[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX

Hate to break it to you but the best selling car (non truck) in the US right now is the Model Y and the Model 3 is 5th on the list from a 10 year old car company that doesn't even advertise.....so yeah, they are selling like hot cakes....
Tesla with it's whopping 4 models to chose from is set to outsale BMW and Mercedes combined in 2023....btw, no government is forcing anything as of today....

I don't have a dog in this hunt as I have more gas cars than EV's and love them, but it's not hard to see and figure out why Tesla is currently outselling BMW, Audi, Mercedes, etc...no need to get bent about it, it is what it is and facts are facts, no need to argue them unless you refuse to believe them

I see the Y is the top selling car but I think there's more to the numbers than that. https://www.statista.com/statistics/...vehicle-sales/

[Socal_R8]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

I see the Y is the top selling car but I think there's more to the numbers than that. https://www.statista.com/statistics/...vehicle-sales/

either way, it's pretty indicative that they are in fact "selling like hot cakes"

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX

either way, it's pretty indicative that they are in fact "selling like hot cakes"

It is hard to deny Tesla has become a very successful car manufacturer. Just wait until they unveil a sub $30k EV and make profit on it(unlike legacy automakers).

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX

either way, it's pretty indicative that they are in fact "selling like hot cakes"

So I have nothing against Tesla or any other manufacture for that matter. I just don't like the idea that the government is going to force the adaption of EV's given that they don't suit everyones needs/requirements.

So just to put it in perspective, 11,112,751 passenger vehicles sold in the US in 2022. Of that Teslas total sales are 536,069, so 4.8% of the market if my math is correct.

[Socal_R8]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

So I have nothing against Tesla or any other manufacture for that matter. I just don't like the idea that the government is going to force the adaption of EV's given that they don't suit everyones needs/requirements.

So just to put it in perspective, 11,112,751 passenger vehicles sold in the US in 2022. Of that Teslas total sales are 536,069, so 4.8% of the market if my math is correct.

like i said, I don't think the government or manufacturing is ready to force them on anybody, but 2035 is 12 years away and a lot can change by then and most likely the gas cars will be for enthusiasts and EV's will probably rule the market for the masses by then anyways...

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX

like i said, I don't think the government or manufacturing is ready to force them on anybody, but 2035 is 12 years away and a lot can change by then and most likely the gas cars will be for enthusiasts and EV's will probably rule the market for the masses by then anyways...

I have no issue with letting the market determine what the consumer wants. Unless EV's can overcome the challenges that they are currently faced with I think a lot of people won't buy them because they won't suit their needs, I can see EV's fitting the bill for most in the cities, but move out of the city and the needs change. Time will tell I guess.

[KRS_SN]

sure someone will moan about not having to 'step in a windswept forecourt ' or starting the day with 100% charge or my ev goes very fast in a straight line. Bunch of deluded fools.

[KRS_SN]

Btw we have Efthreeoh whose done 400 plus k in his car and I've done a miserly 80k plus miles on mine(f15x5 30d/35d) over nearly 10 years still got 500 plus mile range..seriously newly minted EV fanboys on leases have no clue how their cars will depreciate like a stone because everyone and their granny has the same frumpy thing that no-one wants to own one beyond its warranty period unlike ice.

[KRS_SN]

Now for a traditional manufacturer who is going to do some traditional stuff.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX

Hate to break it to you but the best selling car (non truck) in the US right now is the Model Y and the Model 3 is 5th on the list from a 10 year old car company that doesn't even advertise.....so yeah, they are selling like hot cakes....
Tesla with it's whopping 4 models to chose from is set to outsale BMW and Mercedes combined in 2023....btw, no government is forcing anything as of today....

I don't have a dog in this hunt as I have more gas cars than EV's and love them, but it's not hard to see and figure out why Tesla is currently outselling BMW, Audi, Mercedes, etc...no need to get bent about it, it is what it is and facts are facts, no need to argue them unless you refuse to believe them

Well, let's do some market analysis. The Model Y sold for 2023 Q1 a nice round 85,000 units. The next best sales of that CUV class was the RAV4 at 84,704; so it is not like the Model Y walked away from the Toyota in unit volume. Then consider the next two CUV in that class: Nissan Rouge at 76,499, and Honda CR-V at 67,241. If it is considered those class of CUV buyers cross shopped the Tesla EV as a consideration, the three ICE CUVs combined smoked the EV CUV in unit sales.

Elon himself said in the interview referenced a few pages back that Tesla is adjusting MSRP based on demand curves. This is exactly what the legacy manufacturers do, it's just obfuscated by the dealership price incentives scheme. So that says Tesla sales have leveled and joined the sales adjustment forces the market experiences over time. Oh, and the Feds stack the deck for the EV...

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by M3WC

It is hard to deny Tesla has become a very successful car manufacturer. Just wait until they unveil a sub $30k EV and make profit on it(unlike legacy automakers).

I hope they do too, but I just don't see it happening. Batteries are just too expensive to manufacture.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I hope they do too, but I just don't see it happening. Batteries are just too expensive to manufacture.

I’ll tell you what man I hope for success for Elon Musk. I suspect battery technology will change overtime. I hope it does. I hope all of our concerns that we’ve had over this go away. I would like to see electric vehicles actually become a viable option for every American.

As I’ve said before, right now, it’s just a cool extra car to have an upper middle-class families current fleets. I also suspect that for many Americans it’s just a “look at how green I am” to the neighbors fleet addition. What I still can’t get over and what scares the crap out of me, is there are so many Americans, including many right here on this thread that have zero problem with governments around the world, forcing this on the population. Makes me wonder what else they would be OK with government forcing on them. I bet many of the same people fell right into the herd mentality during the overbearing Covid restrictions. I bet many of them were enthusiastic about those restrictions. Just scary.

Of course, none of these concerns of mine, have anything to do with me, welcoming different technologies to the automotive world. The more competition, the better I say. Let capitalism rule the day and better battery technology and charging technology will absolutely come faster than what government restrictions and mandates will ever produce. I assure you of that.

We’ve come to the point in our country, where freedom, including economic freedom has been so taken for granted by our populace, that it appears it will be very simple for powerful people to take it away from us, without most even noticing until it’s completely gone.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Patton250

I’ll tell you what man I hope for success for Elon Musk. I suspect battery technology will change overtime. I hope it does. I hope all of our concerns that we’ve had over this go away. I would like to see electric vehicles actually become a viable option for every American.

As I’ve said before, right now, it’s just a cool extra car to have an upper middle-class families current fleets. I also suspect that for many Americans it’s just a “look at how green I am” to the neighbors fleet addition. What I still can’t get over and what scares the crap out of me, is there are so many Americans, including many right here on this thread that have zero problem with governments around the world, forcing this on the population. Makes me wonder what else they would be OK with government forcing on them. I bet many of the same people fell right into the herd mentality during the overbearing Covid restrictions. I bet many of them were enthusiastic about those restrictions. Just scary.

Of course, none of these concerns of mine, have anything to do with me, welcoming different technologies to the automotive world. The more competition, the better I say. Let capitalism rule the day and better battery technology and charging technology will absolutely come faster than what government restrictions and mandates will ever produce. I assure you of that.

We’ve come to the point in our country, where freedom, including economic freedom has been so taken for granted by our populace, that it appears it will be very simple for powerful people to take it away from us, without most even noticing until it’s completely gone.

We are the offspring of the generation who fought WWII, so we have the correct understanding as you espoused above. It's now a generation gas issue.

But my concern is also the adjacent impacts of the petrochemical industry and electrical generation industry. The mass adoption of BEV is going to have large price impacts on home heating oil, gasoline, jet fuel, and electricity. All of those impacts are going to make life more expensive, which most people do not realize. Sell a pure serial hybrid EV, and I'll buy 3 of them, tomorrow.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

We are the offspring of the generation who fought WWII, so we have the correct understanding as you espoused above. It's now a generation gas issue.

But my concern is also the adjacent impacts of the petrochemical industry and electrical generation industry. The mass adoption of BEV is going to have large price impacts on home heating oil, gasoline, jet fuel, and electricity. All of those impacts are going to make life more expensive, which most people do not realize. Sell a pure serial hybrid EV, and I'll buy 3 of them, tomorrow.

But as you have seen from the threads token troll as well as many others, they don’t give a crap about that. These are all middle class or upper middle class that have put all their faith and trust in government. Of course, the poor don’t pay attention, and will be affected the most by this in the end, but so long as people of means enthusiastically, allow this to happen, there’s no telling how far it might go. Lastly, remember, the people who are implementing this don’t give a crap either about all the things and concerns you mentioned above either. You and I both know this is more about control than it is about the environment. What will happen is we will end up reacting to all the problems this causes rather than being proactive. Government interfering in capitalism would be equivalent to Tim Cook, putting me in charge of accounting at Apple. Lol. A total disaster.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX

either way, it's pretty indicative that they are in fact "selling like hot cakes"

It will be that way for a while. And because elon has dropped the price on his models, jesus christ the dude is fucking smart so whatever small market other car makers have with their EV at their lower price point, here comes elon to the rescue by offering BETTER EV's at their lower price point as well LOL.

I know elon can't be on top forever but he will be for many more years to come. ALmost everyone i know wants a tesla, or an EV. My coworker just go his ID4 which is pretty sweet. However i don't trust VW's and their reliability. Tesla definitely has that beat. As well as range, performance and the network.


This is fun!

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by Patton250

But as you have seen from the threads token troll as well as many others, they don’t give a crap about that. These are all middle class or upper middle class that have put all their faith and trust in government. Of course, the poor don’t pay attention, and will be affected the most by this in the end, but so long as people of means enthusiastically, allow this to happen, there’s no telling how far it might go. Lastly, remember, the people who are implementing this don’t give a crap either about all the things and concerns you mentioned above either. You and I both know this is more about control than it is about the environment. What will happen is we will end up reacting to all the problems this causes rather than being proactive. Government interfering in capitalism would be equivalent to Tim Cook, putting me in charge of accounting at Apple. Lol. A total disaster.

It is possible to get an EV because you want to try out a potentially really fun car. It is possible to also not trust government or desire the blunt hand of government to intervene in markets.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Patton250

But as you have seen from the threads token troll as well as many others, they don’t give a crap about that. These are all middle class or upper middle class that have put all their faith and trust in government. Of course, the poor don’t pay attention, and will be affected the most by this in the end, but so long as people of means enthusiastically, allow this to happen, there’s no telling how far it might go. Lastly, remember, the people who are implementing this don’t give a crap either about all the things and concerns you mentioned above either. You and I both know this is more about control than it is about the environment. What will happen is we will end up reacting to all the problems this causes rather than being proactive. Government interfering in capitalism would be equivalent to Tim Cook, putting me in charge of accounting at Apple. Lol. A total disaster.

Worried we're going to get booted for politics... we should probably go PM...

I really think it's no deeper than climate fear, the control issue is just a derived requirement to accomplish the change to BEV. Whole thing is just stupid; let the market drive the change. If the majority of people think climate catastrophe is real, then they'll drive the change organically through a market shift. I'm 100% for using carbon fuel resources as efficiently as possible. Hybrids, especially pure ICE series hybrids is the solution that wins for everyone. Camping onto just BEV as the solution is nearsighted.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Worried were going to get booted for politics... we should probably go PM...

I really think it's no deeper than climate fear, control issue is just a derived requirement to accomplish the change to BEV. Whole thing is just stupid, just let the market drive the change. If the majority of people think climate catastrophe is real, then they'll drive the change organically through a market shift. I'm 100% for using carbon fuel resources as efficiently as possible. Hybrids, especially pure ICE series hybrids is the solution that wins for everyone. Camping onto just BEV as the solution is nearsighted.

No worries but there’s nothing political about my statement. I just listed facts . Be no different if I said that, I pay taxes to government. Electric vehicles have been put in place by world governments. That’s a fact. I doubt very seriously it’s going to offend anyone here that’s for that. I know it doesn’t offend anyone who is against it. But if you think we can get in trouble, I’ll just not come back to this thread again. I guess whether it’s political or not is subjective.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by gblansten

It is possible to get an EV because you want to try out a potentially really fun car. It is possible to also not trust government or desire the blunt hand of government to intervene in markets.

I completely agree with your first part. In fact, I’m going to do just that. Probably next year. The second part is tyrannical in my opinion. I wouldn’t trust them with my bicycle.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by Patton250

I completely agree with your first part. In fact, I’m going to do just that. Probably next year. The second part is tyrannical in my opinion. I wouldn’t trust them with my bicycle.

I agree with you on the latter. I meant to say that one can like certain EVs but not want government to force the situation.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by gblansten

I agree with you on the latter. I meant to say that one can like certain EVs but not want government to force the situation.

...or them fining car manufacturers heavily if they don't meet ev sell targets.

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

...or them fining car manufacturers heavily if they don't meet ev sell targets.

Exactly, if the consumer doesn't want to buy a product how will punishing the manufacture/dealer solve the problem?