[ARES45]

I agree with evan on the GM being a little late. I likely would have went with them if they brought it earlier.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by EvanB85

Same reason Chrysler is charging more for the Challenger than for the Charger. Same platform, same drivetrain.

So they won't sell many of them? :iono:

The SRT versions are both around $40k, and the sales haven't been good for the Charger. The Challenger will sell well the first year, and then taper off.

GM is selling the G8 with a V8 for about $5k less than the R/T Charger which has less power. There's no reason they won't do the same with the Camaro. You don't seriously think they're going to price it within $5k of the Vette do you?

[mbell75]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

Will not happen. What makes you think the Camaro is going to cost that much more than a four door car riding the same chassis that also has a large V8 in it? It won't be a dime over $35k.

Again, Chevy has already said they plan on keeping prices right with the Mustang. V6 will start under $25k, the V8 version (presumably called the Z28 with 400hp) will sell for under $30k and the top model (most likely called the SS with 505hp) Will sell for under $40k.

Should look something like this for base prices:

V6-$22k
Z28-$27k-$28k
SS-$37k-$38k

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by mbell75

Again, Chevy has already said they plan on keeping prices right with the Mustang. V6 will start under $25k, the V8 version (presumably called the Z28 with 400hp) will sell for under $30k and the top model (most likely called the SS with 505hp) Will sell for under $40k.

Should look something like this for base prices:

V6-$22k
Z28-$27k-$28k
SS-$37k-$38k

I'm thinking the Z28 might get the 365Hp DOD 6.0L (L98?) they're using in the G8, and the SS will get the LS3 with 435Hp (or whatever it's at by then) . I can't imagine them using the LS2 at this point, and using the DOD engine will help with CAFE, which is going to become a pretty serious issue for GM over the next few years.

[mbell75]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

I'm thinking the Z28 might get the 365Hp DOD 6.0L (L98?) they're using in the G8, and the SS will get the LS3 with 435Hp (or whatever it's at by then) . I can't imagine them using the LS2 at this point, and using the DOD engine will help with CAFE, which is going to become a pretty serious issue for GM over the next few years.

No. The Z28 is getting a slightly detuned LS3 (rumored to be making 400-405hp) and the SS is getting an LS7 (505 hp thats in the current Z06). By 2010 the Z06 will be around 540-550hp.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by mbell75

No. The Z28 is getting a slightly detuned LS3 (rumored to be making 400-405hp) and the SS is getting an LS7 (505 hp thats in the current Z06). By 2010 the Z06 will be around 540-550hp.

Got a source for that? That's all internet speculation that doesn't even make sense. GM has never de-tuned an engine, only lied about the ratings, and they stopped doing that when the last generation F-Body died off, and are now held to an SAE standard that completely prevents it. Why would they de-tune it? It's not like the Camaro is going to be any where near as fast as the Vette. We already know the Camaro is getting a full dual exahaust, so it's not like there's going to be a huge HP loss there (there reall wasn't on the F-Bodies with the single exhaust), so you just think they're going to change the ECU settings to make less power? Why would they?

Also, not even God knows what GM will be doing by 2010.

[mbell75]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

Got a source for that? That's all internet speculation that doesn't even make sense.

Get off the BMW board and check out the Camaro and F-body boards :smile: Its pretty much well known the Z28 version is getting the LS3 rated at about 403hp to be exact. Still speculation on the SS version but most everyone is saying its getting the current LS7 in the Z06 and keeping the 505hp. Thats why they keep bumping the Vette up in power. Dont want it too close to the Camaro.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by mbell75

Get off the BMW board and check out the Camaro and F-body boards :smile: Its pretty much well known the Z28 version is getting the LS3 rated at about 403hp to be exact. Still speculation on the SS version but most everyone is saying its getting the current LS7 in the Z06 and keeping the 505hp. Thats why they keep bumping the Vette up in power. Dont want it too close to the Camaro.

If they don't want anything close to the Vette, why does my GTO have the exact same rating as a Vette from the same year?

GM hasn't released any official numbers for the Camaro, and until they do it's all internet speculation. There's no good reason under the sun for them to de-tune the LS3 when they put it in the Camaro, and they haven't in modern times. Why would they start now?

I'd love to see a source with "403Hp to be exact" when the car is still a year away from production.

[BMW Dreamer]

A loaded CTS is $49k+ I looked at one and saw the sticker, GOOD BYE.

The Mazdaspeed 3 doesn't allow full boost in first gear. I was looking at it. It is really cool and quick, especially for the price.

[mbell75]

Originally Posted by Jeff1962

A loaded CTS is $49k+ I looked at one and saw the sticker, GOOD BYE.

The Mazdaspeed 3 doesn't allow full boost in first gear. I was looking at it. It is really cool and quick, especially for the price.

CTS is a great car. Very nice engine, luxurious interior and a nice ride.

[Russo]

Originally Posted by Jeff1962

A loaded CTS is $49k+ I looked at one and saw the sticker, GOOD BYE.

The Mazdaspeed 3 doesn't allow full boost in first gear. I was looking at it. It is really cool and quick, especially for the price.

whereas i agree with you on the price of the CTS, you simply cannot be in a league of cars such as the CTS and then imply the Mazda 3 is "better"... it's 2 cars built for completely different classes of people...

[mbell75]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

If they don't want anything close to the Vette, why does my GTO have the exact same rating as a Vette from the same year

Do I really have to explain that? haha. First off, the people in a market for a Corvette are not even going to look twice at a PONTIAC GTO. Second, its about 1k pounds heavier than a Vette so there is no way it was going to come close in matching its performance times. Not to mention it was ugly and dint sell.

Someone goes to a Chevy dealer and sees a sharp looking Camaro with the same engine and power as a Vette for $20k less sitting right next to it, that could be a problem.

[ARES45]

I would have to agree with mbell, the GTO was a great idea, but a poorly executed vehicle. It is too ugly and heavy. It shames the GTO name. I only hope GM straightens their shit out for the Camaro.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by mbell75

Do I really have to explain that? haha. First off, the people in a market for a Corvette are not even going to look twice at a PONTIAC GTO. Second, its about 1k pounds heavier than a Vette so there is no way it was going to come close in matching its performance times. Not to mention it was ugly and dint sell.

Someone goes to a Chevy dealer and sees a sharp looking Camaro with the same engine and power as a Vette for $20k less sitting right next to it, that could be a problem.

You don't have a clue what you're talking about. You say no one would cross shop a Vette and GTO (yet many of us did, along with the M3, G35, EVO and STI) so it's no big deal, but since the Camaro looks better they're going to de-tune the motor to protect Vette sales, and then turn around and put an LS7 in it?

The Camaro won't be any lighter than the GTO is, and if it's only going to have 400Hp it's not going to perform any better either, so that part of your argument also doesn't make any sense.

Why don't you just agree that you, along with everyone else on the forums are simply speculating. Or you could otherwise provide a link to something that backs up your claims.

For the record....if the Z28 (Or whatever they're going to call it) gets the LS3 it will have AT LEAST 425Hp. Feel free to quote me on that when the official numbers

With that I'm going to drop this, because you've already resorted to stating your opinions as fact and throwing around pointless insults.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by ARES45

I would have to agree with mbell, the GTO was a great idea, but a poorly executed vehicle. It is too ugly and heavy. It shames the GTO name. I only hope GM straightens their shit out for the Camaro.

It's 3750lbs and runs high 12 second 1/4 miles with nothing more than a tune. It has IRS a nice interior and could be had for under $30k and is faster than any GTO ever built. If you think the Camaro is going to weigh much less than the GTO you're not living in reality.

[ARES45]

I hope it weighs less, I don't know if it will but I am hopeful. It damn well better be faster than any GTO ever built, it has about 30 years of engineering advancement since the last one. In my opinion they brought back the name but that is it. At least with the Camaro there is some style in the car. I would even consider one if it was better looking, but I dont think I would get it because I just have a weird gut feeling of not liking the GTO. I appologize, I am sure you enjoy it and it is fun, but I don't think it is a car I could love. Then again I love my 95 regal so maybe my judgement is a little off. I will love the 135 and could even see myself having an affair with the camaro if done right.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by ARES45

I hope it weighs less, I don't know if it will but I am hopeful. It damn well better be faster than any GTO ever built, it has about 30 years of engineering advancement since the last one. In my opinion they brought back the name but that is it. At least with the Camaro there is some style in the car. I would even consider one if it was better looking, but I dont think I would get it because I just have a weird gut feeling of not liking the GTO. I appologize, I am sure you enjoy it and it is fun, but I don't think it is a car I could love. Then again I love my 95 regal so maybe my judgement is a little off. I will love the 135 and could even see myself having an affair with the camaro if done right.

I'm hoping it's lighter as well, but the G8 weights in at 4000lbs and I don't see them taking much more than 300lbs out of that. All the mandated safety equipment these days is really adding up. I mean even the 135 is nearly as heavy as the previous generation F-Body. I'm afraid the days of lightweight affordable performance cars are over.

The current GTO isn't perfect by any means, but the original GTO was a rebadge as well, and wasn't a flashy car at the time. I bought the car for the performance and could really care less what GM called it. I would have been happy with Monaro. Obviously there are a lot of people who didn't like the styling, but you'd be shocked hom many times every week someone gives me the thumbs up or makes comments about how good the car looks. I think GM did a very poor job with the marketing, and initial pricing. They should have slapped $30k on the windshield and billed it as a Mustang killer instead of a 3 series fighter, even though it serves that purpose pretty well.

At the time I bought it you just couldn't buy anything nearly as fast for the money I paid.:w00t:

[Mturbopower1]

I thinks its nice, but only if you put the v8 in it, it just looks heavy and if you get a v6 it won't be fast at all.

[BMW Dreamer]

Originally Posted by Russo

whereas i agree with you on the price of the CTS, you simply cannot be in a league of cars such as the CTS and then imply the Mazda 3 is "better"... it's 2 cars built for completely different classes of people...

I wasn't comparing them at all. I was commenting on 2 cars separately. The CTS is a great car, but WAY too expensive for me. It starts at $34k and goes to $50k.

The Mazda speed 3 is great for $23k and thats it.

You can see in my post there was separation and periods between the comments, SORRY

[mbell75]

Originally Posted by Jeff1962

I wasn't comparing them at all. I was commenting on 2 cars separately. The CTS is a great car, but WAY too expensive for me. It starts at $34k and goes to $50k.

Will be the same case for a 135...

[Genericuser1]

My current car list is like this:
1. Camaro
2. Used GT-R (more of a pipe dream as I don't expect them to depreciate much)
3. 135i.