Careers and job hopping

BMW F22 · 08-30-2012, 03:05 PM

I would ask the current work for a raise. If they dont give you one then go with the new job. I would hate to do the rizzo method that people use on cars on a job. That's just going to be weird for both sides. It's like you'd only stay for the money.

JoeyO · 08-30-2012, 08:49 PM

Be aware that recruiters are working for your new employer. Not for you. I find 99% of them to be slimeballs. On the hierarchal chart of salespeople, they're a step below used car salespeople.

You do what's right for you and not for your recruiter. That's bull that he needs to know an answer by an exact hour. It's a pressure tactic he probably picked up when he sold used Pontiac Aztecs.

Comet · 08-31-2012, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BabyrayS2k

LOL at this crazy post. WTH are you talking about? I owe my company an honest day's work for an honest day's pay. That is it. Nothing more. There is no loyalty between company and employee in today's world.

And the OP owes his boss and company NOTHING. The OP is worth more in the market because of his work ethic and he applied himself at his current job. He doesn't owe them shit.

^ this is what is wrong with today's job market
the "I only owe you what you pay me, and if it isn't in my job description you can go shove it! also, you're not my supervisor so shove it! and shove it because shove it!" attitude

A person that jumps ship the second anyone offers them a 10% raise is not good work ethic. Like I said, eventually you just end up looking like a flake that can't keep a job, and as someone else said, people will eventually peg you as "that guy". Let us not forget the fact that he wants to blackmail his current employers to meet a new job offer. How does that make his work ethic good enough to make him worth MORE in the market. Burning bridges left and right

Also, is he putting them down in his CV? also, perhaps the head hunters are after him because of the opportunity his CURRENT employers gave him. Somewhere, he does owe them, and there is nothing wrong with that.
If all you see them giving you is money, then you are very narrow minded and will never make it far.
People who chase the quick buck never make it big time. Let that be a lesson to you, son. (and you're probably older than me)

Hawkeye · 08-31-2012, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smyles

In case of perm. positions this is incorrect: recruiters get onetime 'finders' fee.

That is how it is in my industry as well. May be different for IT, recruiters will not touch anyone with under 5 years experience in my industry because they get about 50% of placement salary as their one time finders fee so it is not worth their time to place lower people and not worth it for the company to pay a finders fee on an entry level employee.

Bobble · 08-31-2012, 11:47 AM

The recruiter is pushing because she wants her comission on the books, she'll get her piece once you are in place, pure and simple she wants her money. I know a fair amount of recruiters in So Cal after 30 years in IT. I will take a contract from anyone if I need it but if I'm looking the list is really short, sorry if this offends but 85% of them suck and will be selling something else in 5 years.
DDK632 nailed the types of workers in IT today, be person two if you expect to survive this industry for any length of time in a technical path, if in a management path pick a company and stay there.
Honestly if you accept the offer do not do the counter offer thing you will piss off both your current employer by subjecting them to the pressure, the propsective employer and the recruiter. If you piss off the later two believe people remember and have no problem trashing others if it benefits them.
Good luck move on for the better compensation and make sure yuor skill set gets advanced, and big prominent projects come your way.

Crypty · 08-31-2012, 03:05 PM

So today I accepted the new job!

Yesterday after meeting with my 2 bosses they tried very hard to get me to stay by matching and coaxing me with growth opportunity to move up and lead the development team. It sounded good at the time and I was receptive to the idea but I had some time to think through the night and most of this morning.

The fact of the matter is, my department (and I) was suffering here for two reasons. One, the nature of the business is we create custom software for clients as they dictate. Many of these need ongoing long term support and I was the guy who had to do that for 9, 10, 11... live pieces of software at this point. The other reason is that management staffed our team with cheap inexperienced workers. We're all in our early-mid 20s, and only myself and one (as of today ex) co-worker has any real dev skills. Managing a team of developers is something that interests me greatly, but not this team.

On top of all that, and this is a point many of you have made, I felt like to take a counter and "possibly" a greater role would feel like twisting arms, and I did not want to be like that and have that bad vibe around the office.

I had to fight the recruiter woman every step of the way, but in the end, she was indeed just a car salesman-like flunkie trying to make her dollar. I blew off all 4 of her deadlines for a decision, DEMANDED she send me the written offer, and accepted when I was good and ready.

Very happy right now, time to celebrate!

Thanks guys

ddk632 · 08-31-2012, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crypty

So today I accepted the new job!

Yesterday after meeting with my 2 bosses they tried very hard to get me to stay by matching and coaxing me with growth opportunity to move up and lead the development team. It sounded good at the time and I was receptive to the idea but I had some time to think through the night and most of this morning.

The fact of the matter is, my department (and I) was suffering here for two reasons. One, the nature of the business is we create custom software for clients as they dictate. Many of these need ongoing long term support and I was the guy who had to do that for 9, 10, 11... live pieces of software at this point. The other reason is that management staffed our team with cheap inexperienced workers. We're all in our early-mid 20s, and only myself and one (as of today ex) co-worker has any real dev skills. Managing a team of developers is something that interests me greatly, but not this team.

On top of all that, and this is a point many of you have made, I felt like to take a counter and "possibly" a greater role would feel like twisting arms, and I did not want to be like that and have that bad vibe around the office.

I had to fight the recruiter woman every step of the way, but in the end, she was indeed just a car salesman-like flunkie trying to make her dollar. I blew off all 4 of her deadlines for a decision, DEMANDED she send me the written offer, and accepted when I was good and ready.

Very happy right now, time to celebrate!

Thanks guys

Like a BOSS!

Congrats dude, and best of luck again in your new position.

MiddleAgedAl · 08-31-2012, 04:05 PM

Congrats on the new job ! Believe me, taking a counter-offer is almost always a bad idea. If you have a reasonable request (ie: be paid fair market value for that role, not 2x market or whatever), then take it to the boss before you give notice, and see what they say. If they arent interested in that, then move on if you can.

If they try and counter only after you give notice, keep in mind that they only were interested in entertaining a valid request once you held a gun to their head.

So, if you take the counter, then that establishes an unhealthy negotiating precedent. After that, the next time you have another reasonable request about something, the only way you'll get them to listen seriously is to hold a gun to their head again by threatening to leave. If they are unwilling to talk without the threat of you leaving, then that speaks volumes of how much respect they have for you. They may not have the ability to pay the $ you want, but if they wont talk about what other perks or whatnot they can offer, then it's time to go.

08-30-2012, 03:05 PM	#23
BMW F22 Major General 3659 Rep 9,783 Posts Drives: ///M235i Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Bay Area iTrader: (8)	I would ask the current work for a raise. If they dont give you one then go with the new job. I would hate to do the rizzo method that people use on cars on a job. That's just going to be weird for both sides. It's like you'd only stay for the money.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-30-2012, 08:49 PM	#24
JoeyO Captain 287 Rep 901 Posts Drives: silver car Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: USA iTrader: (0)	Be aware that recruiters are working for your new employer. Not for you. I find 99% of them to be slimeballs. On the hierarchal chart of salespeople, they're a step below used car salespeople. You do what's right for you and not for your recruiter. That's bull that he needs to know an answer by an exact hour. It's a pressure tactic he probably picked up when he sold used Pontiac Aztecs.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-31-2012, 11:47 AM	#27
Bobble Major 56 Rep 1,232 Posts Drives: Whatever POS the wife leaves Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: SoCal iTrader: (1)	The recruiter is pushing because she wants her comission on the books, she'll get her piece once you are in place, pure and simple she wants her money. I know a fair amount of recruiters in So Cal after 30 years in IT. I will take a contract from anyone if I need it but if I'm looking the list is really short, sorry if this offends but 85% of them suck and will be selling something else in 5 years. DDK632 nailed the types of workers in IT today, be person two if you expect to survive this industry for any length of time in a technical path, if in a management path pick a company and stay there. Honestly if you accept the offer do not do the counter offer thing you will piss off both your current employer by subjecting them to the pressure, the propsective employer and the recruiter. If you piss off the later two believe people remember and have no problem trashing others if it benefits them. Good luck move on for the better compensation and make sure yuor skill set gets advanced, and big prominent projects come your way.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-31-2012, 03:05 PM	#28
Crypty Private First Class 48 Rep 178 Posts Drives: '08 e92 M3 Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: NJ iTrader: (1)	So today I accepted the new job! Yesterday after meeting with my 2 bosses they tried very hard to get me to stay by matching and coaxing me with growth opportunity to move up and lead the development team. It sounded good at the time and I was receptive to the idea but I had some time to think through the night and most of this morning. The fact of the matter is, my department (and I) was suffering here for two reasons. One, the nature of the business is we create custom software for clients as they dictate. Many of these need ongoing long term support and I was the guy who had to do that for 9, 10, 11... live pieces of software at this point. The other reason is that management staffed our team with cheap inexperienced workers. We're all in our early-mid 20s, and only myself and one (as of today ex) co-worker has any real dev skills. Managing a team of developers is something that interests me greatly, but not this team. On top of all that, and this is a point many of you have made, I felt like to take a counter and "possibly" a greater role would feel like twisting arms, and I did not want to be like that and have that bad vibe around the office. I had to fight the recruiter woman every step of the way, but in the end, she was indeed just a car salesman-like flunkie trying to make her dollar. I blew off all 4 of her deadlines for a decision, DEMANDED she send me the written offer, and accepted when I was good and ready. Very happy right now, time to celebrate! Thanks guys
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-31-2012, 04:05 PM	#30
MiddleAgedAl Lieutenant 110 Rep 418 Posts Drives: M3 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: sitting down, facing the keyboard iTrader: (0)	Congrats on the new job ! Believe me, taking a counter-offer is almost always a bad idea. If you have a reasonable request (ie: be paid fair market value for that role, not 2x market or whatever), then take it to the boss before you give notice, and see what they say. If they arent interested in that, then move on if you can. If they try and counter only after you give notice, keep in mind that they only were interested in entertaining a valid request once you held a gun to their head. So, if you take the counter, then that establishes an unhealthy negotiating precedent. After that, the next time you have another reasonable request about something, the only way you'll get them to listen seriously is to hold a gun to their head again by threatening to leave. If they are unwilling to talk without the threat of you leaving, then that speaks volumes of how much respect they have for you. They may not have the ability to pay the $ you want, but if they wont talk about what other perks or whatnot they can offer, then it's time to go.
	Appreciate 0 Quote