of resources that would have to be trucking and carrying fuels all over the place constantly to end-locations like gas stations and so on.

[Donatello.]

Originally Posted by nicholasn

I've heard it said that EVs are not being pushed the save the planet, they're being pushed to save the auto industry.

Investing in more sustainable methods of transportation and development will be much more impactful than pretending to care about the environment by shoving EVs down everyone's throats. Younger generations are increasingly preferring to live in urban areas where they can walk/bike/Uber around to their destinations, and are generally uninterested in cars. Also a lot of growing evidence pointing to the downsides of car-based lifestyles especially if that comes on top of sitting at a desk all day.

And besides. Whether you're driving an ICE or electric car, having to battle traffic everywhere you go sucks. But for most, driving is the ONLY feasible way to get anywhere.

If they truly wanted to save the auto industry, they would stop the massive overpricing of everything

[Donatello.]

Originally Posted by x3sm

I hope no one here truly thinks that EV is being pushed to save the planet from carbon gas. When the rest of the world starts catching up to the guy on top, it’s time to switch things around to remain on top.. humanity has to leap forward, with that comes investments and economic opportunity.

Like everything else, they are being pushed for profit aka more greed...

[crAbb]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Retail sale prices of used EVs has tanked. Numerous people besides Mr. Toyoda knew EV sucked too.

Can we please be clear. EVs don't save the environment. A recent study by Volvo on their own EVs, concludes you'd need to own one seven years before it's less environmentally damaging than an equivalent ICE powered vehicle.

McKinsey consulting in a recent report, concluded that net zero 2050 will cost $278 trillion (in today's prices). Or, in other words, create the largest business opportunity since the industrial revolution.

Follow the money. Ask yourself, who pays for the politicians to get elected?

[chassis]

Car companies are bleeding their way (profit-wise) into a hoped-for EV future. Ford last quarter lost $1.3b in the EV division which works out to approx $33k per vehicle loss. EV pricing and sales volumes are softening.

A question is whether car companies have enough blood in the body to continue bleeding before the bloodmobile arrives, which is the hoped-for EV age. Or will they staunch their own bleeding and embrace either a dual-fuel world or retrench back to an ICE landscape?

https://shareholder.ford.com/Investo...rterly-results

[Donatello.]

Originally Posted by chassis

Car companies are bleeding their way (profit-wise) into a hoped-for EV future. Ford last quarter lost $1.3b in the EV division which works out to approx $33k per vehicle loss. EV pricing and sales volumes are softening.

A question is whether car companies have enough blood in the body to continue bleeding before the bloodmobile arrives, which is the hoped-for EV age. Or will they staunch their own bleeding and embrace either a dual-fuel world or retrench back to an ICE landscape?

https://shareholder.ford.com/Investo...rterly-results

Dodge has back pedaled now.

https://www.hagerty.com/media/news/r...h-gas-engines/

[Housekeeping]

I’d buy another Tesla, currently have a ‘22 Model S Plaid before any German car. I have three M cars and will take the Tesla before any, it’s just better, faster, more fun. I find most EV hating people either can’t afford an EV or haven’t driven the right one.

[No one]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

I am extremely bothered by the idealism of the US and EU governments and environmental groups to force this EV BS onto the public.

It's not idealism, of course. They are dumb and ignorant, what they care about is power and money. The simpler an idea is the easier it is to push it onto the public. Any popular idea will work for them as it gives them what they want.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Sy1616

I’d buy another Tesla, currently have a ‘22 Model S Plaid before any German car. I have three M cars and will take the Tesla before any, it’s just better, faster, more fun. I find most EV hating people either can’t afford an EV or haven’t driven the right one.

I find it hard to believe that any real car person that wants an engaging driving experience will find an EV able to scratch that itch. Yes, EVs can be wildly quick, but there's way more to performance and the driving experience than just acceleration which is about the only performance metric an EV is good at. Yeah, you can make an EV handle all right with a lot of work, but there's no getting around all the weight and general sensory deprivation.

I'm not an EV hater and I've driven a few Teslas and could easily buy a Plaid, but I'd MUCH rather have lighter and engaging and fun to drive cars that feel alive.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by Sy1616

I’d buy another Tesla, currently have a ‘22 Model S Plaid before any German car. I have three M cars and will take the Tesla before any, it’s just better, faster, more fun. I find most EV hating people either can’t afford an EV or haven’t driven the right one.

Completely with you on getting another Plaid. I’m highly highly likely to get another S Plaid over another M.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by Sy1616

I find most EV hating people either can’t afford an EV or haven’t driven the right one.

I can afford almost any EV our there but I care too much about the environment to even think about owning one or even driving one. Second my company sells LiPo batteries so I know how dam dangerous they are and I choose to not temp fate. So that leaves only the speed thing. As a adult I always keep my need for speed off the public roads and on the track. If beating a new Vette to the next traffic light is what gets you off, that is just sad.