[010101]

Originally Posted by ik999

The purpose of a car from the manufacturer's point of view is not to compare favorably with competition, nor to win the hearts of enthusiasts. The purpose is to sell in order to generate profits.

If you are a driving enthusiast, and the IS350 fails to fulfill your standards, you should understand that it was not meant to. They were trying to capture the market of people who want a softer and less involving ride. Because for them, that's where the money was.

Yep, totally agree. Toyota does a good job with what they do. I know they are not building cars for insane people like me who want to do 130 on a mountain road in the rain. If they were they would be doing a terrible job. I'd take an STI over anything they make though which is why I hope Subaru is doing most of the designing on this one.

[voltron1011]

Originally Posted by 010101

It's actually a Celica engine, unless it is also shared by the Corolla.

Yep, it was in the Corolla XRS briefly (2005-06) but it was only tuned for about 160hp.

[Bimmerista]

I din't read the whole thread so appologies if already posted, but did you guys know that the engine and tranny of the Lotus Elise are that of a Corolla and Matrix ??

If anyone needs help with sports cars it isn't Toyota. Subaru makes a fine rally mobile, but it could use some of Toyota's know-how in refinement and (gulp) design, 'cause God knows Subie engineers can't design a round table that would look good

(OK I am exagerating, but all in good fun).

[tctic]

Toyotas are less reliable than most people think or perceive. Last year, every single Toyota model was issued with a recall of some type according to an article that I read lately.

[voltron1011]

Originally Posted by Bimmerista

I din't read the whole thread so appologies if already posted, but did you guys know that the engine and tranny of the Lotus Elise are that of a Corolla and Matrix ??

.

Yep, we just finished talking about that... That particular motor first appeared on the Celica GTS (my wife had one) and then was on the the Corolla/Matrix XRS (detuned a bit).

The same motor that had issues with self-destructing during high-rev shifting.

[Bimmerista]

Ah, sorry then - I did not about the self-destruct syndrome-that means potentially lots of unhappy Elise owners.

[010101]

Originally Posted by Bimmerista

I din't read the whole thread so appologies if already posted, but did you guys know that the engine and tranny of the Lotus Elise are that of a Corolla and Matrix ??

If anyone needs help with sports cars it isn't Toyota. Subaru makes a fine rally mobile, but it could use some of Toyota's know-how in refinement and (gulp) design, 'cause God knows Subie engineers can't design a round table that would look good

(OK I am exagerating, but all in good fun).

Lotus built a sports car and put a Toyota engine in it, so Toyota doesn't need help building sports cars? I bet someone could build a pretty cool car around a SeaDoo jet boat power plant if they figured out how to make the cooling system work. Would this be evidence of SeaDoo being able to make a sports car to you? Also, don't forget that the Lotus would be a better car if it had a Honda engine in it. It's a good car because of what Lotus did, not because Toyota designed part of the engine in it.

[NaTuReB0Y]

[010101]

Originally Posted by NaTuReB0Y

Hahaha.. very nice ad. People really have to drive that car to appreciate it. When I first saw it I thought it was a god awful gaudy gold wheeled rice rocket. When I drove it I didn't care what it looked like anyone. It instantly became one of my all time favorite cars. More fun that a Vette or M3 for sure.

[Cadillac Johnson]

Originally Posted by 010101

Right and BMW COULD make a sewing machine if they chose to. I was never talking about what Toyota could hypothetically make. Any car company could hypothetically make pretty much any kind of car. Toyota makes boring production cars. Even the ones that are supposed to be sporty are boring. Hell, Subaru could make only boring cars if they chose to... and Toyota could make only exciting sports cars if they chose to. Then this thread would be making the opposite argument. But it's not. Hypothetical cars are completely meaningless.

You dont want Toyota having much input because they dont currently have a performance car in their production lineup? That's your argument correct?

If this were 1998 and the Supra was still in production would you feel differantly?

As I said before, if you wanna talk about true performance cars, ie. F1, LeMans, Indy, etc. Toyota is far, far more involved than Subaru. With that in mind, wouldn't you want Toyota to have MORE input than Subaru?

I dont understand how you can base your opionion on a very small part of the company as a whole. Not taking into account their history and racing involvement is pretty near sighted.

[Bimmerista]

Supra, Celica, MR2, Toyota could build again a sports car if they wanted to. Bcs they are catering to the mass market, those afore-mentioned cars were discontinued because of their limited sales from the point of view of Toyota.

The Supra was and still is (it was produced in JDM trim long after they stopped importing it here) one hell of a sports car and the solidity of the engine has made it to this day one of the favorites to modd and add crazy-a$$ turbos to it (indestructible engine block).

So yeah, I maintain my point that Toyota does not need lessons in building sports cars.

[010101]

Originally Posted by Cadillac Johnson

You dont want Toyota having much input because they dont currently have a performance car in their production lineup? That's your argument correct?

If this were 1998 and the Supra was still in production would you feel differantly?

As I said before, if you wanna talk about true performance cars, ie. F1, LeMans, Indy, etc. Toyota is far, far more involved than Subaru. With that in mind, wouldn't you want Toyota to have MORE input than Subaru?

I dont understand how you can base your opionion on a very small part of the company as a whole. Not taking into account their history and racing involvement is pretty near sighted.

To be honest I really don't care. I would buy the new STI over this thing anyway, so it makes no difference to me. I think it will come out being a little more interesting if Subaru has more input though.

Would I feel differently if it were 1998? You keep coming at me with these hypothetical situations as if they are relevant to what we are talking about. Who cares what I would have said in 1998? It's 2007. We're not talking about what Toyota has done or might do we are talking about what it does. The fact remains that everyone keeps talking about the Supra and Toyota designed the last Supra over 15 years ago. If that is the best car you can think of then it proves my point. Toyota doesn't build any interesting sports cars and they haven't in a long time. They are a huge car company and they don't even make one! Subaru is tiny and they make one of the most exciting cars to drive on the road. Isn't that enough for you?

As far as F1 goes, who cares? A 2.0 liter cheap sports car has pretty much nothing to do with F1 racing. If we were talking about F1 cars here, yeah Toyota would know more than Subaru. We aren't though. We are talking about a cheap 2.0 liter sports car. Subaru makes what is arguably the best one of these in the world. Toyota makes absolutely nothing like that.

[SpecC]

Originally Posted by Cadillac Johnson

You dont want Toyota having much input because they dont currently have a performance car in their production lineup? That's your argument correct?

If this were 1998 and the Supra was still in production would you feel differantly?

As I said before, if you wanna talk about true performance cars, ie. F1, LeMans, Indy, etc. Toyota is far, far more involved than Subaru. With that in mind, wouldn't you want Toyota to have MORE input than Subaru?

I dont understand how you can base your opionion on a very small part of the company as a whole. Not taking into account their history and racing involvement is pretty near sighted.

I don't think it's that Toyota can't make a sports car for a true enthusiast, but they do lack the credibility Subaru already has from their older Imprezas markets from WRC rules.

2.0 L displacement cap, 300 hp limit, 20k of those cars must be produced and sold to compete in the WRC

it's kinda like saying, i can go faster than the speed of sound! but not in a confined space