[blackpear]

Originally Posted by NervoS

Income tax is one thing, sales + excise taxes on car purchases - is another. AFAIK, GST is 9% (sales tax) and excise tax on cars is 20% in Singapore. Cars there are luxury things.

For my X3 order in the UK, I pay 20% vat tax (£10,000) and the road licence tax is £680 a year . All out of already taxed income.

[avi66]

Originally Posted by blackpear

For my X3 order in the UK, I pay 20% vat tax (£10,000) and the road licence tax is £680 a year . All out of already taxed income.

Although you don’t see it as a consumer line item there also 10% import duty tax in the price before VAT. Then there’s annual VED, which is increased for the first 5 years due to the MRSP being over £40k.

[Zirnitra]

I have decided to downsize from the X5 to X3. I was very nervous because a lot of the views on here were really bad. I had a test drive and to my surprise - pleased. I took the iconic noise off and the noise the exhaust gave was pretty good and turning it on sounded like a grand Prix car but pleasant. The car was very quick, did not roll going hard into corners and seemed to stick to the road extremely well. I know the engine is not a true M but it was pretty good.

The inside was ok, coming from owning a X5, and the seats and layout were good. The inside door handles did look cheapish but overall, much better than pictures i had seen.

So, I decided to order one, should arrive in November or December at latest. I chose the car in frozen pure grey which was not what I had planned to do but saw a X4 in it and it was hypnotic - some alien like metal lol - although not like the tesla truck. Went with 21 inch black wheels.

I'll probably get hissed at by my BMW V12 mate for model and color but hey ho.

[Cortexiphan]

Originally Posted by geddylee

You know BMW has a problem on its hands when people have to post that the car is not is bad as they expected.

More like we have a problem with trolls.
Before anyone even see the car, they fill all threads with hate.

BMW doesn't have a problem. They never released a 'bad' car. They had some misfires like XM, but that wasn't 'bad' either.
Trolls' mental health is what is actually problematic.

[tofublox3]

singapore local dealer finally have private viewing for the g45. managed to see in flesh the xdrive20 base trim, m sport and m50. the interior plastic though looks cheap but the build is relatively good. at least it isnt flimsy. the jewel box storage is bigger than i thought which is nice. the vegenza seat is comfortable but of course with the merino leather it smells better as well. no regret to go with the m sport pro package with the shadowline lights makes it more menacing

[geddylee]

Originally Posted by Cortexiphan

More like we have a problem with trolls.
Before anyone even see the car, they fill all threads with hate.

BMW doesn't have a problem. They never released a 'bad' car. They had some misfires like XM, but that wasn't 'bad' either.
Trolls' mental health is what is actually problematic.

As someone who has purchased over 10
Brand new BMW’s over the past 20 years I can assure you I am not a troll.

I did look at the car and I do think the interior material and design choices are terrible for the brand. Your mileage may vary of course. Some people like Tesla’s and I just wish BMW wasn’t trying to copy them by cutting costs to the point that all that’s left is a B58 and a screen.

My belief is in the long run this will be a mistake and they will no longer have ways to stand out from the competition let alone compete as a luxury brand. Of course I could be wrong.

[Cortexiphan]

Originally Posted by geddylee

As someone who has purchased over 10
Brand new BMW’s over the past 20 years I can assure you I am not a troll.

I did look at the car and I do think the interior material and design choices are terrible for the brand. Your mileage may vary of course. Some people like Tesla’s and I just wish BMW wasn’t trying to copy them by cutting costs to the point that all that’s left is a B58 and a screen.

My believe is in the long run this will be a mistake and they will no longer have ways to stand out from the competition let alone compete as a luxury brand. Of course I could be wrong.

What you're writing is not trolling. But I don't agree.

'Standing out of competition as a luxury item' was BMWs problem until late 2010s. They had the worst interior among germans, worst build, worst road &wind noise, and average reliability. They were better to drive, had better engines and drivetrain; but in terms of 'luxury' they were behind. Not anymore.

They just started to have ways to stand out from competition in terms of luxury in the last few years: it's mentioned in every comparison: BMWs are better in terms of rattles & creaks, they have less road noise, less wind noise. All of which were worst than competition in 90s, 2000s and 2010s.

On top of that, BMWs are scoring higher than all the competitors (even Japanese) for the first time ever in history (ref. Consumer Reports). On top of that, BMW has never been this much ahead their competition in terms of sales and critical acclaim. When they compare 3 with A4 or C; 5 with E or A6, iX with EQS and E-Tron, X5 with GLE and Q7; you don't even have to look anymore. BMW wins by default. And when this new X3 (which is better than the old one by all available reviews) will be compared to GLC and Q5, it will definitely win, without a doubt. And BMW sales have never been this much ahead of their direct competition for this long.

[geddylee]

Originally Posted by Cortexiphan

What you're writing is not trolling. But I don't agree.

'Standing out of competition as a luxury item' was BMWs problem until late 2010s. They had the worst interior among germans, worst build, worst road &wind noise, and average reliability. They were better to drive, had better engines and drivetrain; but in terms of 'luxury' they were behind. Not anymore.

They just started to have ways to stand out from competition in terms of luxury in the last few years: it's mentioned in every comparison: BMWs are better in terms of rattles & creaks, they have less road noise, less wind noise. All of which were worst than competition in 90s, 2000s and 2010s.

On top of that, BMWs are scoring higher than all the competitors (even Japanese) for the first time ever in history (ref. Consumer Reports). On top of that, BMW has never been this much ahead their competition in terms of sales and critical acclaim. When they compare 3 with A4 or C; 5 with E or A6, iX with EQS and E-Tron, X5 with GLE and Q7; you don't even have to look anymore. BMW wins by default. And when this new X3 (which is better than the old one by all available reviews) will be compared to GLC and Q5, it will definitely win, without a doubt. And BMW sales have never been this much ahead of their direct competition for this long.

Some of us yearn for the days when they stood out for the way they drove rather than the isolation chambers they are now.

They are objectively better cars, certainly way more reliable. They are more quiet also. But the 3 series as an example has seen a lot of cost cutting. Compare the soft touch materials of a E46 to a G20 and you will find way more hard plastics on the current model.

I’m probably just getting old and crotchety, but to me the current lineup is lacking cars that give you anything emotionally.

I tried to like an M2 and I bought an IS500 instead. I’d rather drive something slower that makes you feel something than a giant screen and an interior that is the same as every other BMW on the road. It takes the special part of the experience away. This is just my two cents, and I know I am not alone. This where the objectively better cars aren’t always the best choices, it’s all in what you want out the experience.

Another big tablet with no mechanical engineering or switches in the interior and I’m choosing the alternative every day of the week.

[arunr55]

Originally Posted by geddylee

Some of us yearn for the days when they stood out for the way they drove rather than the isolation chambers they are now.

They are objectively better cars, certainly way more reliable. They are more quiet also. But the 3 series as an example has seen a lot of cost cutting. Compare the soft touch materials of a E46 to a G20 and you will find way more hard plastics on the current model.

I’m probably just getting old and crotchety, but to me the current lineup is lacking cars that give you anything emotionally.

I tried to like an M2 and I bought an IS500 instead. I’d rather drive something slower that makes you feel something than a giant screen and an interior that is the same as every other BMW on the road. It takes the special part of the experience away. This is just my two cents, and I know I am not alone. This where the objectively better cars aren’t always the best choices, it’s all in what you want out the experience.

Another big tablet with no mechanical engineering or switches in the interior and I’m choosing the alternative every day of the week.

I feel your post is contradictory. BMW still stands out better in terms of the driving experience, it’s not just about isolation chambers. And in which way IS500 drives better than an M2.

[blackpear]

Originally Posted by geddylee

Some of us yearn for the days when they stood out for the way they drove rather than the isolation chambers they are now.

They are objectively better cars, certainly way more reliable. They are more quiet also. But the 3 series as an example has seen a lot of cost cutting. Compare the soft touch materials of a E46 to a G20 and you will find way more hard plastics on the current model.

I’m probably just getting old and crotchety, but to me the current lineup is lacking cars that give you anything emotionally.

I tried to like an M2 and I bought an IS500 instead. I’d rather drive something slower that makes you feel something than a giant screen and an interior that is the same as every other BMW on the road. It takes the special part of the experience away. This is just my two cents, and I know I am not alone. This where the objectively better cars aren’t always the best choices, it’s all in what you want out the experience.

Another big tablet with no mechanical engineering or switches in the interior and I’m choosing the alternative every day of the week.

Let’s be honest, I remember some of those soft surfaces back in the day. They were a thin layer of foam with an even thinner layer of pvc over the top which did not wear well. Sometimes it split and sometimes the dashboard buckled after a few years in the heat. Great gaps appeared at the joins which never went back. And it all rattled and squeaked. Yes, those were the best of days.

[avi66]

Originally Posted by blackpear

Let’s be honest, I remember some of those soft surfaces back in the day. They were a thin layer of foam with an even thinner layer of pvc over the top which did not wear well. Sometimes it split and sometimes the dashboard buckled after a few years in the heat. Great gaps appeared at the joins which never went back. And it all rattled and squeaked. Yes, those were the best of days.

I don’t recall any of that on recent premium brand cars I used, which had plastics that looked and felt good, and didn’t rattle. Heck, even the panel gaps were good. 👍

[blackpear]

Originally Posted by avi66

I don’t recall any of that on recent premium brand cars I used, which had plastics that looked and felt good, and didn’t rattle. Heck, even the panel gaps were good. 👍

You must be too young to remember. I’m talking 70s and 80s.

[avi66]

Originally Posted by blackpear

You must be too young to remember. I’m talking 70s and 80s.

I remember my dads car had vinyl seats, and he could even repair most things.

[hotwasabipeas]

Originally Posted by avi66

I remember my dads car had vinyl seats

What do you think Veganza is?

[avi66]

Originally Posted by hotwasabipeas

What do you think Veganza is?

I know what Veganza, Sensatec, Sensafin etc is LOL.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by avi66

I know what Veganza, Sensatec, Sensafin etc is LOL.

the shift away from leather to premium rubber in 60-70k cars is beyond absurd imho lol... i genuinelly at that point would prefer some sort of very premium cloth

[avi66]

Originally Posted by ASAP

the shift away from leather to premium rubber in 60-70k cars is beyond absurd imho lol... i genuinelly at that point would prefer some sort of very premium cloth

It’s a cheaper petro chemical based solution, that means more profit, if carefully crafted with a green wash marketing narrative.

The BMW cloth option is harsh, and made from recycled something or other.

IIRC lower trim/carpet area is recycled fishing nets.

[ModernAngel]

Originally Posted by ASAP

the shift away from leather to premium rubber in 60-70k cars is beyond absurd imho lol... i genuinelly at that point would prefer some sort of very premium cloth

To be fair, if we go back to 2003 when the X3 was first introduced, $70K in today's dollars was worth only $41K.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by ModernAngel

To be fair, if we go back to 2003 when the X3 was first introduced, $70K in today's dollars was worth only $41K.

yes but leather was a $500 option at the time and leatherette didn't yet have widespread usage

[WifeBeforeCar]

Is the new M50 lighter with more horsepower than the M40i?

[Musashi]

Originally Posted by Cortexiphan

More like we have a problem with trolls.
Before anyone even see the car, they fill all threads with hate.

BMW doesn't have a problem. They never released a 'bad' car. They had some misfires like XM, but that wasn't 'bad' either.
Trolls' mental health is what is actually problematic.

Go drive the 2 series Grand Coupe, 2 doors, already being investigated by regulators, the big brake pedal close to the gas, size 9.5 higher feet you jam inside and cannot brake properly. Oh and the car is made for small, very small people, I am a cyclist fit athletic and could not fit in the seat, the opened max bolstered part pushing me out. Made for Asia (despite them having a long wheelbase X3). Also it nearly threw me into the wall x2 the LDA thinking I was changing lanes. Some folks had crashes.

That is the least BMW non premiums they ever- and first- released.

[Musashi]

I just turned down an incredible 340 km X3 M50 demo offer at my local dealership, and they tried everything to convince me.

1st, marginal more room 2nd row, 2" more than the G05 X5. Cayenne and just about any other SUV has 5" more than the X5!

2. Worse, the rear door now lacks the protective arch, and the door slit sits above the tire. US owners that returned their new X3 M05, days in, mentioned water getting in. Yes, winter driven demo had salt and ice forming through there moving up to the seal. That corner will be sanded and rusted cannot really be ppf. Bad bad bad oversight. Quite frankly, dumb, dumb dumb.

3, the SEAT IS TOO NARROW. At my limit and am below average height and runner cycling fit. The open bolster parts have me at the limit- not as bad as the 2 GrandCoupe, but concerningly smaller than my F30 and any prev gen X3 X5. Digging around with well connected people, apparently the interior was indeed designed with the Asian market in mind (make the interior more snug around them), and for the Asian submarket outside Asia. Bottom line: if you are 5'11 and taller, regular swimmer/runner or simply fat YOU WILL NOT FIT IN THE X3 G45 FRONT SEATS. Not comfortably.

4. The air vents are designed to point inside, so US reports of poor cabin cooling and esp rain humidity window mist, must be spot on. In the cold, the vents could not warm the DRV PX windows.

5. The distance between gas and brake pedals is 1" narrower than previous generations and the brake pedal sits a bit further out. Now the 2 grand coupe is so bad that I got regulators involved as my 9.5 sized winter boot got jammed there forcing me to use sneakers on another loaner trip to work. Serious risk. But in the X3 is better, for me, but anyone with shoes size 11+ or 10 with work boots may have to pay attention to that. Not as bad as the 2 Grand Coupe.

Finally, the B58 is incredible the car a sporty SUV, but it was harsh as H with 21” rims, almost felt marginally softer than my firm Bilstein 335i. Potholes etc I felt them . Drove after that a Lexus 350 and a Cayenne base and they make the X3 look bad- except the engine.

So if these hold for the X5 it risks turning the flop the present X3 is and people opt for prev generation fully loaded X3. The G05 X5 may end up- being the more and better SUV VW the next X5

If you add the plastic, hard plastic interior now, with a price increase, some serious choice questions pop.

OK so I test drove the G45 X3, it is not Nissan crap, it is not cheap plastics, that one was loaded, higher end plastics but...then I went for another hour driving a Cayenne. and... Base Cayenne bludgeoned the new X3. Any Cayenne. interior execution feel comfort, bludgeon it. V6 may not be as smooth as the B58, (and the ZF V6 are not optimized) but, in comfort, all things equal, where that difference does no matter in traffic, Cayenne to BMW felt to me like BMW to entry Kia.

G45, in comfort, cold roads, was unforgivingly sporty, as in a tuned up sporty truck. The Cayenne felt like a bigger M Performance/M wrapped around you. Because of a higher position inside the G45, it feels worse than a 340i M3 M4 M5 etc. No comparison, no relationship. The higher you are the more any oscillations feel esp in the cold. So not enough dampened.

Lexus smokes it for comfort (but that all Lexus has). Cayenne trounced it as it soaked vibrations, from comfort to sporty, remained firm and yet comfortable wrapped around you. Frankly it reminded me of single seater aircraft , jet or prop. A bit like An X3 M40i. G45 felt like a firm harsh tuned up truck with a flat hood. Cayenne felt like an elevated ride version of my M, or Caymans I drove. Close enough. But so bad was the G45 interior (narrow etc) that it is no contest.

users who returned their new X3 M50i reported that the AC could not cool the cabin, too little airflow. I believe it. could not test it at -20C, but the Ac points inwards so it took a while to defrost the side windows! Thank goodness it was not raining!

At 100K CAD the G45 M50i is a serious regression by BMW. Price increase, comfort decrease, interior decrease (was this thing designed with small people in mind??), driver seat and leg room decrease...
So they designed the car for Asian drivers (smaller physiologies), I pinged various well connected Bavarian enthusiasts, and indeed BMW decided to make the new X3 and G65 X5 (not out yet) interiors, Asian friendly and feel tighter around them. So protecting the Chinese market, is why BMW went small inside and all gadget, as the Chinese makers did in China.

so iDrive grew on me. But it had some nuisances, most bypassed after learning the commands. But for all the software glitches the Cayenne trounced BMW in ergonomic functionality. The sort of stuff we use developing fighter jet cockpits. Not perfect but leagues above BMW. In the BMW found myself drawn to the big 4K iDrive, in the Cayenne, EYES STAYED ON THE ROAD SMILING..The Cayenne V6 and S I just drove made the new, higher and close priced BMWs look a bad cheap over-reach. BMW had a chance to join Porsche in a similar league, they blew it. They smoked, in cold weather , bumpy frozen roads, any BMWs I drove lately. But especially embarrassed the Adaptive M X3 M50i. The Cayenne PASM, magnetic was told was stable sporty and compliant. To drive a Lexus RX 350 and 500 same day was to confirm that those are plush and only plush. Cayenne felt as firm as turning a fighter jet on the runway- big but telepathic and on the dime.

Yes, US owners claiming a lack of physical orientation feeling because of the flat hood, CORRECT. Slide a bit and you many not exactly feel or see the car's nose pointing. FLAT. But I would not refuse this car on that alone.

where I live, Japanese auto makers went up 27% in 2023, 20% in 2024 Highlander Lexus with financing are all nearly 100,000 $. Sienna with warranty and financing, 95,000$. Acura MDX with heater and warranty 98,000$ with taxes, +19000 financing. X30 <100k X5>100,000 so all Porsche territory, and I am unsure that these cars now, with cheaper options (that Lexus RX 35- V4 was nasty stuttering!) convey any value or bang per buck.

I think BMW, X3 X5 coming up, is done.