[stevenc]

Employees who do not wish to return to work will no longer count against employers in PPP loan forgiveness

https://www.journalofaccountancy.com...CWlaj6DYytvOrI

[383vett]

Originally Posted by stevenc

Employees who do not wish to return to work will no longer count against employers in PPP loan forgiveness

https://www.journalofaccountancy.com...CWlaj6DYytvOrI

Wonder what happens to the money when the employer can "exclude an employee from loan forgiveness calculations" if the employee refuses to return back to work. Does the 75/25 percentage get recalculated and the money allowed to be used toward other business expenses? It sure will keep accountants busy figuring this out.

[hubbahubba]

Just spent some time at our bank getting a new account set up specifically for PPP forgiveness accepted costs to run through. We had a bunch of questions about things our business specifically needs to know about what we can and can't do with payroll. They really had no answers other than bonus payments can not be counted towards amount forgiven. Our personal business banker suggested we contact our CPA for guidance. When I asked if our CPA was going to be the one signing off on our forgiven amount, she got my drift. IMO, it really does not matter what anybody but the bank that we got the loan from thinks about what is a forgiveable cost. If you have questions, drill your bank, and please post here what you find out. I will when they have my questions answered.

[DocL]

Originally Posted by hubbahubba

Awesome, doc. I really shouldn't have gone there.....

Nah, I didn't take it as you were being a dick. My friend and I are opposites politically, but he's very smart and doesn't defend himself by talking trash. We actually don't even talk politics with each other. It's just family, cars, and photography. I'd vote for him in a minute if I lived back in NY.

[stevenc]

Originally Posted by 383vett

Wonder what happens to the money when the employer can "exclude an employee from loan forgiveness calculations" if the employee refuses to return back to work. Does the 75/25 percentage get recalculated and the money allowed to be used toward other business expenses? It sure will keep accountants busy figuring this out.

No i dont think so.

The forgiveness is a multi tier calculation. One of the calculations is your head count. I think if the employee refuses to come back to work, then it wont count against you headcount wise. I believe the money must still be used for 75% payroll, 25% rent/utilities.

[Kolyan2k]

Be careful out there feds are watching you

https://www.boston25news.com/news/tw...93eulnw_EV-vVA

[hubbahubba]

So here's one for you... Last night about 7:45 we get a call from the branch manager of the bank we got the loan from. She said that the SBA pulled the loan from them because Wells Fargo got the Etran number first, annd they were debiting the $ out of our account. We have seen nothing from Wells as far as loan docs yet. How is it possible that even though Wells got the number first, our other bank was able to get the docs together and fund us? Have to call Wells and get it from them... This is insane.

[cmyx6go]

Originally Posted by hubbahubba

So here's one for you... Last night about 7:45 we get a call from the branch manager of the bank we got the loan from. She said that the SBA pulled the loan from them because Wells Fargo got the Etran number first, annd they were debiting the $ out of our account. We have seen nothing from Wells as far as loan docs yet. How is it possible that even though Wells got the number first, our other bank was able to get the docs together and fund us? Have to call Wells and get it from them... This is insane.

So Wells did nothing for you, your small bank got the application processed and through and now the SBA will pull the funds so Wells can get credit for it and fees I'm assuming. WTF? Keep us posted.

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by hubbahubba

So here's one for you... Last night about 7:45 we get a call from the branch manager of the bank we got the loan from. She said that the SBA pulled the loan from them because Wells Fargo got the Etran number first, annd they were debiting the $ out of our account. We have seen nothing from Wells as far as loan docs yet. How is it possible that even though Wells got the number first, our other bank was able to get the docs together and fund us? Have to call Wells and get it from them... This is insane.

That sounds so ridiculous for so many reasons. Sorry to hear. Hope it gets sorted soon.

[hubbahubba]

cmy- yep, that pretty much sums it up... such a scam. Thank you for your concern.

Rick- Thank you, much appreciated.

Will keep you posted.

[KenB925]

I got a call from my bank yesterday afternoon, verifying some information.

I don't know what is going on over there, so far everything has been measured in weeks.

Maybe its because Bank of The West is a medium sized bank, I don't know, I'll keep this thread posted.

[383vett]

Originally Posted by hubbahubba

So here's one for you... Last night about 7:45 we get a call from the branch manager of the bank we got the loan from. She said that the SBA pulled the loan from them because Wells Fargo got the Etran number first, annd they were debiting the $ out of our account. We have seen nothing from Wells as far as loan docs yet. How is it possible that even though Wells got the number first, our other bank was able to get the docs together and fund us? Have to call Wells and get it from them... This is insane.

The old money switch. Hopefully you'll get your funds and you can laugh about it later. It's crazy how these considerable sums of monies get randomly dispersed.

[Kolyan2k]

There is so much Cancel Rent crap on TV, I was wondering what are the programs for landlords? Do they have any? I saw some rental loss lines in EIDL thats now dead, anything else out there?

[Yessir]

Originally Posted by hubbahubba

So here's one for you... Last night about 7:45 we get a call from the branch manager of the bank we got the loan from. She said that the SBA pulled the loan from them because Wells Fargo got the Etran number first, annd they were debiting the $ out of our account. We have seen nothing from Wells as far as loan docs yet. How is it possible that even though Wells got the number first, our other bank was able to get the docs together and fund us? Have to call Wells and get it from them... This is insane.

Sorry to see this happen, just ridiculous.

[KenB925]

PPP funded this evening, about 9 hours after my docusign (for those interested)

[R N M]

Originally Posted by hubbahubba

So here's one for you... Last night about 7:45 we get a call from the branch manager of the bank we got the loan from. She said that the SBA pulled the loan from them because Wells Fargo got the Etran number first, annd they were debiting the $ out of our account. We have seen nothing from Wells as far as loan docs yet. How is it possible that even though Wells got the number first, our other bank was able to get the docs together and fund us? Have to call Wells and get it from them... This is insane.

Looks like the bank you were dealing with fronted the $$$$$ without first securing SBA #. Small banks as usual are taking greater risk chances to gain marketshare. SBA E-tran system issues loan #s - one for each tax ID. Instead of being upset at Wells, you should be angry at the other lender for giving you funds they hadn’t properly secured. I’m seeing this too much happening right now.
Imagine how much more volume Wells has in PPP loans relative to a local bank and yet most workers are working remotely.

I think there will be ton of scams and lawsuits once this is all said and done as im sure lots of $$$ was improperly distributed.

[R N M]

Originally Posted by KenB925

I got a call from my bank yesterday afternoon, verifying some information.

I don't know what is going on over there, so far everything has been measured in weeks.

Maybe its because Bank of The West is a medium sized bank, I don't know, I'll keep this thread posted.

What’s going on is banks are processing annual volumes of loan applications in a 2-3 week period, yet most of their workers are also working remotely. There has never been initiative of this kind before. Overnight you have to create team of workers, systems and program to track loans, issue approvals etc. Its not that simple.

On top of that - you got SBA and Treasury updating application, business qualifications etc. The banks are issuing their own funds to clients and then SBA promises to pay the banks back. Well if something is wrong with the application or supporting documentation, the bank assumes that risk and SBA can refuse to repay. It happens on 7a and 504 loans.

[R N M]

Originally Posted by hubbahubba

Just spent some time at our bank getting a new account set up specifically for PPP forgiveness accepted costs to run through. We had a bunch of questions about things our business specifically needs to know about what we can and can't do with payroll. They really had no answers other than bonus payments can not be counted towards amount forgiven. Our personal business banker suggested we contact our CPA for guidance. When I asked if our CPA was going to be the one signing off on our forgiven amount, she got my drift. IMO, it really does not matter what anybody but the bank that we got the loan from thinks about what is a forgiveable cost. If you have questions, drill your bank, and please post here what you find out. I will when they have my questions answered.

PPP is NOT a bank loan. It is a Government loan issued by SBA. Banks did not create the program, qualifications, underwriting, approval guidelines etc. Hence you need to consult with your legal counsel and accountant for guidance. Banks don’t want to be liable for advising you one way or the other for a program that they did not put together.

[hubbahubba]

Originally Posted by R N M

Looks like the bank you were dealing with fronted the $$$$$ without first securing SBA #. Small banks as usual are taking greater risk chances to gain marketshare. SBA E-tran system issues loan #s - one for each tax ID. Instead of being upset at Wells, you should be angry at the other lender for giving you funds they hadn’t properly secured. I’m seeing this too much happening right now.
Imagine how much more volume Wells has in PPP loans relative to a local bank and yet most workers are working remotely.

I think there will be ton of scams and lawsuits once this is all said and done as im sure lots of $$$ was improperly distributed.

Thank you for the info. To clarify, are you saying that my local bank most likely never had an E-tran number and were basically rolling the dice in hopes of securing one? If they did do that, and knowing that I told them up front that we had applied at Wells days before, what would be their motivation? Are they just that dumb? They put $ in my account for 2 days. I am not necessarily doubting what you say, you sound knowledgeable, but help me understand a little more please?

[hubbahubba]

Originally Posted by R N M

PPP is NOT a bank loan. It is a Government loan issued by SBA. Banks did not create the program, qualifications, underwriting, approval guidelines etc. Hence you need to consult with your legal counsel and accountant for guidance. Banks don’t want to be liable for advising you one way or the other for a program that they did not put together.

I get what you are saying, but this is copy/paste from the bill itself:

(g) DECISION.—Not later than 60 days after the date on which
a lender receives an application for loan forgiveness under this
section from an eligible recipient, the lender shall issue a decision
on the an application.

If not up the the lender, as written here, who is responsible for making the decision on forgiveness?

Honestly, after all I have run through in my head today, I am not entirely unhappy that we had the money taken back. I am not so sure that I trust either the government, or either bank, to forgive my debt. Should Wells come through with it, I may pass anyway. We are getting back to open on Monday on a limited basis, and I may just ride it out. Still a lot to consider...

[R N M]

Originally Posted by hubbahubba

Thank you for the info. To clarify, are you saying that my local bank most likely never had an E-tran number and were basically rolling the dice in hopes of securing one? If they did do that, and knowing that I told them up front that we had applied at Wells days before, what would be their motivation? Are they just that dumb? They put $ in my account for 2 days. I am not necessarily doubting what you say, you sound knowledgeable, but help me understand a little more please?

My understanding is SBA issues only one E-tran # per Tax ID.
Many businesses have applied with multiple lenders hence why It makes sense for SBA to take such action. Could there have been a mix up in your case? Sure. I just find that to be unlikely. Its more likely this lender maybe leveraging the PPP program to get new clients and make some $$$. (SBA pays lender fees for each loan they process based on amount)

[R N M]

Originally Posted by hubbahubba

I get what you are saying, but this is copy/paste from the bill itself:

(g) DECISION.—Not later than 60 days after the date on which
a lender receives an application for loan forgiveness under this
section from an eligible recipient, the lender shall issue a decision
on the an application.

If not up the the lender, as written here, who is responsible for making the decision on forgiveness?

Honestly, after all I have run through in my head today, I am not entirely unhappy that we had the money taken back. I am not so sure that I trust either the government, or either bank, to forgive my debt. Should Wells come through with it, I may pass anyway. We are getting back to open on Monday on a limited basis, and I may just ride it out. Still a lot to consider...

The lender is responsible to verify and review the information as stipulated by SBA. The interpretation of the information and qualifications does not fall on the lender as they are not the ones that came up with it. They are a 3rd party carrying out the process since SBA doesn’t have the capability/ man power to process such volume in small time window.

For example- if your banker advises you how to calculate loan amount and it turns out to be incorrect, the bank can be liable. Therefore that responsibility falls on you and whoever you want to seek for advice of how the guidelines of the program should be interpreted. Most good CPA firms are all over it and large ones are doing weekly conference calls for clients and Q&A.

The forgiveness process is still TBD. Right now they are still trying to approve/fund the loans.