[dazzabb]

Gent's I'm in need of some advice,

I bought a watch from a guy in San Diego, he shipped it to my shipping centre in Florida where it was gonna be forwarded.

Problem for me was it has Alligator Skin strap, so when it gets to Florida, the shipping centre informed me this item cannot be shipped overseas due to CITES nor will they ship it anywhere in the US due to the endangered species act. My ONLY options are to have it destroyed or returned to sender.


So I contact the seller, he wont reply to any messages.

So I get e-bay involved via the resolution and explain the situation.
He will not refund my money - that's OK, its not really his fault.

The seller then agrees to have the watch returned to him (at my cost again) and he will then forward to a friend in Alaska.

The watch arrives with the seller (UPS Tracked) and he signed for it 2 weeks ago.

After he agrees I naively close the case in the resolution centre and then nothing happens.

I should have waited until the watch was shipped before closing the case but I trusted him.

Regular ebay uses will know I cannot re-open a closed case and the seller refuses to answer any e-mails, he still has the watch and my $870.
I have nothing.

I have all the e-mails going back and forth for about 3 weeks on the subject, tracking numbers, addresses, etc.

Not sure there is anything I can do, does anybody have any ideas?

[kscarrol]

As a side note, alligators here in the US are not an endangered species and in fact they are farm raised for their meat and skins. Not sure why the endangered species act is being referred to.... We can easily (and legally!) buy alligator skin shoes, belts etc here in the states.

[Billup]

Originally Posted by kscarrol

As a side note, alligators here in the US are not an endangered species and in fact they are farm raised for their meat and skins. Not sure why the endangered species act is being referred to.... We can easily (and legally!) buy alligator skin shoes, belts etc here in the states.

I've seen a few TV shows where people in the bayou hook them with old chicken, then send a blast between their eyes....,

Something seems fishy here.

[Maestro]

Originally Posted by kscarrol

As a side note, alligators here in the US are not an endangered species and in fact they are farm raised for their meat and skins. Not sure why the endangered species act is being referred to.... We can easily (and legally!) buy alligator skin shoes, belts etc here in the states.

I was just about to say the same thing,

Here you have the Op is from Thialand, has it shipped to FL for some reason and claiming that some place is FL will not reship it since it has Alligator skin, something does not sound right.

As you pointed out you can buy all kinds of things made form Alligator skin in the US, it is expensive since the number of alligators harvested each year is limited. But their is no law against using alligators skins in the US

Here is some information

Historically, hunting and habitat loss have decimated alligator populations throughout their range, and whether the species would survive was in doubt. In 1967, the alligator was listed as an endangered species (under a law that was the precursor Endangered Species Act of 1973), since it was believed to be in danger of extinction throughout all or a significant portion of its range.[58]
Both the United States Fish and Wildlife Service (USFWS) and state wildlife agencies in the South contributed to the American alligator's recovery. Protection under the Endangered Species Act allowed the species to recuperate in many areas where it had been depleted. States begin monitoring their alligator populations to ensure that they would continue to grow. In 1987, the USFWS removed the animal from the endangered species list, as it was considered to be fully recovered. The USFWS still regulates the legal trade in alligators and their products to protect still endangered crocodilians that may be passed off as alligators during trafficking.[58]

It appears that Crocodiles are still protect so may be he bought a crocodile skin watch.

[dazzabb]

Originally Posted by Maestro

I was just about to say the same thing,

Here you have the Op is from Thialand, has it shipped to FL for some reason and claiming that some place is FL will not reship it since it has Alligator skin, something does not sound right.

As you pointed out you can buy all kinds of things made form Alligator skin in the US, it is expensive since the number of alligators harvested each year is limited. But their is no law against using alligators skins in the US

Here is some information



It appears that Crocodiles are still protect so may be he bought a crocodile skin watch.

This is a copy of the e-mail from my account manager at MyUS clearly stating their position and my options. Why they have this policy for Alligator skin and cannot ship elsewhere I do not know, but I was not given any choice, simply return or destroy!


Thank you for your emails.

Alligator is CITES (Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species) restricted so we are unable to export without recertification of the original CITES permit and associated fees of approximately $300 in addition to the $180 edec fee . Alligator is governed by the Endangered Species Act so we are unable to ship to an alternate US address.

Please inform us which action we should take regarding your merchandise:

1. Return to Merchant. Please contact the merchant to inquire about the return policy and procedure and to request a prepaid return shipping label. There is an additional $7 return fee per package with a label. If you cannot obtain a shipping label then we can return the items to the merchant at your expense. Please provide the name, address, and phone number of the merchant.

2. Have us discard your items at no cost to you.

Please provide us with the needed information by 2 January or it will be removed from your account and properly discarded.

Ellie

Account Manager

MyUS.com

MyUS is a big shipping company in FLA that handles and holds multiple packages for members and splits / photos / checks packages. It is a very useful service for expats. So Maestro your comments are very ill-informed.

[upstatedoc]

[kscarrol]

Sorry dazzabb but Maestro is correct. At least as far as U.S. alligator is concerned. Is this alligator strap imported from elsewhere?

I can promise you that here in Louisiana (and Florida for that matter), alligators are legally hunted AND farm raised for meats and skins. The hunts are limited to preserve wild populations but farm raised animals are not. I can walk into any number of stores here in New Orleans and legally buy any number of items made with alligator skins.

Perhaps there is some export issue... but it is not a hunting issue here in the states.

EDIT: OK, from the US Wildlife & Fisheries web site...

You must obtain a permit if: (a) the export or re-export is commercial; (b) your personal crocodilian (alligator, caiman, crocodile, or gavial) items are more than four in quantity; (c) for personal items, the foreign country requires you to have a U.S. CITES document; or (d) the personal item is being mailed or shipped separately to a foreign country. Submit either an export application form or a re-export application form.

So it does appear that the OP is correct, some CITES permit is needed to export...

[dazzabb]

Getting slightly off topic, the issue is not the legality of the strap, I only included that to give the complete story, but rather the seller agreed to have the watch returned to him as per our e-bay messages and the forward to another US address.

He would then only have to put a new address on the box and ship it. I sent him the new address and told him to send me a Paypal invoice before he shipped it.

He kept the watch and my money.

[Maestro]

Originally Posted by kscarrol

Sorry dazzabb but Maestro is correct. At least as far as U.S. alligator is concerned. Is this alligator strap imported from elsewhere?

I can promise you that here in Louisiana (and Florida for that matter), alligators are legally hunted AND farm raised for meats and skins. The hunts are limited to preserve wild populations but farm raised animals are not. I can walk into any number of stores here in New Orleans and legally buy any number of items made with alligator skins.

Perhaps there is some export issue... but it is not a hunting issue here in the states.

EDIT: OK, from the US Wildlife & Fisheries web site...

You must obtain a permit if: (a) the export or re-export is commercial; (b) your personal crocodilian (alligator, caiman, crocodile, or gavial) items are more than four in quantity; (c) for personal items, the foreign country requires you to have a U.S. CITES document; or (d) the personal item is being mailed or shipped separately to a foreign country. Submit either an export application form or a re-export application form.

So it does appear that the OP is correct, some CITES permit is needed to export...

As soon as I read the above the issue was not that is was illegal, but he had to have documentation to back up that the skin complies with the requirements.

I suspect the Ebay seller was aware of the export requirements thus would not ship out side the US since no shipper in the US cares about what is in the package. This must be the reason the person shipped it to someone in FL in hopes to turned it around and ship it to him in Thailand.

The question I have is how did the FL company know what they were shipping. Did they open it up and how do that know it was real alligator since there is so much fake stuff out there.

To the Op, not sure what you can do with the ebay seller, if you used a credit card to buy the watch you can always file a claim with your CC company. Beyond this I am not sure what else you can do, you are not a US citizen so it going to be hard to file a claim in the US against the person. Hell our police and agency do not even help people when they get scam from people outside the US, they just tell us we should know better.

BTW, here is the permit you could have completed to ship the watch out

http://www.fws.gov/forms/3-200-26.pdf

But if you read it is only for the actually skins, it does not say about a final product so there may have been some confusion on the part of the shipping company.

[Lute__]

Alligator is some good eats.

I think this will be on the OP as a buyer-beware type situation.

[The J-Man]

It's typically a bad idea to open a case against an eBay seller. Foreign buyers tend to think this is acceptable for some reason. You should have worked it out with him on the side. Once you open a case, the seller loses all sympathy for you as a buyer. With that said, you have many many options to get your money back.

[tinman831]

How did you pay? Paypal? CC? I'd just go to your CC company and file a complaint.