[CollinsE90]

Originally Posted by Cdnrockies

Even the pros "need" luck.

I agree with you that tournament play is a much smaller portion of their income than the cash games.

You'll see that call multiple times....even with the pros....though a pro would likely be shortstacked if they're pushing with just AQ. Using your example, all those times the Q pops out instead...or they fill a Q straight...or a one card flush, etc., etc. it is luck and only luck that is involved. Look how many times pros lose with pocket rockets....every stat, guide, or crib sheet says they should win....but they don't always.

I agree, but players that play hands wishing for a straight or chasing, usually dont land them and end up losing too. Only time I chase is if I have the nuts which gives me a chance to land a high pair worst case.

There are many types of players on tour with different strategies. Some are better with numbers, some are just born with pure luck(rare, but you know the guys who fall in shit and come up smelling like roses), some are amazing at bluffing. That's when you need to be good at reading those people, to differentiate why those guys are calling.

[mact3333]

Originally Posted by CollinsE90

I agree, but players that play hands wishing for a straight or chasing, usually dont land them and end up losing too. Only time I chase is if I have the nuts which gives me a chance to land a high pair worst case.

There are many types of players on tour with different strategies. Some are better with numbers, some are just born with pure luck(rare, but you know the guys who fall in shit and come up smelling like roses), some are amazing at bluffing. That's when you need to be good at reading those people, to differentiate why those guys are calling.

I take it you dont play much........"only time I chase is if I have the nuts" doesnt make sense...if you have the nuts you arent chasing anything...if you play over the long run a great player can do well by playing a small advantage...but luck always wins over the short and middle term.

And reading people is over rated...you are probably reading their betting pattern more than anything...facial expressions are way over rated imho.

[CollinsE90]

Originally Posted by mact3333

I take it you dont play much........"only time I chase is if I have the nuts" doesnt make sense...if you have the nuts you arent chasing anything...if you play over the long run a great player can do well by playing a small advantage...but luck always wins over the short and middle term.

And reading people is over rated...you are probably reading their betting pattern more than anything...facial expressions are way over rated imho.

There is a 10% chance of hitting a straight at any given time, there is a 43% chance of landing a pair, 23% chance for 2 pair, so if I have the nuts thats a 43% chance of landing a high pair if I dont hit the straight. 43-10 is a much better probability. I dont usually chase long shots, I like to have a contingency plan if possible.

Poker is mainly a numbers game, and the best pro players' know those numbers.

[matthewk]

Originally Posted by CollinsE90

Pro players aren't gambling, they are working. The money they lose in a tournament is peanuts to what they win(usually just the entry fee). I also said they don't "need" luck, but every once in awhile it plays a part. For instance, guy goes all in with A-Q, and guy calls with A-K, and an Ace is all that pops out. Guy with the higher kicker won, but the A-Q was a good call.

2nd

[Cdnrockies]

Originally Posted by CollinsE90

There is a 10% chance of hitting a straight at any given time, there is a 43% chance of landing a pair, 23% chance for 2 pair, so if I have the nuts thats a 43% chance of landing a high pair if I dont hit the straight. 43-10 is a much better probability. I dont usually chase long shots, I like to have a contingency plan if possible.

Poker is mainly a numbers game, and the best pro players' know those numbers.

Your understanding of "the nuts" is wrong.

"The nuts" is the best possible hand that is available on the board. There is no possible chance of losing when holding "the nuts"...it is the winning hand...always.

[choicez]

Originally Posted by CollinsE90

There is a 10% chance of hitting a straight at any given time, there is a 43% chance of landing a pair, 23% chance for 2 pair, so if I have the nuts thats a 43% chance of landing a high pair if I dont hit the straight. 43-10 is a much better probability. I dont usually chase long shots, I like to have a contingency plan if possible.

Poker is mainly a numbers game, and the best pro players' know those numbers.

You're using the term "the nuts" incorrectly. The nuts means your two hole cards are the winning hand on the board and it's unbeatable. You don't know if you have the nuts until the flop or even until the river has been dealt. If you're referring to AA, AK (suited or not), KK or any of the top hands, they're not the nuts but you do have a higher advantage of winning than your competitors, especially if it's heads up, before the flop.

[CollinsE90]

Originally Posted by choicez

You're using the term "the nuts" incorrectly. The nuts means your two hole cards are the winning hand on the board and it's unbeatable. You don't know if you have the nuts until the flop or even until the river has been dealt. If you're referring to AA, AK (suited or not), KK or any of the top hands, they're not the nuts but you do have a higher advantage of winning than your competitors, especially if it's heads up, before the flop.

The way I refer the nuts is the Ace on a possible flush or straight, because if I hit a A high straight and someone had a 9, I automatically win. Same with flush, say 4 hearts are on the table and I have the A of hearts, I have the highest flush and win.

Per wikipedia, the nuts is the strongest possible hand. Doesnt have to be after all of the cards have been flopped, if I have A3 suited, I have a higher chance winning if a flush hits the table because I have the Ace, if I have AK I have the highest chance hitting the highest straight, but if a straight doesnt come out I still have a chance of hitting a pair of A or K.

[Cdnrockies]

Originally Posted by CollinsE90

The way I refer the nuts is the Ace on a possible flush or straight, because if I hit a A high straight and someone had a 9, I automatically win. Same with flush, say 4 hearts are on the table and I have the A of hearts, I have the highest flush and win.

Per wikipedia, the nuts is the strongest possible hand. Doesnt have to be after all of the cards have been flopped, if I have A3 suited, I have a higher chance winning if a flush hits the table because I have the Ace, if I have AK I have the highest chance hitting the highest straight, but if a straight doesnt come out I still have a chance of hitting a pair of A or K.

You're completely and totally wrong....and have been told the correct definition twice already. Believe whatever the fuck you want....but you are wrong.

[choicez]

Originally Posted by CollinsE90

The way I refer the nuts is the Ace on a possible flush or straight, because if I hit a A high straight and someone had a 9, I automatically win. Same with flush, say 4 hearts are on the table and I have the A of hearts, I have the highest flush and win.

Per wikipedia, the nuts is the strongest possible hand. Doesnt have to be after all of the cards have been flopped, if I have A3 suited, I have a higher chance winning if a flush hits the table because I have the Ace, if I have AK I have the highest chance hitting the highest straight, but if a straight doesnt come out I still have a chance of hitting a pair of A or K.

You need to play more poker, my lil grasshopper. You kinda get the term but not really. It's completely incorrect.

Here is an example where the A3 suited doesn't win and you don't have the nuts if you hold these cards.

Flop: 4 diamonds, 5 diamonds and 9 hearts
Turn: Q spades
River: 6 diamonds

You: A,3 diamonds
Me: 7,8 diamonds (the nuts!)

[CollinsE90]

Originally Posted by Cdnrockies

You're completely and totally wrong....and have been told the correct definition twice already. Believe whatever the fuck you want....but you are wrong.

I get what both of you are saying, but I think ahead when I get my hand. If I have 10-3 suited I will typically not play it, because if 4 of that suit hits I wont have the highest flush most likely. You dont have to get offensive and start cursing, because if you reread my goddamn post, I stated, I REFER TO IT THAT WAY.

[CollinsE90]

Originally Posted by choicez

You need to play more poker, my lil grasshopper. You kinda get the term but not really. It's completely incorrect.

Here is an example where the A3 suited doesn't win and you don't have the nuts if you hold these cards.

Flop: 4 diamonds, 5 diamonds and 9 hearts
Turn: Q spades
River: 6 diamonds

You: A,3 diamonds
Me: 7,8 diamonds (the nuts!)

You're correct, but I never guess a straight flush, because it is so rare. If you beat me with a SF, I walk away happy because regardless I would of called it. Because you cant fold an Ace high flush, no one can.

[choicez]

Originally Posted by CollinsE90

You're correct, but I never guess a straight flush, because it is so rare. If you beat me with a SF, I walk away happy because regardless I would of called it. Because you cant fold an Ace high flush, no one can.

It would be tough to fold'em but you also got to remember that somebody might have it so you don't wanna lose your bankroll either on the hand. You gotta remember how much they stayed in the preflop betting and if possible, your opponent. Remember people love playing suited connectors.

[Cdnrockies]

Originally Posted by CollinsE90

You're correct, but I never guess a straight flush, because it is so rare. If you beat me with a SF, I walk away happy because regardless I would of called it. Because you cant fold an Ace high flush, no one can.

If anyone made any move pre-flop, A3 suited shouldn't be being played anyways....like you said earlier....chasing isn't going to get you anywhere.

[choicez]

Originally Posted by Cdnrockies

If anyone made any move pre-flop, A3 suited shouldn't be being played anyways....like you said earlier....chasing isn't going to get you anywhere.

True but I usually will try to see a flop on suited Ace. However, I won't call an all-in or a bet if it's a majority of my chips.

[CollinsE90]

Originally Posted by choicez

It would be tough to fold'em but you also got to remember that somebody might have it so you don't wanna lose your bankroll either on the hand. You gotta remember how much they stayed in the preflop betting and if possible, your opponent. Remember people love playing suited connectors.

True, I just havent played where the stakes are very high which would make me more reluctant to call. If the stakes were 10's, 100's of thousands I would think twice about that last call, but if the stakes were high the guy across from me most likely wouldnt have BS in his hand either(because he is also smart too), because me calling/re-raising would of got him to fold(if it got to all in). It's all a mind game, and so many possible scenarios, why I love it.

[choicez]

Originally Posted by CollinsE90

True, I just havent played where the stakes are very high which would make me more reluctant to call. If the stakes were 10's, 100's of thousands I would think twice about that last call, but if the stakes were high the guy across from me most likely wouldnt have BS in his hand either(because he is also smart too), because me calling/re-raising would of got him to fold(if it got to all in). It's all a mind game, and so many possible scenarios, why I love it.

Indeed. A lawyer, politician and/or a pokers player are the few occupations where you become successful for being a GREAT liar.

[CollinsE90]

Originally Posted by choicez

Indeed. A lawyer, politician and/or a pokers player are the few occupations where you become successful for being a GREAT liar.

Which is why I'm going to law school . But I'm not a bluffer, I might check down a few times to make you think I dont have anything when I do, but I rarely just bluff my way all the way through the hand. I like looking for "tales", emotion before and after the flop. I usually only play when I have something, which can be a big tale too.

edit: But I might bluff if I get the chip lead just to show them I can, since I have some money to lose.

[Cdnrockies]

Originally Posted by CollinsE90

Which is why I'm going to law school . But I'm not a bluffer, I might check down a few times to make you think I dont have anything when I do, but I rarely just bluff my way all the way through the hand. I like looking for "tales", emotion before and after the flop. I usually only play when I have something, which can be a big tale too.

edit: But I might bluff if I get the chip lead just to show them I can, since I have some money to lose.

The term is "tell" not tale. And yes...only playing strong hands is a major tell.

[choicez]

Originally Posted by CollinsE90

The way I refer the nuts is the Ace on a possible flush or straight, because if I hit a A high straight and someone had a 9, I automatically win. Same with flush, say 4 hearts are on the table and I have the A of hearts, I have the highest flush and win.

Per wikipedia, the nuts is the strongest possible hand. Doesnt have to be after all of the cards have been flopped, if I have A3 suited, I have a higher chance winning if a flush hits the table because I have the Ace, if I have AK I have the highest chance hitting the highest straight, but if a straight doesnt come out I still have a chance of hitting a pair of A or K.

Forgot to mention, just because you have the A doesn't mean you have the highest straight. A3 doesn't beat 67 (the nuts) if the board is 2,4,5,Q, 8 (rainbow board- no flush possibilities).

[choicez]

Originally Posted by Elie335i

9.LUCK

+100000000000

I don't care how great a poker player you are, you still need a lot of luck.

[E90SoFlo]

If you play tight you will be loosing more money and winning more often. Only play high percentage hands, in theory you need to win 1 hand every hour to keep blinds from eating you (in most cases)

[CollinsE90]

Originally Posted by choicez

Forgot to mention, just because you have the A doesn't mean you have the highest straight. A3 doesn't beat 67 (the nuts) if the board is 2,4,5,Q, 8 (rainbow board- no flush possibilities).

I used the A3 for the reference, I would never chase a straight with that combo.