[tdott]

Could be marketing, but i've never had a problem with Mann/Mahle so im sticking to them.

[adc100]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

So was I trying to help; the OEM filter is also rated at 20 microns and presented the information stating such. You basically called BS (with no proof), so it kinda did sound like skin off your dck.

The references you showed did not give 20 micons @99 %

Originally Posted by tdott

Could be marketing, but i've never had a problem with Mann/Mahle so im sticking to them.

For sure..the reference I gave showed this:



I always keep my cars a long time and invarably they use more oil after 100K. A couple bucks in the best oil milter might prevent this.
Bear in mind that 30 to 40 microns is the norm.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by adc100

The references you showed did not give 20 micons @99 %



For sure..the reference I gave showed this:



I always keep my cars a long time and invarably they use more oil after 100K. A couple bucks in the best oil milter might prevent this.
Bear in mind that 30 to 40 microns is the norm.

I didn't claim 20 microns at 99 beta rating, I just claimed it has 20 microns filtration capability; nor did you prove it doesn't have 99 efficiency. I later posted Advanced Auto shows 99 efficiency rating at 39 microns (seems odd size rating...). But what I do know is my E90 N52 has passed 379,000 miles as of yesterday and I've only used a MANN HU-816x filter with BMW 5W-30. I've owned the car since new in May 2006 with just 3 delivery miles on it. So I think I can say through empirical data, that the OEM MANN filter has a performance rating that allows for long engine life. And BTW my average OCI is now down 14,000 miles.

Your information that claims the Fram filter is 99% comes from a Fram corporate video; not an independent test report. Further, does the Fram equivalent to the OEM MANN have the exact same fitment of the MANN? If it doesn't fit as well as the OEM, then the efficiency rating goes out the window. None what you provided about the Fram convinces me to switch to that filter

Peace brother.

[adc100]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I didn't claim 20 microns at 99 beta rating, I just claimed it has 20 microns filtration capability; nor did you prove it doesn't have 99 efficiency. I later posted Advanced Auto shows 99 efficiency rating at 39 microns (seems odd size rating...). But what I do know is my E90 N52 has passed 379,000 miles as of yesterday and I've only used a MANN HU-816x filter with BMW 5W-30. I've owned the car since new in May 2006 with just 3 delivery miles on it. So I think I can say through empirical data, that the OEM MANN filter has a performance rating that allows for long engine life. And BTW my average OCI is now down 14,000 miles.

99% @ 40 microns is 30 to 40% (if that) at 20 microns.
Hey I would continue to use it also. I just notice that my 2008 Forester needs to use 40 wt oil at 200K miles. Trying to avoid that. lthough at the age of 73 maybe its not necessary considering My XT has 13K miles and the Crosstrek 2800 miles

Your information that claims the Fram filter is 99% comes from a Fram corporate video; not an independent test report. Further, does the Fram equivalent to the OEM MANN have the exact same fitment of the MANN? If it doesn't fit as well as the OEM, then the efficiency rating goes out the window. None what you provided about the Fram convinces me to switch to that filter

Peace brother.

Again..no other manufacturer makes any claims about 20 microns at 99+ percent. Do I believe it most certainly. There is something called truth in advertising. You can bet other filter companies tested the Ultra to verify it.

This a car forum where folks hopefully put forth info. That's what I'm doing. If someone can give me data that there is something better than the ultra I'm all over it!!!
You have a good one also. If you ever get to Elizabethtown Pa. I buy you dinner (and a beer)

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by adc100

99% @ 40 microns is 30 to 40% (if that) at 20 microns.

But the question is: does that matter?

Like I said in a previous post: not 100% of the oil is passed through the filter per pumpcycle. There is a bypass that is always open.
And the difference in rate of oil that chooses the filter or the bypass is made on pressure.
So for example pressure difference over the filter by a certain flowrate, temperature and oil weight is a key factor.
How much info gives fram about that? (or any other oil filter manufacturer)
Exactly: NOTHING.
So deciding if somethings better or not based on 1 parameter in a system where performance is maybe a combination of 10 or 100 or whatever parameters makes no sense.

I'm sure that Fram filter is very good, but saying its better than OEM or a mann filter or whatever is not a fact imho;
if you look at it from an engineering perspective, way too little information is given to say anything about it.

Same goes for that wear table index from that research given in the link in the TS. So they came up with some figures.
Sadly they dont tell what they exactly did and in what way that is representative for normal driving conditions.
The lack of real information and description etc says to me its marketing and nothing else. And thats not something one should buy into.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by adc100

99% @ 40 microns is 30 to 40% (if that) at 20 microns.
Hey I would continue to use it also. I just notice that my 2008 Forester needs to use 40 wt oil at 200K miles. Trying to avoid that. lthough at the age of 73 maybe its not necessary considering My XT has 13K miles and the Crosstrek 2800 miles




Again..no other manufacturer makes any claims about 20 microns at 99+ percent. Do I believe it most certainly. There is something called truth in advertising. You can bet other filter companies tested the Ultra to verify it.

This a car forum where folks hopefully put forth info. That's what I'm doing. If someone can give me data that there is something better than the ultra I'm all over it!!!
You have a good one also. If you ever get to Elizabethtown Pa. I buy you dinner (and a beer)

I'll take you up on it if you let me buy dinner. Did you work on machine tools mostly? I worked for Lockheed Martin as an equipment planning engineer back in the day. Best fun I had early in my career. We had the horizontal ring boring machine that built the tooling for the Space Shuttle main fuel tank. The machine originally was built to cut locomotive steam engine piston rings. Cool stuff.

[adc100]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I'll take you up on it if you let me buy dinner. Did you work on machine tools mostly? I worked for Lockheed Martin as an equipment planning engineer back in the day. Best fun I had early in my career. We had the horizontal ring boring machine that built the tooling for the Space Shuttle main fuel tank. The machine originally was built to cut locomotive steam engine piston rings. Cool stuff.

No we had a machine shop with 2 lathes, surface grinder, large drill press/boring machine, couple other things. I was not a machinist by trade but I learned quite a bit. Very usful as a M.E.


I'll give you my cell if you get in the area.(P.M.)

We can argue BMW's vs Subarus

[adc100]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

Like I said in a previous post: not 100% of the oil is passed through the filter per pumpcycle. There is a bypass that is always open.
And the difference in rate of oil that chooses the filter or the bypass is made on pressure.
So for example pressure difference over the filter by a certain flowrate, temperature and oil weight is a key factor. .

Oil will only bypass under extremely cold oil. And that would be unusual. Abain depth media have lower differential pressures than paper.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by adc100

Oil will only bypass under extremely cold oil.

No its not. At least not with al lot of BMW's, Mercedeses, Audi's, Volvo's
Obviously I havent examed all cars, oil filter and oil filter housings, and neither have you, or anybody, but for instance, on my car, a bmw with an engine that has sat in millions and millions of other BMW's because it was used on multiple engine genereations of an engine which was used in the majority of bmw's lineup, the bypass is OPEN.
always open
Its an open passage in the lid, above the filter.
The bigger the oil pressure difference in the filter , the more it will bypass.
But its always open, so what you're stating is not true, or at least not for every car. I'm sure that there are probably also tons of cars out there that have a bypass that is spring seal regulated, but BMW at least (and brands mentioned above) have multiple engine generations that have always open bypasses; an open, unobstructed passage parallel to the filter path.
The bypass on every m3 in the era 90-06 (at least) is again another system that even contradicts your claim above but how that works I let you fill that in.

Abain depth media have lower differential pressures than paper.

This is also a complete speculation.
It maybe true for the same area, but the paper filters have larger areas.
For instance, and lets make an example ino the extreme, if, what you say is true, under ANY circumstance, a 1cm² depth media filter where 1000 gallons/minute (so an extreme amount) is pumped through with a certain thickness of oil, will have a lower differential pressure than a paper filter with 1mile² media? No way!

So thats why its a speculation without any real meaning whay you state here, and if you want that to be true, as in a fact, then you have to come with real world testing data.
The fram filter might have a lower filter than say a mann or knecht filter in a certain car, but for that to be true, real world testing data has to come on the table. The other way around too of course, but you're the one here stating speculations without facts (even fram doesn't do that in this instance, which was my initial argument of course)

[SunjaKim]

Originally Posted by adc100

Most filters are paper media type so that is a concern. High end filters like Ultra have fiberglass depth media which will not plug as a practical matter (research it don't take my word for it)

They have the FE version out now.

FRAM Synthetic Endurance Premium Oil Filter, FE10075, 25K mile Replacement Filter for Select BMW Vehicles

https://www.fram.com/partFinder/sear...type=car-truck

https://www.fram.com/engine-oil-filter-fe10075

Synthetic Microglass Media provides high efficiency filtration for your modern engine

[DanG]

Doesn’t fit my M2.

[M-technik-3]

Ancient thread but still would not use one. Far easier to change a filter and add a 1/4 if you want 25K oil change . Filter changes are far too easy.

[Tejas1836]

OEM or WIX

[SunjaKim]

I experimented with the FRAM FE10075 - ran it for about 2000 miles.

My findings are pretty obvious looking at the attached photos - DO NOT USE THESE FRAM OIL FILTERS.

[Donatello.]

No Fram for me

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by 1004ron

I experimented with the FRAM FE10075 - ran it for about 2000 miles.

My findings are pretty obvious looking at the attached photos - DO NOT USE THESE FRAM OIL FILTERS.

It crushed because it doesn't fit correctly. When I bought my Z4 from CarMax I checked the filter when I got it home. Sure enough it looked exactly like the Fram in your pics. Being I already had another N52 E90, I had an oil change kit on hand and immediately changed the oil.

I report on the massive amount of accumulated miles on my E90 N52 for several reasons, one being I've only used BMW 5W-30 and a MANN oil filter, either OE or a HU-816x. I've owned the car since new and outside of the 2 changes from BMW I've done all of the 34 oil changes on the car. The MANN filter easily withstands 18,000-mile OCI.

There is no reason to use some BS marketed oil filter like Fram over the OE BMW-branded MANN HU-816x or the MANN HU-816x you can buy at Autozone. There is no significant price difference between the MANN filter and the BS-marketed aftermarket filters of questionable fitness for use in the N52.

[KevinC]

I would never buy ANY filter product from the company that produces “the orange can of death”. Mann or Mahle for me.