[Thescout13]

Originally Posted by BMWCCA1

So, let me get this straight: you're willing to pay the asking price to avoid the hassle of . . . what? Protracted negotiating?

Why not try going into a dealership and say, "I want to by that car at the price on that sticker. How long will this take?"

The answer might surprise you! I'm happy to try that experiment with you anytime.

Man that went right over your head.

If all new cars sales were one price with no variability by store, then sign me the hell up, a la Tesla.

But your asinine joke makes no sense in a market that has variability in pricing on a depreciating asset. Why would I buy from you at sticker and be underwater immediately, when I can buy from the other guy for most of my initial year's worth of depreciation? I wouldn't.

So the idiotic system is built in a way that requires stupid back and forth with sales people, who, for as long as I can remember, have played without shame every delay and other manipulative tactic they learned from their stupid "how to sell" books during negotiations that make you leave a dealership with a level of underlying anger and resentment that you try to mask with your "enjoyment" of your new car. You think we don't see you just shooting the shit in your manager's office trying to "wait us out" so we get deal fatigue and cave? I have been part of multi-million dollar deal negotiations where complex tiered pricing is figured out much quicker than it takes a car salesman to get back from his manager's office.

Take price variability out, you and your profession goes the way of the dinosaur, and honestly that's probably better overall for society.

Listen I get your butthurt that you aren't living the high life anymore like you were in the 80s, but forgive me for not having little more than an ounce of compassion for any sales person who works in an industry that has bred dealership networks that have a lobby that's as corrupt as the teamsters under Hoffa.

Things change. As we used to say in the military - adapt or die.

Now let's get back to ED. This can move to the politics thread instead of taking up space in this thread.

[R N M]

Since 2009 - i have bought/leased 6 new BMWs. Currently i have 2.

I did PCD for my 2018 M3 and it was a Great experience but always dreamed of doing European Delivery. Its one of the aspects that make it so cool of being a BMW owner - its not just the cars but also heritage, experiences which separate it from other brands. I guess the driving events will be next to get cut.

Very sad day for the brand with too many of them in recent years.

Porsche seems to be where im headed - hearing that video of the 992 GT3 testing at the Ring shows they are focused on the right things not foolish giant grills.

[R N M]

Originally Posted by BMWCCA1

So, let me get this straight: you're willing to pay the asking price to avoid the hassle of . . . what? Protracted negotiating?

Why not try going into a dealership and say, "I want to by that car at the price on that sticker. How long will this take?"

The answer might surprise you! I'm happy to try that experiment with you anytime.

The issue is we consumers don’t want to go to Dealership at all and speak to any salesman. If we do go in, your finance buddy will sell me that beautiful warranty package or how about that excellent wheel/tire insurance. The doc fee of $699! Dealers have nobody to blame but themselves.
They don’t know anything about the product and add absolutely no value. All i want is to build the car online - send it to BMW and get back order #.

It would add value if BMW had stores like Tesla that offer hassle free test drives and actually know intricate details of the tech in the cars. The BMW Genius ppl are better than average sales person but also limited.

[hans007]

Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda

///M cars will still be made in Germany. I do agree that the Mexican plant was the final nail in this coffin.

I am already looking at Mercedes ED program for the wife's next ride.

I feel for the people that haven't experienced the Welt. We have been there 4 times so it was time for a change anyway.

Later Fellas. Not much left in BMW land for me at this point.

you sure about the m cars being made in Germany?

the X series M cars are made here.

so it would kind of make sense that the m2/m3 would come here... like Mercedes makes the c63 sedan here...

[Thescout13]

Originally Posted by R N M

The issue is we consumers don't want to go to Dealership at all and speak to any salesman. If we do go in, your finance buddy will sell me that beautiful warranty package or how about that excellent wheel/tire insurance. The doc fee of $699! Dealers have nobody to blame but themselves.
They don't know anything about the product and add absolutely no value. All i want is to build the car online - send it to BMW and get back order #.

It would add value if BMW had stores like Tesla that offer hassle free test drives and actually know intricate details of the tech in the cars. The BMW Genius ppl are better than average sales person but also limited.

Yes, this. I haven't been to a non-Porsche dealership in at least 15 years that had a salesman that actually knew more than me about any car they had on their lot, and the vast majority knew less than my wife who could care less about different offerings or specs.

[jvit27]

I'm not the type who throws their hands in the air dramatically and storms out, so while I will say this is sad - it is not surprising. BMW (AND YES YOU BMW NORTH AMERICA) has been slowly twisting the knife on enthusiasts for years; our disappointment in the brand is cumulative. The cars have become homogenous. The cost-cutting has become an actual tangible feeling. And the prioritization of volume over passion is just spilling into every corner of the experience now. They won't build xxxx units of a cool niche car we want like an M3 Touring, but they'll gamble on selling 10,000 tragedies of X2's or 5 series GT's. They managed to sell out of 1M's and many were sold with ADM because demand outweighed supply. But instead of being loyal to their base and valuing a measly 1000 customers here and there, they instead changed all of the nomenclature, they force you to buy several packages you don't want to get the options you do, and they'll literally delete things like the sport suspension from a sport package (IE: my F31 M sport and former X70). Should we mention the absurd price hikes on the parts matrix or the exponential markup from the dealerships parts departments? Because it's not as fun to try and keep a classic BMW on the road these days...

I'm sure PCD is a great experience, but the elephant in the room is that it basically ends at the property line. ED is arguably THE most effective way to date at creating a deep connection with your customer. It isn't about the Welt or the free meal either, it's about experiencing an amazing part of the world most of the takers have never been able to and curating the trip of a lifetime. Most of those people dream of driving their new car in the passes of Switzerland or along the coast of Italy - not hard parking at a Cracker Barrel off i95... so while I'm sure some carpetwalkers in corporate completed an analysis on this program and deemed the margin unacceptable or unsustainable, wait until the next shift in company culture years from now when some overpaid consultants do an autopsy to try and figure out why customer loyalty/retention dropped. They'll sure find plenty of reasons! (lol and then they'll try solving it by throwing millions of dollars towards a new marketing slogan )

Originally Posted by BMWCCA1

These days most BMW buyers are getting what they deserve, and that's usually the lowest price with the lowest level of service. And then they complain about the dealers. Days like yesterday make me glad I haven't yet chosen to retire. But that doesn't happen enough to keep me in the business much longer.

You brought up some very valid points, but I can't tell if your posts are dripping with ego or just sarcasm seasoned with resent. The description of your sales experience is anecdotal because you don't seem to empathize what it's like to be the customer who ISN'T just about saving a few dollars. Many dealerships/salespeople have a glaring lack of product knowledge and are more focused on closing the deal than making you happy. Then there are the cocky ones who try to act like they know more than you, belittle the female customers, or just don't treat you with any respect because you're just a sale to them. It's not a pleasant experience BEFORE they then add you to their databases and toe the line of harassment disguised as 'marketing' and 'follow ups'. And don't even get me started on the incessant fucking surveys.

But I digress... if you have lost so many customers to other dealerships, do you guys ever stop and ask yourselves just how far off are you on pricing?

[solstice]

Well that sucks.

[D22M2]

Mexico delivery experience still available

[nlpamg]

This fucking sucks. I’m so sad about this. I loved doing this and wanted to do it again and again for more years to come.

[Fuller]

Originally Posted by SabineBimmer

GT350 or C8 Corvette instead of M2

That's like telling someone who's craving an orange to have a banana or pear instead. All fruit from trees, but all very different from each other.

[V-Eight]

Just a question.

I'm italian, so I really don't know how things works for you, but if an american picks up his/her car in Europe, how can he/she send it to the US then? It's something that is care of BMW itself or you have to manage the transfer your own?

[CRtoE92]

I didnt know it was gonna be last time there

I knew bmw wasnt making much money in ED business but it was exceptional experience for me to rethink about BMW brand..( positive way)

I did two EDs and couldnt get enough of it so i was planning another one which was a lot longer in trip distance in my future G82. Now that is gone. This is not going to make me reconsider my interest in G82 however i will definitely look into MB and porsche for their ED programs with one of their vehicles.. this is really sad It was just exceptional experience

PS: does that mean we can still do Performance delivery in Spartanburg??

[alpinestar]

Sorry guys, too many drama queens here.

Is it sad? Yes, it is.
I feel people who really wanted to do this and i liked ED threads as well, no question.

But i don’t get comments like ,then i‘m heading to Porsche‘.
What’s your car choice, bc of the delivery?

When numbers went down to >500 per year then it’s more than understandable they won’t offer it anymore, especially in critical times like this.

[JCZ5]

Originally Posted by alpinestar

Sorry guys, too many drama queens here.

Is it sad? Yes, it is.
I feel people who really wanted to do this and i liked ED threads as well, no question.

But i don’t get comments like ,then i‘m heading to Porsche‘.
What’s your car choice, bc of the delivery?

When numbers went down to >500 per year then it’s more than understandable they won’t offer it anymore, especially in critical times like this.

This happens every time BMW makes a change to their business practice or new model introduction (read: new M3/M4).

Many people vehemently say they will never return to BMW or buy a Porsche. But what's the actual stated to execution ratio? Pretty minimal. Here are a few items to consider.

1. Which other brand offers the option for MT at the price point that BMW offers for each of their M cars?

2. Which brand offers the same performance and utility at its price point?

3. BMW is not going to lose any sleep losing the few of you that move away from the brand. In my previous post, I gave actual numbers at the amount of additional customers BMW attracted with their new X5 lineup in 2019.

4. If you have the option to go to Porsche, that should always be the option. As a friend once said, Porsche offers true sports cars while BMW offers sporty cars. By buying a BMW, you have already decided to compromise (which is not a bad thing) and have both driving pleasure and utility.

There will still be BMW enthusiasts in the brand and BMW will get positive publicity because of it. The brand does not need to please everyone and the direction is working out quite well.

[M2COMP]

So sad to see this go, I'm glad I experienced this amazing option few years ago, always wanted to do another one.. wish they may re consider once pandemic is over.

[emulajavi]

Great BMW! Continue digging your grave!

ED was great for the brand, because of the ones who went there and, most importantly, of the ones who didn’t but learned the stories from the ones who did.

[ND40oz]

Originally Posted by Dog Face Pony Soldier

European Delivery Program was likely an expense for the marketing division. I guess they're restructuring their expenses to ones that don't require an in-person experience. I bet the test drive tour is next.

The in-person experience isn't really an extra expense for the program, it's all the logistics that have to go along with it. BMW is still doing Welt delivery for their German customers and it's done by the same people that do the actual deliveries for the ED program.

With the old bread and butter 3er not being able to do it anymore and their current best selling vehicles being built in the US, the volume is no longer there for it to make sense.

[hinckley]

Originally Posted by V-Eight

Just a question. I'm italian, so I really don't know how things works for you, but if an american picks up his/her car in Europe, how can he/she send it to the US then? It's something that is care of BMW itself or you have to manage the transfer your own?

European Delivery is (was) as very special program for North Americans. We order a car normally at our local dealership. We fly to Europe and then take "initial delivery" of our cars at the Welt. BMW pays for plates and insurance. We drive around Europe in our American-spec cars and then drop them off at one of several specified locations around Europe. BMW then takes control again by shipping our cars to America where we take "re-delivery" back at our local dealership. As you can see from all the responses here, it was a special experience for Americans.

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by hans007

you sure about the m cars being made in Germany?

the X series M cars are made here.

so it would kind of make sense that the m2/m3 would come here... like Mercedes makes the c63 sedan here...

I should have said REAL ///M cars



But seriously this is terrible news.

[hinckley]

Originally Posted by alpinestar

Sorry guys, too many drama queens here.

Is it sad? Yes, it is. I feel people who really wanted to do this and i liked ED threads as well, no question. But i don’t get comments like ,then i‘m heading to Porsche‘. What’s your car choice, bc of the delivery? When numbers went down to >500 per year then it’s more than understandable they won’t offer it anymore, especially in critical times like this.

As someone who did six EDs and had no intention of stopping, I have to agree with everything you've said here. It's like everyone screaming at the top of their lungs for cool European estate cars/wagons. What happens when a few manufacturers try to import them? They don't sell. At all. Look at Volvo.

I said this earlier and I'll say it again. ED is an incredible experience that BMW got the economics wrong on. Instead of ED cars being discounted (how does that makes sense?), ED should be an extra-cost option like the $2500 M Driver's Package. That way, BMW can make the economics work on the few people who actually do ED instead of just marketing a program that people only dream about.

[///M4ster Yoda]

For the record as has been stated a few times already. BMW made the pricing so shitty in 2016 by taking away all incentives and discounts from ED essentially killing the program on purpose.

This was an enthusiast brand with great heritage and prestige. Now it's a brand with an identity crisis that makes bland vehicles without soul.

We all see it. There was nothing like going to Munich and picking up a brand new car for an amazing adventure. Nothing. PCD doesn't cut it sorry. Blasting onto SC highways. Please!

I told the wife yesterday I might forgive the horrible ///M3/4 grille so we can take my son on ED in 2 years. Forgiving the grille is a lot for me. Now there is no way in hell I'll buy that car. BMW really did lose a long time customer in our family with this and a few other ridiculous decisions.

I will move onto other brands with fond memories of what BMW used to be. I'm sure once we get a Porsche and Merc SUV on ED for the wife there will be no looking back.

Peace out

[hinckley]

Originally Posted by ND40oz

The in-person experience isn't really an extra expense for the program, it's all the logistics that have to go along with it. BMW is still doing Welt delivery for their German customers and it's done by the same people that do the actual deliveries for the ED program. With the old bread and butter 3er not being able to do it anymore and their current best selling vehicles being built in the US, the volume is no longer there for it to make sense.

^^This. I think that many Americans don't realize that many Europeans take delivery of their cars at the Welt and simply drive them home. And as you say, that program is handled by the same people and the same logistics as the American ED program. But BMW does have the extra cost of plates, insurance and inland third-party transport for our ED program. And those are real, hard costs.

I also agree that the loss of the bread-and-butter 3er was probably the death knell for ED. Although I'll bet that ED was skewed to higher-income owners of more expensive models, losing the 3 (and all the X models) was probably more than a declining program could overcome.