[EWL5]

Originally Posted by avi66

There’s no excuse, the problem is how much effort goes in, cost, and if you like the “house” brand tuning. It’s also a challenge that there being no universal good.

Most manufactures abdicate auto audio to companies like Harman (owned by Samsung ) which also provides automotive audio system under numerous brands - https://car.harman.com/solutions/car-audio

Maybe that's why the ELS system was so good. It didn't fall under Harman's purview!

[srekal34]

Originally Posted by EWL5

Maybe that's why the ELS system was so good. It didn't fall under Harman's purview!

Well Harman Research arguably did more to understanding of audio perception than any other company in the world. So you are a bit harsh.
Without them you wouldnt have Klippel-designed home speakers at affordable prices and we would still be considering gold wrapped s*it like Sonus Faber as "high-end".

[Montaver]

These are essentially the same speakers BMW have been using in HK setups for generations. Having changed all of them out on my 3 series for Morels (I created a thread which goes into detail) they are lightweight and cheap. You can buy the exact speakers on Aliexpress for around $3 each. It’s frustrating because they can do it properly - look at B&W in the 5 series ($900 option). The 3 speaker door setup means the lower and midrange has proper capability. They could of carried over the HK from the i4 which similarly has proper woofers in the doors and a powered sub in the trunk. The B&O is Audi’s, even down to the A3, have proper speakers in the lower doors. As it stands they copied the nerfed setup they have been using for years which has no real energy in the mids, muddy bass, and shrill highs from the crappy tweeters.

But hey it’s not all bad… at least you have a huge door card space to put your jumbo iced moccha oat late in whilst you gaze lovingly at your premium knitted reclaimed polyester dash and cycle through all the exciting ambient lighting shades inspired by real artists.

[EWL5]

Originally Posted by srekal34

Well Harman Research arguably did more to understanding of audio perception than any other company in the world. So you are a bit harsh.
Without them you wouldnt have Klippel-designed home speakers at affordable prices and we would still be considering gold wrapped s*it like Sonus Faber as "high-end".

I know Harman Research has done quite a bit of work for home audio (remember my post where I referenced the Harman curve for Dirac?) but I don't really see the benefits translating to car audio!

BMW needs to hire a sound guy like Elliot Scheiner to recommend changing out the toy speakers we get by default!

[avi66]

I don't know how much of a difference this may have made to the reviewers findings, but it appears BMW has downgraded some of the speakers in the G45 HK system.

The BMW SA688 HK system is what BMW refers to as Audio Level 3 (ALEV3), yet it appears to be using lower level ALEV2 mid range only speakers in the D pillars, rather than ALEV3 mid range and tweeter.

ALEV2 level is the level fitted to G45 without HK, and using replacement cost as a rough guide to relative cost, the ALEV2 D pillar speaker solution cost significantly less (circa €80 each) compared to the previous D pillar ALEV3 solution (circa €256 each).

Interestingly, the G45 centre, front, and door ALEV2 (non HK) and ALEV3 (HK) mid-surround speakers appear to be the same cost to replace. The G45 mid-range speakers also appear much cheaper to replace (circa €50 less per speaker) than previous Top-HiFi ALEV3 mid range speakers.

I wonder if this cost reduction and possibly lower cost speakers funded the additional bass speaker in the trunk ?

[RussB]

Originally Posted by DCBmwMD

The BMW USA site is wrong. They copy and pasted from the G01. See my earlier post on this thread from the parts supplier. There is definitely a sub in the back

I can confirm that mine has a sub in the rear. With that being said, it must be very small and it does not produce a lot of bass.

[avi66]

Originally Posted by RussB

Mine has more than just a mid range in the D pillar. I can clearly hear a tweeter in that spot.

As per post #49, there is no separate tweeter in the D pillar anymore for HK, just a single midrange according to BMW, and post #27 shows the location of the tweeters.

BMW global information states there are now 15 speakers in the G45 HK, which tallies with the parts information for a US VIN M50 equipped with HK as follows -

Centre Speaker - 1 x Midrange 1 x tweeter
Front Doors - 2 x Midrange 2 x tweeter
Rear Doors - 2 x Midrange 2 x tweeter
Under F Seat - 2 x Central Bass
D pillar - 2 x Midrange
Trunk - 1 x Bass Speaker

Total 15 speakers

If you also had tweeters in each D pillar that would be 17 speakers total.

It’s easy to remove the D pillar trim to check and you can post an image of your D pillar speaker/s.

[avi66]

Here are the HK speaker locations and speaker type on the BMW M50 (central bass is under the front seats)

[avi66]

Originally Posted by RussB

Mine has either a tweeter in the D pillar or a coax driver that is capable of reproducing the high frequencies typically produced by a tweeter. It is clearly not a typical midrange driver, like what is found in the middle of the front and rear doors.

AFAIK it has neither and BMW describe it as a mid range speaker.

The same speaker part number is used on other things including the lower level standard G45 100w 6 speaker ALEV2 audio option, it’s even stated in the BMW description. It cost the same as all the other G45 ALEV3 mid range speakers, which also cost the same as the ALEV2 lower level mid range speakers.

Take a photo as clearly a coaxial driver or separate tweeter speaker will be visible. The mid and tweeter combo also has a passive filter which affects frequency distribution. The cost of a replacement G45 HK D pillar speaker from BMW is c. €80 MRSP including tax.

* Just checked, it’s the same mid range speaker part used in the G45 ALEV2 base audio option for the centre instrument panel (dash), which doesn’t have a separate tweeter. In fact, the ALEV2 base audio option has no tweeters period.

[crackerjack15]

Subjectively, we have an X7 and the X3 M50 with HK and i feel the X7 sounds better with the same material. I can't describe the difference, but the X7 to me sounds better.

[avi66]

Originally Posted by RussB

You are posting screen prints from an EU parts site, but I can tell you without hesitation that my US spec car is producing tweeter level treble extension from the D pillar grill. I don’t know what’s behind the grill but the high frequency extension is much higher than what the door midrange drivers are providing. The treble extension sounds similar to what I’m getting from the tweeters at the top of the doors. Any other member here with an M50 from the US should be able to confirm if they hear what I’m hearing.

I’ll put a bright LED flashlight on the grill tonight when it’s dark out and try to see what is behind it. We are debating an insignificant point. This system does not need more treble from the D pillars, it could use more deep bass. The factory tuning is very flat with everything zeroed out to the default settings. I was able to use the bass, treble, and equalizer controls to get to where it sounds ok to my ears.

The parts are for US VIN cars, so it makes no difference, plus the launch information is international and has options for Euro and US spec. However, below is the part on a US BMW dealer part site.

Basically, the G45 D pillar in the HK option is only fitted with the midrange speaker used in the base “standard” non HK system, no tweeter. So if the ALEV2 midrange only speaker sound is good enough for you, perhaps cheaper is better, and the standard audio is the way to go.

I suspect as the cost is the same for all the G45 midrange speakers in both standard and HK options, the speaker material quality is similar, if not identical, with the HK option adding a separate tweeter/passive crossover filter in combination to some speaker locations.

Interestingly, the G45 replacement midrange speakers cost much less ($99 MSRP each) per unit than previous Top HiFi midrange speaker ($166 MSRP each). So it appear there’s definite cost cutting at work at c. $67 cost reduction per midrange speaker, and even more on the D pillar solution.

The debate for me is more about the impact of BMW’s cost cutting, and I’m interested in establishing factual information about the components used, so we have a better understanding of the parts and associated costs. Hence, any images of the actual part would be appreciated.

[DCBmwMD]

Originally Posted by RussB

I can confirm that mine has a sub in the rear. With that being said, it must be very small and it does not produce a lot of bass.

I think it depends on the source music. I play mostly electronic , dance and pop music and it can really thump. The rear subwoofer only puts out very low frequency bass. I think the higher frequency bass is handled by the woofers under the 2 front seats.

[EWL5]

It appears BMW downgraded the audio w/o penalty for the G45. There aren't any new threads complaining about the audio so it looks like they really know their segment!