[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by Matchstick

Lithium batterys are WAY worse for the environment than they lead you to believe....

True, but the environmental extremists seem to like to keep their focus on tailpipe emissions.

[JustChris]

Hmm big decision. Diesel is struggling.

[evanevery]

Originally Posted by BimmerMat135

First they killed almost all MT, then they want to kill wagon and now diesel they really want me to look somewhere else it seem.

I agree!

I felt the same way when horses, wagon wheels, 8-track players, VCR's, and bias ply tires went away...

So sad...

[wdeerfield]

Originally Posted by drjoe66

Definitely time to look somewhere else. Had BMW diesels for a decade now. Would not drive anything else.....

your m3 is not a diesel

[BimmerMat135]

Originally Posted by BGT3

If you watch the 1st. episode of new Netflix series "Dirty Money" about VW's diesel debacle you might not want a diesel. It's very well done and implicates BMW and MB as well towards the end. Bottom line these engines pollute 400% to 500% more than the manufacturers say. It's worth watching. BMW's decision might very well be related to this since the motors might not pass emission regs.

Because you think they don't cheat on gas engine as well? The focus is just not there.

[BimmerMat135]

Originally Posted by evanevery

I agree!

I felt the same way when horses, wagon wheels, 8-track players, VCR's, and bias ply tires went away...

So sad...

Well let's see a PHEV is heavier, get worst mpg on the highway, worst handling and require constant charging to make it worth it. Nice evolution yay!

[evanevery]

Originally Posted by BimmerMat135

Well let's see a PHEV is heavier, get worst mpg on the highway, worst handling and require constant charging to make it worth it. Nice evolution yay!

My Tesla gets better mileage than a diesel...

It handles better, and is certainly faster, than most diesels...

I charge it nightly. No drama.


The future is electric. Get over it. Embrace the future!

[BimmerMat135]

Originally Posted by evanevery

My Tesla gets better mileage than a diesel...

It handles better, and is certainly faster, than most diesels...

I charge it nightly. No drama.


The future is electric. Get over it.

I recently test drove a P100D it understeer way more than my 328d, I park on the street so no accès to charging point so I would have to waste my time at supercharger. The future is hydrogen.

[evanevery]

Originally Posted by BimmerMat135

I recently test drove a P100D it understeer way more than my 328d, I park on the street so no accès to charging point so I would have to waste my time at supercharger. The future is hydrogen.

Most (81%) EV users charge at home (overnight). Public chargers are unnecessary. Sorry you don't have a plug... You can't do this (fill up at home) with Hydrogen. Regardless - no one is making hydrogen vehicles for mass consumption right now. You might as well say the future is portable fusion... Keep fishin'...

I also have an i8 Roadster (which gets better mileage, handles better than most diesels, and doesn't need a charger at all).

...not to mention my Sierra 2500 Diesel pickup which pulls the trailer that holds my M4 track car.

Time marches on. Get over it...

[420Coupe]

Originally Posted by rexus300

Great torque and amazing gas mileage. I am getting 31 mpg on the 2015 X5d. If you are driving 70-80 miles commute daily its well worth it as you can get 650 plus miles on a tank of gas.

^ the torque on diesels is insane

[tdott]

Originally Posted by rexus300

Great torque and amazing gas mileage. I am getting 31 mpg on the 2015 X5d. If you are driving 70-80 miles commute daily its well worth it as you can get 650 plus miles on a tank of gas.

31mpg? isn't it rated at 27 hwy?

I know before when the price diesel premium was more than $1500, you'd have to drive like 100k+ miles before you started to realize any savings. Haven't done the calculation on any recent models so perhaps it's less now.

[nogren]

Originally Posted by BGT3

If you watch the 1st. episode of new Netflix series "Dirty Money" about VW's diesel debacle you might not want a diesel. It's very well done and implicates BMW and MB as well towards the end. Bottom line these engines pollute 400% to 500% more than the manufacturers say. It's worth watching. BMW's decision might very well be related to this since the motors might not pass emission regs.

That's just politics. I am sure there are tech already there to handle it.
And with higher compression in gas engines, they also generates some of the emissions diesel generate, I.e. will require similar cleaning as the most modern BMW diesels.

At the moment it's a bit more expensive to develop and certify diesels, especially on some markets (us), so some companies avoid that costs partly (BMW), and completely (Volvo, who won't develop the next generation VEA diesels).

I am happy driving a clean diesel, generating far less co2 that comparable gas cars. And with more torque available if needed.

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by BimmerMat135

....The future is hydrogen.

Fool Cells...

[TajoMan]

Originally Posted by nogren

That's just politics. I am sure there are tech already there to handle it.
And with higher compression in gas engines, they also generates some of the emissions diesel generate, I.e. will require similar cleaning as the most modern BMW diesels.

At the moment it's a bit more expensive to develop and certify diesels, especially on some markets (us), so some companies avoid that costs partly (BMW), and completely (Volvo, who won't develop the next generation VEA diesels).

I am happy driving a clean diesel, generating far less co2 that comparable gas cars. And with more torque available if needed.

Actually, Diesel engine technology is struggling to match the emission regulation. Technology is not really there (at reasonable cost) to meet this crazy emission standard.

Diesel fuel itself is a lot dirtier than gasoline, so it burns dirty. That's built in from the beginning.
And it mostly burns lean, so it creates NOx.
Gasoline has it's own issue too. As it gets more and more efficient, it sees the same issue as diesel has.

So, electric is the future? Is it really greener than IC engines?
I am not so sure. Electricity has to come from somewhere.
As of today, most power plant in US is coal power plant.
Power plant is certainly more efficient than diesel engines in the car.
However, if we account all parasitic discharges from stored batteries, Lithium battery pollution and emissions from power plants, electric vehicle may not be greener than IC engines.

Then Solar panel comes in to play. People think it will be the ultimate solution. I don't think so.
As of today, the efficiency is solar panel is nowhere near replacing other power plants. It's just way too inefficient. Maintenance is costly as well.

Also, there will be different form of side effect from taking solar energy that meant go to the earth surface. For sure, lots of solar panel will affect the climate nearby.
Simply temperature will be different near the solar panel since solar energy that supposed to be absorbed on the ground is being captured and consumed somewhere else.
Nobody knows how it will affect our environment. No one.

Current move to electric vehicle is purely driven by businesses and politics. Nothing more. Nothing less. It's all about money.

[TajoMan]

Originally Posted by evanevery

Most (81%) EV users charge at home (overnight). Public chargers are unnecessary...

For now, Tesla is just expensive toy car for rich people. That's why 81% of Tesla can be charged at home.

I'm not sure how many people in the US has their own garage but I'm pretty sure it's less than 80%.

Charging time and charging infrastructure are the key for electric vehicle.

If the car can be charged to 200 miles range in 15 minutes and number of charging station is a least 30% of current gas stations, then it's time to by electric car.

[F32Fleet]

No surprise. Perfect storm really when you think about it.

-All the govt money thrown at EV development
-VW scandal
-Euro cities trying to ban diesels.
-Public disclosure that the OE's were able to shop certification within EU member countries.
-Finally, emissions systems are not reliable

[evanevery]

Originally Posted by TajoMan

For now, Tesla is just expensive toy car for rich people. That's why 81% of Tesla can be charged at home.

I'm not sure how many people in the US has their own garage but I'm pretty sure it's less than 80%.

Charging time and charging infrastructure are the key for electric vehicle.

If the car can be charged to 200 miles range in 15 minutes and number of charging station is a least 30% of current gas stations, then it's time to by electric car.

Its not 81% of Tesla's... Its 81% of ALL EV's (inc Leaf, Bolt, Model 3, etc)

I don't know why folks get hung up on the charging infrastructure. 81% of EV users don't use it. I don't care anything about it. I'm on my third EV (Volt, Tesla, i8 Roadster) and I've NEVER used a public charger. Never even seen one. I'm not gonna take my EV for a long trip - I'll use one of my cars with an ICE for that...

Most families in the US have 2+ cars. One could be an EV.

If the range of an EV can meet your DD requirements, and you can charge at home (and/or at work), then the public charging infrastructure is meaningless...

[evanevery]

Originally Posted by F32Fleet

{snip} All the govt money thrown at EV development {snip}

Yup, just like all the money thrown at ARPANET. What a waste, right?

Subsidies promote new technologies and industries, not Tariffs/Taxes...

[evanevery]

Originally Posted by TajoMan

For now, Tesla is just expensive toy car for rich people. {snip}

Tesla Model 3 Outsold All BMW Passenger Cars In US:

https://insideevs.com/tesla-model-3-...assenger-cars/

So what does that make a BMW?

[midlifecrisis]

I may never buy a VW, Porsche, or Audi as a result of what they did to diesel. The X5 35d has been under a microscope ever since and it has passed every test. I think diesel is still the best solution for heavy vehicles like the X5 that are used primarily for long trips.

I'm on my second X5 35d and I love it. If they aren't offering one when the lease is up, I'll buy it out with an extended warranty or shop for something else. There are a lot of nice gas SUVs out there.

[TajoMan]

Originally Posted by evanevery

Its not 81% of Tesla's... Its 81% of ALL EV's (inc Leaf, Bolt, Model 3, etc)

I don't know why folks get hung up on the charging infrastructure. 81% of EV users don't use it. I don't care anything about it. I'm on my third EV (Volt, Tesla, i8 Roadster) and I've NEVER used a public charger. Never even seen one. I'm not gonna take my EV for a long trip - I'll use one of my cars with an ICE for that...

Most families in the US have 2+ cars. One could be an EV.

If the range of an EV can meet your DD requirements, and you can charge at home (and/or at work), then the public charging infrastructure is meaningless...

you can say that because you have your own garage. (Like most EV onwers)

Charging at work? then work place parking lot needs chargers. That's something called 'infrastructure'.

[Die ///M Rakete]

I wish Volkswagen Aktiengesellschaft was a person so I could find him and kick him square in the nuts