[fravel]

I'm having trouble understanding what happened with Hodor in this episode.

How does he have his crippling incident before Bran is even born?

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by fravel

I'm having trouble understanding what happened with Hodor in this episode.

How does he have his crippling incident before Bran is even born?

Because Bran can travel and see time. Last night you learn he can also affect the past which can alter the present and presumably future...which is a pretty big deal.

As an aside, I found a new chant to yell at football games when the defense is playing in the red zone after last night. It'll be a waste if no one thinks to yell Hold The Door, in those situations.

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

Because Bran can travel and see time. Last night you learn he can also affect the past which can alter the present and presumably future...which is a pretty big deal.

As an aside, I found a new chant to yell at football games when the defense is playing in the red zone after last night. It'll be a waste if no one thinks to yell Hold The Door, in those situations.

This.

Since he was connected to the mind of Holdor during the escape, Bran served as a conduit between present-day Holdor and younger Holder, whom he was remote/temporally viewing at the time.

[fravel]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

Because Bran can travel and see time. Last night you learn he can also affect the past which can alter the present and presumably future...which is a pretty big deal.

Maybe; but the 3 eyed-raven told him "the ink is dry". That would imply that Bran can't change the past.

Originally Posted by MKSixer

This.

Since he was connected to the mind of Holdor during the escape, Bran served as a conduit between present-day Holdor and younger Holder, whom he was remote/temporally viewing at the time.

I did some more reading and I'm leaning towards something like this.

Assumption #1: Hodor had the greensight before the accident, but wasn't aware of the skill or trained to use it.

Assumption #2: Bran was existing in a sort of dual-consciousness shared between past and present. Present-Bran hears Meera telling him to warg in to Hodor, and past-Bran interprets that in his vision as the 3-eyed raven telling him to warg into Wyllis. Now we have past-Bran linked to past-Wyllis, and present-Bran linked to present-Hodor. Since past-Bran and present-Bran are really the same mind at the same time, a link is created between Wyllis, Bran and Hodor. Here's where it gets tricky:

Present-Hodor has lived through this already, and as per usual, he's looking for somewhere to hide. When the link is created, Hodor senses Wyllis and tries to push his consciousness into his past-self to escape the present, and his past-consciousness gets sent to his present-body. When "Hodor" is killed, it's Wyllis's conciousness that dies with his body, and Hodor's conciousness re-lives its life in the broken shell of Wyllis, forever trapped in the memory of dying trying to Hold The Door.

The ink is dry.

[silvergray545]

Originally Posted by fravel

Maybe; but the 3 eyed-raven told him "the ink is dry". That would imply that Bran can't change the past.



I did some more reading and I'm leaning towards something like this.

Assumption #1: Hodor had the greensight before the accident, but wasn't aware of the skill or trained to use it.

Assumption #2: Bran was existing in a sort of dual-consciousness shared between past and present. Present-Bran hears Meera telling him to warg in to Hodor, and past-Bran interprets that in his vision as the 3-eyed raven telling him to warg into Wyllis. Now we have past-Bran linked to past-Wyllis, and present-Bran linked to present-Hodor. Here's where it gets tricky:

Present-Hodor has lived through this already, so when the link is created, he tries to push his consciousness into his past-self, and his past-consciousness got sent to his present-body. When "Hodor" is killed, it's Wyllis's conciousness that dies with his body, and Hodor's conciousness re-lives its life in the broken shell of Wyllis.

The ink is dry.

You hit the nail on the head.

[Michall]

Originally Posted by Maniac0908

Please find the chick who played sansa in the play. The one with boobies

Eline Powell

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by fravel

Maybe; but the 3 eyed-raven told him "the ink is dry". That would imply that Bran can't change the past.

He was wrong, he realizes Bran is more powerful than he is. We know he's wrong since Bran is the reason why Wylis has a mental breakdown and only says Hodor.

[fravel]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

He was wrong, he realizes Bran is more powerful than he is. We know he's wrong since Bran is the reason why Wylis has a mental breakdown and only says Hodor.

Is Bran the cause though, or did his presence simply allow the link to be created between Hodor and Wyllis? If my first assumption is correct and Wyllis had the greensight, then the theory holds that Hodor "did it to himself", Bran was just a facilitator. I guess what I'm saying is that I don't think Bran has the ability to alter the past specifically, but that there can be consequences to his observational powers. That is, he can't intentionally influence anything, but things may happen that would not have happened if he hadn't been observing.

[silvergray545]

Originally Posted by Michall

Eline Powell

Would smash. And would not pull out.

View post on imgur.com

[bosstones]

Originally Posted by Blipit_

So is this show that great? I have never seen a single episode. Is it worth the trouble where I need to binge-watch to catch up?

I did the same with Breaking bad, binge-watched while I traveled and caught up to the final season midway through. F*cking amazing show. Is Game of Thrones as good as Breaking Bad?

Simply stated, yes. It starts slow for a few episodes and has it peaks and lulls like every show, but by and large it is a great show with a lot of depth and themes. Maybe not as great as Sifl 'n Olly, but a great show nonetheless. On my personal list, I put it above Breaking Bad and The Wire. Perhaps on par, but not a direct compare, w/ Justified.

Originally Posted by fravel

Present-Hodor has lived through this already, and as per usual, he's looking for somewhere to hide. When the link is created, Hodor senses Wyllis and tries to push his consciousness into his past-self to escape the present, and his past-consciousness gets sent to his present-body. When "Hodor" is killed, it's Wyllis's conciousness that dies with his body, and Hodor's conciousness re-lives its life in the broken shell of Wyllis, forever trapped in the memory of dying trying to Hold The Door.

Interesting... I hadn't considered this but it is a bit like the chicken and the egg. At some point, Hodor had to become Hodor-like. There must be some other time altering event that occurred/occurs to do that otherwise I don't see how this works. I just figured Bran's warging into 'present day' Hodor screwed up the latter's past self since there was some link between past/present.

[fecurtis]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CjGB6YZWYAApwvs.jpg

[Haywood]

Originally Posted by silvergray545

Would smash. And would not pull out.

View post on imgur.com

Not gorgeous, but those tits are an 11.

[carzaddict]

let me see if i understand this.

- Hodors real name is Wyllis. got it.
- Bran can go back in the past and alter the past. got it.
- Bran went to the past, young Wyllis had a seizure, and as a result of what was going on in present time, he was screaming "hold the door" which turned into Hodor.

........so does that mean there's some circular time traveling going on? because everyones been calling him hodor since season 1. Bran has changed the past from the future?

[jtodd_fl]

Biggest plot hole in GoT

[infamousdiz]

Originally Posted by bosstones

Simply stated, yes. It starts slow for a few episodes and has it peaks and lulls like every show, but by and large it is a great show with a lot of depth and themes. Maybe not as great as Sifl 'n Olly, but a great show nonetheless. On my personal list, I put it above Breaking Bad and The Wire. Perhaps on par, but not a direct compare, w/ Justified.



Interesting... I hadn't considered this but it is a bit like the chicken and the egg. At some point, Hodor had to become Hodor-like. There must be some other time altering event that occurred/occurs to do that otherwise I don't see how this works. I just figured Bran's warging into 'present day' Hodor screwed up the latter's past self since there was some link between past/present.

blasphemy

Did anyone watch the end where RR martin told the writers of hodar, I thought it was a great way to tell a story.

I do not understand the 3 eyed ravens purpose in the world, like wise branns, are they to tell the truth and real stories, give man insight?

The white walker king is he the lord of lights nemesis? what would their end game be if they countered man?

the children of the forest they all dead?

This season is fantastic because i love the mythology in story telling and depth to any adventure. cant wait for episode 10 where they come with the hammer.....they could make this series go for 20 years

Is Jon the real chosen one? or is dinerueyaus?

who thinks Aria is going to just learn the ways of "the face less man" and use it for her own purpose?

Forecast away.

[fravel]

Originally Posted by bosstones

Interesting... I hadn't considered this but it is a bit like the chicken and the egg. At some point, Hodor had to become Hodor-like. There must be some other time altering event that occurred/occurs to do that otherwise I don't see how this works. I just figured Bran's warging into 'present day' Hodor screwed up the latter's past self since there was some link between past/present.

Having your mind warged is supposed to be an incredibly traumatic experience, it wouldn't be unreasonable to guess that the act of Bran trying to control Wyllis actually 'broke' him (perhaps the consequence of warging into someone in the past?). That was also why I included the possibility of Wyllis having been a greenseer; remember Jojen? He was also a greenseer and suffered headaches/seizures when he was getting a vision. Perhaps Bran didn't jump into Wyllis at all - perhaps Wyllis had a vision and glimpsed into the future that Bran was living in. Seeing the prophecy of your own death could fuck you up pretty good.

Originally Posted by carzaddict

let me see if i understand this.

- Hodors real name is Wyllis. got it.
- Bran can go back in the past and alter the past. got it.
- Bran went to the past, young Wyllis had a seizure, and as a result of what was going on in present time, he was screaming "hold the door" which turned into Hodor.

........so does that mean there's some circular time traveling going on? because everyones been calling him hodor since season 1. Bran has changed the past from the future?

In my effort to talk through the previous response I'm changing my theory. Bran didn't break Wyllis. Wyllis was an untrained greenseer, he had a vision of his death and it broke him.

Bran was looking back in time observing Wyllis, and Wyllis was looking forward in time observing Bran's escape and his own fate. They portrayed it in a way that implied that Bran hurt Wyllis, but I believe Wyllis's incident happens with or without Bran observing.

The ink is dry.

[AW335TT]

Producers explained the situation with Hodor at the end of the episode. His entire life was basically leading up to that moment where he saves Bran.

Bran didn't alter anything.

[wrickem]

And a little less obvious because of the big things that have been happening, but no less important... in last week's episode, Tormund was eating his leg-of-whatever all sexy-like and making eyes at Brienne. This week, he was looking all moon-eyed at her again.

I was kind of hoping that her and Podrick were going to get together, I think she deserves to try out some of those mad skills that Podrick possesses. Whores don't even charge him! Sure, she's a big girl (but she didn't look too bad at all when she was naked in the bath with Jaime) and I think she definitely deserves some kind of reward.

[fravel]

Originally Posted by wrickem

And a little less obvious because of the big things that have been happening, but no less important... in last week's episode, Tormund was eating his leg-of-whatever all sexy-like and making eyes at Brienne. This week, he was looking all moon-eyed at her again.

I was kind of hoping that her and Podrick were going to get together, I think she deserves to try out some of those mad skills that Podrick possesses. Whores don't even charge him! Sure, she's a big girl (but she didn't look too bad at all when she was naked in the bath with Jaime) and I think she definitely deserves some kind of reward.

Podrick is dead in the books, and was already a pretty minor character, I see him being one of those people that just kinda goes away.

[AW335TT]

I also felt bad for Arya when she was watching them act out her fathers death and everyone was laughing..

[wrickem]

Originally Posted by fravel

Podrick is dead in the books, and was already a pretty minor character, I see him being one of those people that just kinda goes away.

I kind of thought he was gone, he is pretty minor in the series too, but then I noticed him last night. Still I'd like him to get with Brienne at least once

Since you're a reader, you may appreciate this. I work for a major publisher and one of our imprints publishes a ton of George RR Martin's other books. When I asked the publisher why we didn't do this series he said "it was packaged as a trilogy, and we just didn't have 250K at that time". I've noticed an "untitled trilogy" by GRRM on our database starting in 2018. I guess we found "trilogy" money.

[fravel]

Originally Posted by wrickem

Since you're a reader, you may appreciate this. I work for a major publisher and one of our imprints publishes a ton of George RR Martin's other books. When I asked the publisher why we didn't do this series he said "it was packaged as a trilogy, and we just didn't have 250K at that time". I've noticed an "untitled trilogy" by GRRM on our database starting in 2018. I guess we found "trilogy" money.

Hahaha, someone is probably kicking themselves for not finding the money before!