[Soporcogitavi]

Originally Posted by DenverSteve

Great post. Actually though, I've not seen "M-Sport" on anything. It's either a car marked M - or it's not. An M40i or M50i isn't marked "sport" anywhere I've seen. It's an M40i, M50i.... For some reason nay-sayers seem to think it has something to do with aero add-ons - and it doesn't. It has to do with all the M performance upgrades which is all that makes an M, an M. Some (M50i) have a few less M features and some (M5, M7...) have more. It's only a "thing" because some make it a thing. When they stop with the negativity, the thread will die. Until the next one. ..............

Of course it's not marked sport, I was referring to the M versions between base models and Full M. M Performance may be the better and more appropriate term as you pointed out, but you get what I mean. And absolutely agreed, the M is much more than just Aero add ons.

[LakeSurfer]

I'm not a bmw fan I just wanted a V8, manual, hard top convertible and the only one that met my criteria happens to be an e93 M3. By many standards it's not a "true" "m" car. Ok, whatever. Are my feelings hurt, lol, no. Do you feel better? I hope so.

That being said. I was told that M cars came about due to the races and race rules BMW was involved in. In order for them to race the car they had to have it in production and produce a certain amount of cars for the public. So BMW said fine, we don't want to deal with it but the big wig did and they said ok you can have your toy but keep it out of our hair, here's the car you get to use, do what you want and let us know if you wanna have lunch or something. Fast forward and the rules changed or loosened up and the M cars were a little more popular than BMW expected so they became more involved and started to have more lunches and dinners and maybe even a few one night stands with the M brand. Now they're in a full fledged dysfunctional marriage fighting over who does more laundry than the other one. M took off and merged into the main brand of BMW. And now we get watered down cats that are sort of race cars but designated for soccer moms and snotty middle aged men.

If this is true and I don't know if it is but I'm sure someone will correct me and belittle me for not caring or knowing what I'm talking about then none of us have TRUE M cars. unless you have one of the OG race cars, do you? Then you just have a car with a few cool features and a little logo on the trunk with 3 very cool contrasting colors.

M sport, CSL, fender flairs, humps on the hood, whatever, all you have is a car with a logo, no heritage or history just marketing lead by bean counters who are all just wanting to make a profit.

[wtwo3]

I'm curious to see impact on sales from the badge usage. Like has slapping m badging on non-m cars increased sales for the non m cars and/or has it cannibalized sales of m cars. Granted it's hard to capture that since there's multiple factors that have impacts on sales.

Between BMW, Audi and Mercedes, I feel like Audi has the best delineation (S vs. RS). BMW comes in 2nd with m340i vs. m3 etc. Mercedes on the other hand has sort of shot themselves in the foot. C43 amg has the same naming convention as the full blown C63 amg.

[DenverSteve]

Unfortunately, your logic is flawed. BMW only puts in badges on I am variants.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by DenverSteve

Unfortunately, your logic is flawed. BMW only puts in badges on I am variants.

The logic is sound.... but it seems like you're focusing on semantics.

To make you happy, how about I rephrase:

I'm curious to see the impact and relationship of sales between m340i vs. m3 (and other segments like m550i vs. m5, x3m40i vs. x3m, etc) in comparison to days when the m badge was reserved for the m3/m5/m6 etc only, and the 340i/550i/650i were without the "m" before the model name.

[TAZ007]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

The logic is sound.... but it seems like you're focusing on semantics.

To make you happy, how about I rephrase:

I'm curious to see the impact and relationship of sales between m340i vs. m3 (and other segments like m550i vs. m5, x3m40i vs. x3m, etc) in comparison to days when the m badge was reserved for the m3/m5/m6 etc only, and the 340i/550i/650i were without the "m" before the model name.

In other words, a comparison between M performance cars vs M cars.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by TAZ007

In other words, a comparison between M performance cars vs M cars.

Yes... but shhhh.... that seems to upset people.

The point here is, there's obviously a difference between an m340i and an m3. The m340i was formerly the 340i. The M3 was formerly.... the M3. My question is, what sort of impact to sales has adding the "m" in front of 340i done to both the m340i and the m3, compared to previous iterations where it was just 340i and m3.

It's more a rhetorical question... Things I wonder about. I don't expect an actual answer.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

My question is, what sort of impact to sales has adding the "m" in front of 340i done to both the m340i and the m3, compared to previous iterations where it was just 340i and m3.

It's more a rhetorical question... Things I wonder about. I don't expect an actual answer.

I simply see it as "choice". Not everyone wants the M3, the middle ground is a definite market place. Evident by quite a few users who chose to have the performance packages added to the F30 340i.

Better to have an M-Lite from the factory? I suggest it is, for many users. BMW also appear to think so.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

I simply see it as "choice". Not everyone wants the M3, the middle ground is a definite market place. Evident by quite a few users who chose to have the performance packages added to the F30 340i.

Better to have an M-Lite from the factory? I suggest it is, for many users. BMW also appear to think so.

Yeah so that begs the question.... is the m30i stealing sales away from the G80 M3 compared to the 340i vs. the F80 M3?

Doesn't help that the design of the G80 is wildly different from the G20.. which is why this'll probably remain a rhetorical question

[TAZ007]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

Yes... but shhhh.... that seems to upset people.

The point here is, there's obviously a difference between an m340i and an m3. The m340i was formerly the 340i. The M3 was formerly.... the M3. My question is, what sort of impact to sales has adding the "m" in front of 340i done to both the m340i and the m3, compared to previous iterations where it was just 340i and m3.

It's more a rhetorical question... Things I wonder about. I don't expect an actual answer.

Ok, but it is the trickle down effect.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

Yeah so that begs the question.... is the m30i stealing sales away from the G80 M3 compared to the 340i vs. the F80 M3?

Doesn't help that the design of the G80 is wildly different from the G20.. which is why this'll probably remain a rhetorical question

I'm sure BMW know what they are doing, they'll have their profit margins worked out, which ever model they sell.

Could mean the M-cars are more exclusive... a good thing?

[bobowar135]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

I'm sure BMW know what they are doing, they'll have their profit margins worked out, which ever model they sell.

Could mean the M-cars are more exclusive... a good thing?

It could also mean that the M cars are less desireable because people can buy an M-badged car for less than a true M car.
What BMW are doing may be good for their bottom line but I believe that they are diluting the M brand by slapping M badges on cars willy-nilly.

[Chihuahua]

Wow, 14 pages of this? This thread has serious legs.

[TAZ007]

Originally Posted by Chihuahua

Wow, 14 pages of this? This thread has serious legs.

And they must be stretched from time to time.

[Soporcogitavi]

Originally Posted by bobowar135

It could also mean that the M cars are less desireable because people can buy an M-badged car for less than a true M car.
What BMW are doing may be good for their bottom line but I believe that they are diluting the M brand by slapping M badges on cars willy-nilly.

"Slapping M badges on cars"? Most of these cars with "slapped on M badges" are hitting 0-60 in 4 secs, have sport tuned suspension and are producing close 400hp, not to mention they are handily out performing previous "pure M" models. If that's not worthy of an M badge not sure what is.

[stein_325i]

M cars are not all about horsepower and performance, there's more to a car than 0-60...

Most modern cars are outperforming older performance vehicles. Engine technology and tires have become more advanced every year. Hell a Nissan Altima outperformed a G20 330i on Car and Driver's skidpad and a new Accord is faster than an E30 M3, doesn't make either car a proper sports sedan.

[Soporcogitavi]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

M cars are not all about horsepower and performance, there's more to a car than 0-60...

Have you driven the M340i? That car isn't just about HP, it offers so much more. That's just one example amongst many (m440i, m550i, etc).

[Chihuahua]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

...a new Accord is faster than an E30 M3, doesn't make either car a proper sports sedan.

Very true. Does this now mean that a Honda Accord also counts as an M car?

Discuss.

[Soporcogitavi]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

M cars are not all about horsepower and performance, there's more to a car than 0-60...

Most modern cars are outperforming older performance vehicles. Engine technology and tires have become more advanced every year. Hell a Nissan Altima outperformed a G20 330i on Car and Driver's skidpad and a new Accord is faster than an E30 M3, doesn't make either car a proper sports sedan.

Do you consider your CLS 53 a proper sports sedan, even though it's not a 63? I'm playing Devils advocate of course. Proper sports sedan to you is dependent on your definition. Anyone who claims the M badged (m340, m440, m550) cars are not proper sports sedans are disconnected.

[D22M2]

Only d**kholes care about sh*t like this

[Soporcogitavi]

Originally Posted by D22M2

Only d**kholes care about sh*t like this

I would have to agree with you. I'm not sure what's with the hate towards "non real M cars"

Silliness.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by Soporcogitavi

Have you driven the M340i? That car isn't just about HP, it offers so much more. That's just one example amongst many (m440i, m550i, etc).

Yes, I even made a whole review on here when the car first came out. I have also extensively driven the M550i (which was incredibly disappointing). It had the same boring chassis as my 540i just with a better engine. Like I said for the M340i in other threads, its a great car, but I don't consider it an M vehicle.

Originally Posted by Soporcogitavi

Do you consider your CLS 53 a proper sports sedan, even though it's not a 63?

I consider it a luxury vehicle with some sporty handling and characteristics, which is why I got it. I don't consider it an AMG though and have even de-badged the AMG badging on the rear of the car.