[Fille]

The Swedish insurance company Folksam have gathered information on which car brand is the most prone to single-car accidents from 56000 accidents 2003 and onward.

They found that BMW drivers are 10 times more likely to have a single-car accident than a Toyota driver and twice more likely than the average car and by far the worst of all drivers.

I will attach an image of the chart in question and also one chart that takes the car brands sport models (the more powerful ones, not only M-cars) into consideration.

My point of this thread is to simply have a discussion as to how/why, even though you do not live here I still think you can somewhat relate, which is why I post this here aswell as other forums.

My personal belief is that many young people with a new license (18+) want to have fun behind the wheel. So they buy cheap E36 or E46, many without DSC and just hoon about.

I think if the study would also consider the season of the year they would probably find that most BMW's actually crash in the winter, just because of the young people outside drifting in the snow (very common sight in the winter in Sweden, and probably other places in the world with snow)



"Genomsnitt" is the average driver.

[Nick the Greek]

Interesting.
I'm not sure how insurance works in Sweden, but here in the UK, facts like that would have the insurers punishing BMW drivers big time. Especially the young ones.

[Fille]

Originally Posted by Nick the Greek

Interesting.
I'm not sure how insurance works in Sweden, but here in the UK, facts like that would have the insurers punishing BMW drivers big time. Especially the young ones.

Yep it's the same here. If you're somewhere between 18-25 and want to insure a BMW, you're going to have to be ready to open your wallet

However everything about 30 they're pretty much average to insure, maybe a bit more. Which furthermore confirms my belief that it's just youngsters in old bimmers who makes us all look bad

[openwheelracing]

Not surprised. Too many bad Apples driving BMW.

[chiefneil]

Originally Posted by Fille

10 times more likely to have a single-car accident than a Toyota driver and twice more likely than the average car and by far the worst of all drivers.

10x more likely per what measure? Per vehicle mile? Per reported accident?

Without knowing the measure and methodology it's impossible to form a logical conclusion. If there are 10x more BMW's than Toyotas in Sweden, then it would be reasonable to expect 10x more accidents involving BMW's. You need to normalize the results for the distribution of vehicles and control for variables like driver age and location to get a useful result.

The chart may well be normalized, but unless it explicitly says so then interpretations are just based on assumptions.

[bri1042]

I pay less for insurance on my f30 than I did for my RSX-S at the end of our time together. Of course, I've never actually run into anything in any of my cars and the RSX-S wasn't being made anymore (they were being smashed in vast numbers by stupid people who were buying them used by the time I traded mine in).

[adhrp]

Originally Posted by chiefneil

10x more likely per what measure? Per vehicle mile? Per reported accident?

Without knowing the measure and methodology it's impossible to form a logical conclusion. If there are 10x more BMW's than Toyotas in Sweden, then it would be reasonable to expect 10x more accidents involving BMW's. You need to normalize the results for the distribution of vehicles and control for variables like driver age and location to get a useful result.

The chart may well be normalized, but unless it explicitly says so then interpretations are just based on assumptions.

I agree that what you are saying is the correct way to do it. Considering this came from an insurance study, they must have done the normalizations.

[Fille]

Originally Posted by chiefneil

10x more likely per what measure? Per vehicle mile? Per reported accident?

Without knowing the measure and methodology it's impossible to form a logical conclusion. If there are 10x more BMW's than Toyotas in Sweden, then it would be reasonable to expect 10x more accidents involving BMW's. You need to normalize the results for the distribution of vehicles and control for variables like driver age and location to get a useful result.

The chart may well be normalized, but unless it explicitly says so then interpretations are just based on assumptions.

That is indeed something that needs to be considered and I don't know if that has been taken into account.

Although I doubt the difference between the numbers of Toyota's and BMW's over here is pretty small.

[tturedraider]

I would be so embarrassed to be a Toyota driver.

[kyouhakuteki]

They should lump together the same cars:

Chrysler/Jeep.

...along with others as well.

[Fille]

Originally Posted by kyouhakuteki

They should lump together the same cars:

Chrysler/Jeep.

...along with others as well.

That wouldn't work so well. Jeep and Chrysler here in Sweden is different from the US. JEEP only sells the Cherokee and Wrangler over here and Chrysler, well I don't know since they've bailed from the market but i've seen some Sebrings and some 300C's

[tuned2ride]

I am not surprised about Toyota drivers. They are the slowest on the road. I have often the impression of driving from one Toyota to another..... they are always in the way.

[DrivenByE30]

Logic...

People who own BMW buy it because they are drivers car...
Enjoying the car for what it is... and compare to the rest of the population who sees their cars like appliamces and barely using 1% of the capabilities of what the cars were designed for and can performed.


For most people,they are afraid of g forces... for them it is danger...

I wish people would enroll amd attend BMW performance delivery to understand what their car can handle and what they can do as drivers instead of autimatically saying death is waiting as soon as you drive a bit too enthusiastically.. driving as slow as a toyota owner doesnt necesarrily mean you are safer if you have no clue on how to operate and control your car


Sorry i am typing on my cell phone ... but NOT while i am driving

[bri1042]

Another view of dangerous driving in a Toyota:

My boss has a Prius. He lives really far from work, so there's some point to it. He also has never owned a quick car. I have ridden with him several times and he drives that thing pedal to the floor nearly constantly. His gas mileage is still better than mine but he's almost always above the 8/10th's mark of his car's capabilities but gets less performance out of it than I do driving my 328 casually. I do not consider what he does safe at all and he doesn't even notice how squirrely his car is when he's driving that way or the really scary sounds his tires are making.

The non-enthusiast driver in a 328i or similar car will be much further from the edge of the car's capabilities than they would be in a Corolla or a Prius. The BMW would give them room to make a slight mistake or two without exceeding the handling and performance capabilities of their car.

[ShocknAwe]

Originally Posted by bri1042

The non-enthusiast driver in a 328i or similar car will be much further from the edge of the car's capabilities than they would be in a Corolla or a Prius. The BMW would give them room to make a slight mistake or two without exceeding the handling and performance capabilities of their car.

Would he be though, or would he just hoon on it harder and wreck out?

[darkrom]

Honestly I believe it. Fun RWD cars that inspire confidence are more likely to be pushed harder than say....a toyota yaris.

[Twix]

I pay less than half the rate for my 2014 BMW than I did on my 2010 Ranger. I was shocked, but not surprised because of how few X1s existed in Canada at the time. Having three collisions on my record sure doesn't help my cause any.

First and last truck I will ever own, never had a single accident until I bought that thing.

[denibeemer]

Originally Posted by Twix

I pay less than half the rate for my 2014 BMW than I did on my 2010 Ranger. I was shocked, but not surprised because of how few X1s existed in Canada at the time. Having three collisions on my record sure doesn't help my cause any.

First and last truck I will ever own, never had a single accident until I bought that thing.

That's because people stay away from trucks, cuz if you hit them with a truck, they're basically dead

[Never Convicted]

"That's right! Ice... man. I am dangerous."

[ptack]

Not enough imformation to draw any conclusions. What model cars are talking about? What are the sample sizes? How old are the drivers? What were the conditions? What kind of accidents were they?
You assume that BMWs are worst because they are high performance cars being driven aggresively, but then why are Chryslers next? Are Jeeps third because they are driven in worse conditions than other cars? There's not enough imformaion provided here to make any conclusions at all. I'm also certain that very large insurance companies probably have much more detailed studies with all that information and factor their rates accordingly, also taking into account the marketplace and their competition. I would imagine that the accident figures and resulting insurance rates are much more dependant on the specific car model, location and driver than by brand.