[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by FStop7

LAWL so the bailout money goes to support China and GM is closing 3,000 dealerships in the USA, which means (assuming 25 employees per dealership) at least 75,000 lost jobs.

Good work!

Some of the dealers have to go. There isn't enough business to support them, and won't be for years to come even if GM had the best products on the market.

[cougfan335]

GM importing is a pretty good stopgap measure for small car sales. They are going to do what every other company has been doing for years and use the manufacturing savings and flexibility of the Chinese and just mark every car up a couple hundred bucks. That said they should probably avoid bringing that car in the crash test over here. I watched of few of the related videos and that heap did worse that the VW Beetle (1940s-2000 model).

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by cougfan335

GM importing is a pretty good stopgap measure for small car sales. They are going to do what every other company has been doing for years and use the manufacturing savings and flexibility of the Chinese and just mark every car up a couple hundred bucks. That said they should probably avoid bringing that car in the crash test over here. I watched of few of the related videos and that heap did worse that the VW Beetle (1940s-2000 model).

I would imagine GM would move the production tooling for an existing, US spec model to China and build it there. Or maybe use one of the new "world chassis" cars like the Cobalt replacement. Those are going to be sold worldwide anyway, so making them in the cheapest place possible makes sense from a manufacturing point of view.

I'd hate to be on the production engineering team that gets sent to China for the next 5 years to make it work though.

[johnnymu]

But isn't it ironic that American company continues to invest outside this country while Asian brand invest more here? Personally, im very thankful company such as Honda, toyota, hyandai just to name few are willing provide jobs and stimulate this economy. Jeremy I'm on iPhone can't link, when I get a chance I will.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by johnnymu

But isn't it ironic that American company continues to invest outside this country while Asian brand invest more here? Personally, im very thankful company such as Honda, toyota, hyandai just to name few are willing provide jobs and stimulate this economy. Jeremy I'm on iPhone can't link, when I get a chance I will.

If you were Japanese, you'd be saying the same thing about Toyota. They're not doing it because they love America, they're doing it because that's where the market is. If they're going to survive (and at this point I doubt they will), GM is going to pursue other markets, and means of manufacturing. Toyota still imports a LOT of cars into the US. WAY more than GM.

[johnnymu]

Does it really matter if they love or hate America? Isn't it enough that they provide jobs? You cannot compare the two countries on automobile motives, one has more options than the other. Japan is currently offerring nonimmigrants incentives to leave their country.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by johnnymu

Does it really matter if they love or hate America? Isn't it enough that they provide jobs? You cannot compare the two countries on automobile motives, one has more options than the other. Japan is currently offerring nonimmigrants incentives to leave their country.

You completely missed the point.

GM's move to produce cars in China is exactly the same as Toyota choosing to produce cars in Mexico or the US if you look at it from the perspective of a Japanese citizen.

There are only so many cars that are sold in the US each year. Toyota's increase in market share has been GM's decrease. Effectively any job Toyota has created has been offset by one lost by GM, expcept probably more so because the new plants that Toyota is building are more automated, and the benefits are less (and benefits create jobs for people outside the auto industry).

Why shouldn't GM pursue other markets and means of becoming competitive again? Does anyone really think throwing a bunch of tax money at the same old corporation is going to fix the problem?

[johnnymu]

The point is the government used American tax payer money to help GM but they turn around lay off jobs and start developing cars made outside USA to sell here. If GM didn't take any hard working tax payer money I don't care what they do, but since they took and broke that promise to pay back I feel it's wrong.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by johnnymu

The point is the government used American tax payer money to help GM but they turn around lay off jobs and start developing cars made outside USA to sell here. If GM didn't take any hard working tax payer money I don't care what they do, but since they took and broke that promise to pay back I feel it's wrong.

So you think the money would have been better spent if they go completely under? What exactly do you want GM to do right now? They're not going to be viable as a company without cutting jobs.

[johnnymu]

In this thread I never mentioning wanting anyone go under or bankrupt, but unfortunately GM has stated they will file next month so it's inevitable. Even before accepting the tarp GM stated jobs would be cut. So knowing all that we know now would you have agreed with these bailout? Personally, I mentioned before let them go bankrupt and allow them to recover much sooner than dragging it out like it has today was a better option

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by johnnymu

Personally, I mentioned before let them go bankrupt and allow them to recover much sooner than dragging it out like it has today was a better option

Once they file, they'll never recover. The people holding secured debt have a legal right to sell assets to recover their money, and that's exactly what's going to happen.

The bailout money was a last ditch effort, and I honestly believe that GM won't be making cars in China, or anywhere else in 6 months. I hate to see it happen (believe me, I'm going to lose a very good job before this is over), but I'm being realistic about it.

With GM and Chrysler both stopping production for bankruptcy proceedings, the suppliers are screwed. There are so many new cars sitting on the lots right now that no one's building anything, and that means they're not buying parts. The parts suppliers are literally starving to death by the week, and they won't survive the shutdowns.

These two bankruptcies are going to change the automotive manufacuturing landscape for a long time to come. Watch what happens to the stock market, and the rest of the economic indicators the month after GM files.

We're about to see the economy shed close to 2 million jobs with these two shutdowns, at a time when unemployment is at record levels. It's not going to be pretty.

[1cleanm6]

I had high hopes for GM, however i doubt they will survive anymore...

This coming from someone who wholesales Saturns...

However well see.....

[johnnymu]

Well for your sake and others I wish you the best and hope you continue with the job you have.

[JB135i]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

Once they file, they'll never recover. The people holding secured debt have a legal right to sell assets to recover their money, and that's exactly what's going to happen.

The bailout money was a last ditch effort, and I honestly believe that GM won't be making cars in China, or anywhere else in 6 months. I hate to see it happen (believe me, I'm going to lose a very good job before this is over), but I'm being realistic about it.

With GM and Chrysler both stopping production for bankruptcy proceedings, the suppliers are screwed. There are so many new cars sitting on the lots right now that no one's building anything, and that means they're not buying parts. The parts suppliers are literally starving to death by the week, and they won't survive the shutdowns.

These two bankruptcies are going to change the automotive manufacuturing landscape for a long time to come. Watch what happens to the stock market, and the rest of the economic indicators the month after GM files.

We're about to see the economy shed close to 2 million jobs with these two shutdowns, at a time when unemployment is at record levels. It's not going to be pretty.

I agree with you somewhat. But please remember that the same number of cars will be sold, they just might not be GM or Chrysler. Those car buyers will/would go to Ford, Toyota, Honda and the rest of the survivors.

Of course there will be a very painful transition period, but after that the car market will stabilize with the new players in better shape than they are now. And those survivors will need to hire a certain portion of those ousted from GM and Chrysler.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by JB135i

I agree with you somewhat. But please remember that the same number of cars will be sold, they just might not be GM or Chrysler. Those car buyers will/would go to Ford, Toyota, Honda and the rest of the survivors.

Of course there will be a very painful transition period, but after that the car market will stabilize with the new players in better shape than they are now. And those survivors will need to hire a certain portion of those ousted from GM and Chrysler.

Eventually the same number of cars will be sold, but the amount of money going into the US economy because of it WILL decrease. The survivors won't hire as many people (due to automation) and they don't pay as well. In addition, a good portion of the profit goes back to the home country.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by johnnymu

Well for your sake and others I wish you the best and hope you continue with the job you have.

Thanks. Fortunatly for me, I'm single with no kids, and I saw this coming months (although not as severe as it's turned out to be) so I'm in decent shape financially.