[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

This company is more interested in marketing a perceived image to badge enthusiasts instead of producing driver's cars for car enthusiasts.

If BMW concentrated on the latter, they'd either be a niche company, or out of business altogether.

Put another way, once they went for volume, they 'tuned' for the wider market. If that includes a few extra M badges, so be it.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

If BMW concentrated on the latter, they'd either be a niche company, or out of business altogether.

Put another way, once they went for volume, they 'tuned' for the wider market. If that includes a few extra M badges, so be it.

They didn't have to go as extreme as they did.

I could care less if BMW is the #1 selling luxury automaker or the 4th. How much money the CEO is lining in his pocket has no benefit to me.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by ZL9M2

The M badge used to be reserved for the truly special cars produced by BMW. Now its just thrown about as a marketing tool. No doubt it has helped them sell cars; "Look at my M car", but it has diluted the M brand.

How has it diluted a brand which started out that way? The E28 M5 (1984) came along as a hard core version of the softer E12 & E28 M535i (1979 & 1984).

I wonder how we really perceive the trail blazing E12 M535i, in comparison to something of a similar size as the G20 M340i (current)? Neither true M-cars, but aimed at a similar market in their own time.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

They didn't have to go as extreme as they did.

Only extreme, if you want to see it that way. If you see it all as customer choice, then you are onto a winner!

[BobBMWX3]

Just to give my two cents on my purchasing decision. I personally do not care about badging. I picked the car that I wanted based on what I could afford. That was the X3 M40i.

[DenverSteve]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

Yes... but shhhh.... that seems to upset people.

The point here is, there's obviously a difference between an m340i and an m3. The m340i was formerly the 340i.

Actually, like many posts in this thread - this is also untrue. The non-M version of the cars were more bolt-ons and visual upgrades. When the M (ie, M430i..) they added M engine componente, suspension, handling.... to make it a M car. Here are a few links for those who think they know what a M-package is and those who have no idea. I didn't write them and don't necessarily know if every word is completely accurate but, this information is sound and should be read by anyone complaining, or wrongly stating, that some M cars are legitimate and some are not. I don't expect any nay-sayers to change their biased minds but this information is sound and more accurate than misguided opinion.

You can scroll down to the bottom of this page and see all the "M" cars considered "M cars" by BMW.

https://www.bmw-m.com/en/index.html

This will explain more about the difference between "M Sport" which aren't badged M and other "M" cars.

https://www.bmwmarkham.com/2020/06/0...m-performance/

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by DenverSteve

Actually, like many posts in this thread - this is also untrue. The non-M version of the cars were more bolt-ons and visual upgrades. When the M (ie, M430i..) they added M engine componente, suspension, handling.... to make it a M car. Here are a few links for those who think they know what a M-package is and those who have no idea. I didn't write them and don't necessarily know if every word is completely accurate but, this information is sound and should be read by anyone complaining, or wrongly stating, that some M cars are legitimate and some are not. I don't expect any nay-sayers to change their biased minds but this information is sound and more accurate than misguided opinion.

You can scroll down to the bottom of this page and see all the "M" cars considered "M cars" by BMW.

https://www.bmw-m.com/en/index.html

This will explain more about the difference between "M Sport" which aren't badged M and other "M" cars.

https://www.bmwmarkham.com/2020/06/0...m-performance/

You're kidding right? I'd like to believe you know better than to take BMW \\\marketing at face value. BMW will tell you your m40i is in the same category as M because that's a marketing trick to sell more cars... and it seems to be working as this 15 page thread shows.

But since these are the links you're providing, here's a direct quote from the 2nd link:
"The M Performance cars may be the fastest and most-powerful trims available, but BMW officially considers its M products as separate models, due to the extent of the performance modifications. That’s why official M vehicles don’t have trim designations, e.g. the M3 and the X6 M are just badged ‘M3’ and ‘X6 M’."

Nothing I've said is untrue. There IS a difference between an M3 and an m340i, and the m340i replaces the 340i in the lineup. The f generation had 330i, 340i, M3, and there was NO m340i. The g generation has 330i, m340i, m3, and there is NO 340i. Can you spot the replacement?

[LookBothWays]

I am considering ordering a 540i M sport but never considered it being more than it is which is a 540 with some nicer looking trim pieces and upgraded driving enhancements, nothing more. Someone said they consider such as me a poser which is the last thing in life I ever would be intentionally. Makes me think twice about ordering one is this snobbishness. I kind of sensed it at the dealership when I showed up casually and unassuming as I am which seems ironic in retrospect.

[Acturater]

Holy inanity

[TAZ007]

Originally Posted by LookBothWays

I am considering ordering a 540i M sport but never considered it being more than it is which is a 540 with some nicer looking trim pieces and upgraded driving enhancements, nothing more. Someone said they consider such as me a poser which is the last thing in life I ever would be intentionally. Makes me think twice about ordering one is this snobbishness. I kind of sensed it at the dealership when I showed up casually and unassuming as I am which seems ironic in retrospect.

Worry less about this tomfoolery and more what you want. If the M540 is what you want, get it and enjoy it. We only going around this merry-go wheel once.

[GoneIn4Secs]

That’s why official M vehicles don’t have trim designations, e.g. the M3 and the X6 M are just badged ‘M3’ and ‘X6 M’."

This isnt even true as they have M3, M3 Competition and M3 CS!

[DenverSteve]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

You're kidding right? I'd like to believe you know better than to take BMW \\\marketing at face value. BMW will tell you your m40i is in the same category as M because that's a marketing trick to sell more cars... and it seems to be working as this 15 page thread shows.

Nothing I've said is untrue. There IS a difference between an M3 and an m340i,...

You would have intelligent people here believe you, an apparent retard, over BMW, the manufacturer of all of these cars? Actually, nothing you say, or think, has anything to do with BMW manufacturing or marketing. The "M" designation means many different things but one thing that is consistent is that all the M cars are more than the base models.

Is the m3 different than the M340i? Of course. Does that mean your erroneous ideas are correct - not even close. This thread has continued because you ( and the 3/4 like you) feel the need to pontificate falsely on subjects you obviously have no knowledge of. BMW has decided (like every manufacturer - BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Ford/Mustang) that there are different trim levels for their cars You, and others like you, regardless of instability or irrationality, can't change that. You would be better served proffering your BS elsewhere.

You can continue to attempt to sell your nonsense but no one is listening.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by DenverSteve

You would have intelligent people here believe you, an apparent retard, over BMW, the manufacturer of all of these cars? Actually, nothing you say, or think, has anything to do with BMW manufacturing or marketing. The "M" designation means many different things but one thing that is consistent is that all the M cars are more than the base models.

Is the m3 different than the M340i? Of course. Does that mean your erroneous ideas are correct - not even close. This thread has continued because you ( and the 3/4 like you) feel the need to pontificate falsely on subjects you obviously have no knowledge of. BMW has decided (like every manufacturer - BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Ford/Mustang) that there are different trim levels for their cars You, and others like you, regardless of instability or irrationality, can't change that. You would be better served proffering your BS elsewhere.

You can continue to attempt to sell your nonsense but no one is listening.

Well you seem like a pleasant individual

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by GoneIn4Secs

This isnt even true as they have M3, M3 Competition and M3 CS!

By "trim designations" they mean the 40i, 50i etc. "Competition" isn't a trim, it's a package.

Anyway, those were not my words,, that was a direct quote from the link that was provided by the other individual.... which apparently should be taken as gospel since it's coming from BMW.... except that it goes against the point he's trying to make.... so yeah....

My whole point of posting here was asking a rhetorical question regarding sales impact from introducing models such as an m340i to the mix. I don't give a flying fuck if your x2 m35i identifies as a Pagani huayra. I wasn't here to debate what is or isn't considered an "M" car.

My question for discussion was, has the introduction of models like the m340i had (or will have) a cannibalization of m3 sales, or do we think it will have a halo impact (people getting into an m340i will then want the next step up, an m3). Somehow asking this question got me labeled a retard

[ZL9M2]

This is all very simple. BMW puts the M on almost everything now to sell more cars. And as such has diluted what the M brand has historically represented.

[LookBothWays]

Originally Posted by TAZ007

Worry less about this tomfoolery and more what you want. If the M540 is what you want, get it and enjoy it. We only going around this merry-go wheel once.

Absolutely and I may have jumped into the fray unnecessarily. The rear badge is without the M and is simply 540i so if I remove the steering wheel and add some chrome bits I will be able to drive about with my chin up. I will have to avoid moving up to the M550i in the future or remove all mirrors in the house as I wouldn't want to look at myself. One other pitfall would be the poser M Sport brakes even if they do stop you a bit sooner, save the money to apply to a possible hospital stay for pride's sake. Car buying is a complicated ordeal these days not counting supply issues.

[Acturater]

Originally Posted by LookBothWays

Absolutely and I may have jumped into the fray unnecessarily. The rear badge is without the M and is simply 540i so if I remove the steering wheel and add some chrome bits I will be able to drive about with my chin up. I will have to avoid moving up to the M550i in the future or remove all mirrors in the house as I wouldn't want to look at myself. One other pitfall would be the poser M Sport brakes even if they do stop you a bit sooner, save the money to apply to a possible hospital stay for pride's sake. Car buying is a complicated ordeal these days not counting supply issues.

Oh however will our self worth manage befOre the cold judging eyes of the ever distinguished M consumer (the true ones, not the fake posers amiright?).

[carseatsm5]

I love this thread so much. Second only to the Noelle tune one.

[Jcoop901]

As I sit back munching my popcorn, I find myself mesmerized by the neverending duel.. One minute the M-purists gain the advantage only to be sucker-punched by the M means M on anything upstarts.

A classic battle of the ages.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Jcoop901

As I sit back munching my popcorn, I find myself mesmerized by the neverending duel.. One minute the M-purists gain the advantage only to be sucker-punched by the M means M on anything upstarts.

A classic battle of the ages.

I'll add this to the mix, from BMW Media information. 40 Years BMW M GmbH.

Diesel for BMW M Performance Automobiles.

M goes Diesel.
40 years after the foundation stone of today’s M GmbH was laid, the experts in athletic driving turned their minds to a new project – the BMW M Performance Automobile as an expansion of the model range with a clear focus on athletic performance and unrestricted road-going capability as well as outstanding efficiency. The new product category was launched with four models: BMW M550d xDrive Saloon, BMW M550d xDrive Touring, BMW X5 M50d and BMW X6 M50d. The heart of these cars was a new straight six-cylinder diesel engine developed with three turbochargers and power of 381 hp exclusively for BMW M Performance Automobiles.

[HighlandPete]

Also... where does M-Technic fit into the history of the 'M' Division?

[TAZ007]

Where do M&M's fall in?