[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

100% disagree. Electronic tech ages but that's more related to EV's and solid state devices. Today's ICE engines are the best they have ever been as are transmissions. As good as the 90's were, transmissions were largely mediocre to downright terrible for automatics and while there were a handful of jewel engines in those times, today's engines in Corvettes, BMW's, VAG, Porsche, Ford Shelby, etc are absolutely amazing as we have had domestic flat plane crank engines which used to be reserved for exotics. We even have Toyota 3-cylinder engines making 300 hp. It's peak ICE right now and in future decades the 90's will look prehistoric in comparison. People that say today's cars aren't fun simply have revisionist history of older decades. It's amazing what you can do these days in even simple cars like the GR86 which will run circles around a lot of 90's cars or what Honda has done with a FWD platform with the latest type R. It's peak ICE. Older generations always pine for the past and it's no different today than it was in the 90's where plenty of small block fans in those days despised Japanese sports cars with their small engines and turbos just as old men today hate the new tech. I believe today's vehicles are just so impressive from top to bottom and no decade has come as close to the complete package as they do now.

I'm more talking about stuff like infotainment, digital displays, etc. Cars today that stuff is so integrated you're not taking it out. And modernizing it other maybe one of those horrible Chinese Tesla style android radios. Look at something like the E39 5 series, you could get nav in that and it's a total joke compared to what we have today, borderline unusable. The great part about the E39 is you can take that OEM radio out and swap it with about a billion double din options. Compare that to a more modern 5 series, when that display looks dated and it can't be removed it's gonna be a constant source of annoyance. E60 is a great example, that original iDrive setup looks and operates like garbage now, it's slow, pixelated, and not that useful. Look at cars that only had an apple connection in the glovebox, no Bluetooth or aux input (not that it matters much since nothing has aux out anymore). All that kind of stuff is going to date the cars, and it's WAY more in your face than the radio and cd player of the 90s and 00s cars. Integrated infotainment gonna be something people are gonna either love the novelty of or hate the fact that it's gonna be so trash when it's 15 years old.

All that said, we aren't at peak ICE yet. Synthetic fuels may be a real.game.cha get that completely transform where we think transportation is going. All the benefits of gasoline with no harmful combustion byproducts is game.chsnging, and makes BEVs look silly and pointless. And the great part is that we just need boaoads of new power generation to make it, which conveniently is also the requirement for EVa to work too.

[BMWbiker]

Right now is the best time:
Safety is way higher than at an[*]Performance is ridiculously high [*]Efficiency is way high[*]Reliability is way up[/LIST]
We can’t get wagons or subcompacts right now to speak of, at least in the U.S. But everything else is a vast improvement over what came before.

My M40i is way faster 0-60 MPH, and in the quarter mile, than any new car from my childhood that wasn’t an exotic from Italy. It can probably also outhandle almost anything from back then, even as an SUV. It can do all of this while getting over three times better gas mileage, fewer service appointments, and far less likelihood of any breakdowns or flat tires.

And it can do things that were unthinkable back then, such as tell me how to get to where I’m going (no physical map needed anymore), or add new features over the air (which was not a thing), and so much more.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by BMWbiker

Right now is the best time:
Safety is way higher than at an[*]Performance is ridiculously high [*]Efficiency is way high[*]Reliability is way up[/LIST]
We can’t get wagons or subcompacts right now to speak of, at least in the U.S. But everything else is a vast improvement over what came before.

My M40i is way faster 0-60 MPH, and in the quarter mile, than any new car from my childhood that wasn’t an exotic from Italy. It can probably also outhandle almost anything from back then, even as an SUV. It can do all of this while getting over three times better gas mileage, fewer service appointments, and far less likelihood of any breakdowns or flat tires.

And it can do things that were unthinkable back then, such as tell me how to get to where I’m going (no physical map needed anymore), or add new features over the air (which was not a thing), and so much more.

I have to say I agree except for the decline of availability of the manual transmission.

[jnj2455]

I think 90s were (generally) an over-engineered period following the 80s economic boom which yielded many fantastic cars from the Asian & Euro brands.

00s were a malaise era for nearly the whole market, IMO.

2010s corrected that and the perfect blend of analogue meets digital. I hate the trend of touch capacitive everything now in the 2020s+.

My response may just date me though as someone who was born in the 90s. Ask a 17 year old today and they likely (1) have less interest in driving or (2) relative to what they've experienced love the contemporary screens-everywhere approach.

[BMWbiker]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I have to say I agree except for the decline of availability of the manual transmission.

The manual transmission as utility, as opposed to fun, has become less and less important.

For all of my cars until recently, I chose the manual transmission. Sure, it’s fun and it allows you to control the car more directly. But the manual also offered significantly better acceleration, gas mileage, and often durability, and cost less.

This is no longer the case.

Automatic and dual-clutch transmissions are now often faster and get better gas mileage than the manual equivalents, when they still exist. They also mostly do a better job than the manuals. And, they’re often more reliable.

My most recent two cars have automatic transmissions perforce.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by BMWbiker

The manual transmission as utility, as opposed to fun, has become less and less important.

For all of my cars until recently, I chose the manual transmission. Sure, it’s fun and it allows you to control the car more directly. But the manual also offered significantly better acceleration, gas mileage, and often durability, and cost less.

This is no longer the case.

Automatic and dual-clutch transmissions are now often faster and get better gas mileage than the manual equivalents, when they still exist. They also mostly do a better job than the manuals. And, they’re often more reliable.

My most recent two cars have automatic transmissions perforce.

I'm not trying to restart the debate. I just think while cars are great in this era, we as drivers have given up too much control to them. I own manuals purely for the control aspect; I hate to have the car shift when it wants to. Would you ride/own the Goldwing DCT? I know I wouldn't. I have one automatic transmission vehicle and I find I'm always concentrating on controlling the throttle input to make the transmission shift when I want it to shift. I don't do that for my manual cars, it is second nature. I sent the TCU to get programmed for better shifting. It helps greatly but I find I'm back to being annoyed with the shift quality and timing.

I think cars today would be even better with an option to have a manual transmission. The enviro-gods and safety gods have killed the manual, sadly.

[BlkGS]

The biggest issue with cars right now is the accountants. They kill anything that isn't "the common" version of it. Manuals didn't have a high enough take rate, so screw enthusiast cars. Same for wagons, hatchbacks, and unique engines.

The X3 M40i mentioned before is a great example. That motor is in everything from a base X7 to the 2 series and the Z4. It literally is in every vehicle BMW offers that isn't FWD. Oh and they sell it to a couple of other companies too. While that's good from a parts availability perspective, it's boring as all get out when it comes to shopping for something fun. And sure, they tune it a little different here and there, but in the next generation they're gonna be paired with an electric motor and be even the highest engine options. There won't even be a V8 to step up to.

Objectively, cars now are great. Subjectively, they are so digital, so computerized, and so tech packed that they're just less endearing and exciting.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

The biggest issue with cars right now is the accountants. They kill anything that isn't "the common" version of it. Manuals didn't have a high enough take rate, so screw enthusiast cars. Same for wagons, hatchbacks, and unique engines.

The X3 M40i mentioned before is a great example. That motor is in everything from a base X7 to the 2 series and the Z4. It literally is in every vehicle BMW offers that isn't FWD. Oh and they sell it to a couple of other companies too. While that's good from a parts availability perspective, it's boring as all get out when it comes to shopping for something fun. And sure, they tune it a little different here and there, but in the next generation they're gonna be paired with an electric motor and be even the highest engine options. There won't even be a V8 to step up to.

Objectively, cars now are great. Subjectively, they are so digital, so computerized, and so tech packed that they're just less endearing and exciting.

It is the not Accountants per se, rather their reaction to the realities of government regulations. Each body style has to be crash tested with each drivetrain configuration. Emissions and fuel consumption testing is the other cost factor.

How the 6th gen Ford Bronco ever made it from paper to production is a major feat in itself and one of the reasons I bought one.

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

I'd say you can safely say 2000-2010 was the best. That's not even starting on all the much more attainable sporty compact cars.

I agree with this, and that decade brought me my beloved Exige as well, the likes of which will never been seen again in this country. At $56K it wasn't the easiest to afford in 2006, slotted in between a base and Z06 Corvette, but it was cheap compared to many others, and that was way before $10K mark-ups on cars, so many buyers got a discount.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

It is the not Accountants per se, rather their reaction to the realities of government regulations. Each body style has to be crash tested with each drivetrain configuration. Emissions and fuel consumption testing is the other cost factor.

How the 6th gen Ford Bronco ever made it from paper to production is a major feat in itself and one of the reasons I bought one.

That's fair, I was thinking more from the perspective of "every quarter must have more profits and revenues and less cost per unit" demanded by wall st analysts. Combine the both, yeah, it's a wonder anything at all interesting gets made anymore.

I think they pitched bronco by saying "we make 10k profit per unit of raptor, and jeep makes 10k per.unit of wrangler..if we built something combining both, we would make 10k x 10k =100k per unit!"

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by ///MPhatic

I agree with this, and that decade brought me my beloved Exige as well, the likes of which will never been seen again in this country. At $56K it wasn't the easiest to afford in 2006, slotted in between a base and Z06 Corvette, but it was cheap compared to many others, and that was way before $10K mark-ups on cars, so many buyers got a discount.

I never drove the exige, only the regular Elise. But I did do a track day with one guy who had an exige s. The guy driving it (you g french guy there with his dad, him and I were both like mid 20s and with our dad's, lol) was really a prick about it actually, lol. He got mad when the head instructor called it an Elise, and said it "has a 2zz with a supercharger!", and insisted that everyone else was on notice that we would be needing to keep a look out for him to let him pass because his car was a carbon fibered up track monster and we would all be in his way (at a PCA event).

I spent the entire day just passing him like he was standing still in a 997S. Straights, he was obviously outmatched, but even in the corners I was just cornering way faster than him. He didn't appear to be having much fun either, he got out exhausted and drenched with sweat because I guess he was t running the AC and his was built to such an extreme spec that it was beating the crap out of him. One of the later meetings the head instructor asked.him what was wrong and he insisted he had a boost leak somewhere, to which the instructor replied "weird that shouldn't make you also be slow in the corners". He stormed off and I'm pretty sure his dad drove it the next session because it was noticably smoother and faster the next go around.

Really cool car though, they're certainly never going to make something like that again, at least not something that can be used on US roads.

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

I never drove the exige, only the regular Elise.
Really cool car though, they're certainly never going to make something like that again, at least not something that can be used on US roads.

\

Same car underneath, 111R, just the skin is different. And they made the Exige 1 year without a supercharger, which is what I wanted (and got).

You really have to know how to drive to make the Elise/Exige sing, they have no torque, so you have to carry speed, and even then, unless they are modified properly they'll get out-paced on the straights.

I have never tracked mine, but I'm sure it'd do quite well, I've had it for 19 years, and know how to hustle the car. But I have no interest in it, I'd rather hit the back roads with no helmet any day.

Today was a good day. by Andrew Thompson, on Flickr

Blue Sky. by Andrew Thompson, on Flickr

A Proper Wheel. by Andrew Thompson, on Flickr

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by ///MPhatic

\

Same car underneath, 111R, just the skin is different. And they made the Exige 1 year without a supercharger, which is what I wanted (and got).

You really have to know how to drive to make the Elise/Exige sing, they have no torque, so you have to carry speed, and even then, unless they are modified properly they'll get out-paced on the straights.

I have never tracked mine, but I'm sure it'd do quite well, I've had it for 19 years, and know how to hustle the car. But I have no interest in it, I'd rather hit the back roads with no helmet any day.

Today was a good day. by Andrew Thompson, on Flickr

Blue Sky. by Andrew Thompson, on Flickr

A Proper Wheel. by Andrew Thompson, on Flickr

Yeah I kinda had a feeling he was an all money, no skill kinda guy. The car was DECKED LUT in carbon fiber. Carbon splitters, carbon wing, carbon mirrors, carbon ducts, carbon canards, if there was something that could be made from.carbon, it was. When we were walking the paddock in the morning I remember saying tonmy dad that car was either gonna be insanely fast, or slow as hell with a rich guy who didn't know what they were doing in it. As it turned out, I was right.

Your car is very pretty. I bet that's a blast on a nice curvy back road. The difference a road makes in how much you can enjoy a car is nuts. We had a ton of great roads back in NC. Lots of hilly areas with nice windy roads that were a joy in most anything sorta fun. Here in FL, I have to look for nice turns. There's no "nice roads", I get one nice turn if I'm lucky lol.

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

The car was DECKED LUT in carbon fiber. Carbon splitters, carbon wing, carbon mirrors, carbon ducts, carbon canards, if there was something that could be made from carbon, it was

The funniest part about that is the stock plastic parts are lighter than carbon, they just look cheap so most guys replace them. None of it makes the car faster. There are quite a few things you can do to them though, if you know what to look for, and I've done those. My car is 1,875 lbs full of gas.

Originally Posted by BlkGS

Your car is very pretty. I bet that's a blast on a nice curvy back road.

Thanks, aesthetics are very important to me, and I make no apologies for it. Even all the race bits are there just for the look. It's set up for the street, and just a pure joy to drive, honestly.

Originally Posted by BlkGS

The difference a road makes in how much you can enjoy a car is nuts. We had a ton of great roads back in NC. Lots of hilly areas with nice windy roads that were a joy in most anything sorta fun. Here in FL, I have to look for nice turns. There's no "nice roads", I get one nice turn if I'm lucky lol.

Agreed, the road chosen makes all the difference.

[Alfisti]

If I sell my 997 it will be because the roads here are so abysmal and boring I cannot find any joy unless I drive a SOLID hour round trip JUST TO GET TO AND RETURN FROM the nicer roads.

It becomes a full day out which is ridiculous.

[freakystyly]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

If I sell my 997 it will be because the roads here are so abysmal and boring I cannot find any joy unless I drive a SOLID hour round trip JUST TO GET TO AND RETURN FROM the nicer roads.

It becomes a full day out which is ridiculous.

You mean a giant diagonal grid across half the province isn't fun?

It's no wonder people give up and just buy road appliances.

[Alfisti]

It's just rubbish. Road quality is swiss cheese anywhere near me, i mean it is just insanely bad. Then all the roads are ARROW straight, the closest but of somewhat curvy road is a 25 minute drive with zero traffic and there is always traffic. Brutal.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

It's just rubbish. Road quality is swiss cheese anywhere near me, i mean it is just insanely bad. Then all the roads are ARROW straight, the closest but of somewhat curvy road is a 25 minute drive with zero traffic and there is always traffic. Brutal.

On the East Coast of the US, most backroads follow ancient Indian paths, which usually trace the paths of rivers and streams or the flattest topography up mountains. I live in such a paradise. Left or right out of my driveway are racetrack level roads. Better actually.

[MADBMWX5MC]

Originally Posted by jnj2455

I think 90s were (generally) an over-engineered period following the 80s economic boom which yielded many fantastic cars from the Asian & Euro brands.

00s were a malaise era for nearly the whole market, IMO.

2010s corrected that and the perfect blend of analogue meets digital. I hate the trend of touch capacitive everything now in the 2020s+.

My response may just date me though as someone who was born in the 90s. Ask a 17 year old today and they likely (1) have less interest in driving or (2) relative to what they've experienced love the contemporary screens-everywhere approach.

Spot on

[billnchristy]

I'm torn because I like aspects of every generation, and while the 90s Japanese cars were super cool and awesome, I remember even in 98-99 what a PITA they were to keep running. At that time I had a 1987 Porsche 924S and had two buddies with an Eclipse GSX, and a 3000GT. Those poor bastards were always working on the cars and all the trick active stuff on the 3000 rarely worked, but they were putting down 13 sec quarters and that damn 3000GT could do 155 on the interstate pretty easily.

I like the raw simplicity of my 1966 Mustang, but it would have to be a very nice day for me to choose it over my 2022 BMW.

I think we get hung up on nostalgia and forget that a lot of those 90s cars were absolute shitboxes in many ways. So to be negative about each, here's my synopsis of the issues of each gen:

60s- Slow (by today's standards), pigs even though they were light, unsafe as hell
70s- Hot garbage choked to death by EPA, love the boats of this era though but a 200hp big block is a damn sin
80s- Starting to see some glimmer of hope near the end as they figured out how to tune around cats, cheapest most non UV resistant plastics ever created, pull a panel, it turns to dust
90s- Some jank EFI management and primitive ECU, general build quality kinda ass
00s- I feel like there wasn't much soul here, everything got better from a power, comfort, build quality standpoint but wasn't revolutionary, lots of unreliable sensors added
10s- Pretty good all around, everyone stepped their games up, tech became a bit of a PITA as everything got integrated whereas it was easy to put new sound systems in from 2000 down
20s- Soul-less but absolute monsters, the best daily driver, but not very fixable by a home mechanic, all the computer integration is going to be hell in the future

The good:

60s- So many options
70s- Luxo-barges still have functional "high tech" and seats like couches
80s- Fox bodies, Saab 900s, Mitsubishi & Mazda porsche clones
90s- JDM all the way, cool weird stuff like Taurus SHO
00s- Ehhh, 996?
10s- We actually really liked our 2010 prius and 2016 Chevy Volt, MPG = freedom when you come from a 5l explorer
20s- I can drive my car 8 hours and not hate life

[10"]

1962-1972 no question. Later 1970s was gas crisis driven but still some great stuff. The 1980s were solid! But then again I was a kid in the 80s and loved everything

2000s were good too. The 2010s not so good, CURRENT state 2020s is the worst I’ve ever seen—the enthusiasm has left carmaking.