[kscarrol]

They are the solution to many things but they are also the driver of deflation and stagnating economies. That's what we've seen in Japan for more than a decade now and we're seeing it in Europe as well. Flat to declining population usually mean no economic growth... That brings about its own set of problems.

[Billup]

Originally Posted by Bobble

USB how archaic, should be wireless link so you can shut them off before they hit the front door.

Pffft, come on peasant. I am not new to this era. If I had everything wireless, there would be "The Fakenning" from people taking over all the house wives making them squirt like a fire hose all over everyone's dinner, we can't have that bullshit. You can only direct connect to reduce outside infiltration.


We are in 2014 bruh, this is going to be in 2034. Wifi will be the most unstable thing this planet has ever seen, right next to Obama of course.

[j_marinelli]

Originally Posted by Kyle B

Declining birth rates aren't the problem, they're the solution.

To add on this I say that the educated population is showing the decline in birth rates, and the uneducated more government dependent population has an increase in population. Would love to see a study on this...

[FC4]

I have 18 kids right now. Now that I'm aware of the environmental dangers of having a 19th kid, I will reconsider.

Thank you for the heads up, OP.

[JasonCSU]

Originally Posted by j_marinelli

To add on this I say that the educated population is showing the decline in birth rates, and the uneducated more government dependent population has an increase in population. Would love to see a study on this...

Just watch the movie Idiocracy.

[MiddleAgedAl]

Originally Posted by kscarrol

They are the solution to many things but they are also the driver of deflation and stagnating economies. That's what we've seen in Japan for more than a decade now and we're seeing it in Europe as well. Flat to declining population usually mean no economic growth... That brings about its own set of problems.

Yes, but the lesser of two evils by far.

I'd rather have a fundamentally sound economy that is has plateaued, rather than one which is growing like mad, but is not sustainable. At least, I dont want to still be around when the bubble inevitably bursts. Participating in a Ponzi scheme seems fun at the beginning, but not so much at the end.

If economic growth is fueled by ever-increasing consumption due to rising population, then there's only 1 way for it to not collapse eventually under it's own weight: if the resources needed to feed this growing demand are also capable of indefinite growth at the same exponential rate. How many natural resources can you think of that satisfy that criteria?

It took less than 12 years to go from 6 billion to 7 billion people. It took over 127 years to go from 1 billion to 2 billion. Exponentiation is fucking scary people. Our ability to accelerate the rate at which we create more consumers, vastly exceeds our ability to create more resources for them to consume.

In the wild, litter sizes of animals are observed to drop off if populations grow too high, too fast, for the resources accessible to them. Especially true if they are geographically constrained, like on an island or something.

With a few notable exceptions, nature manages the boom-bust cycle quite well.

If animals behaved like people, then litter sizes would remain at peak, until all the food was gone, then the generation who had the misfortune to be born at the end would end up all starving to death, and the entire herd on that island would be completely wiped out.

[kscarrol]

Don't get me wrong, I don't disagree... But no economic growth has its own issues. Look to Europe or Japan, aging populations demand more and more support (read government spending) with smaller and smaller young populace to support the system. We are seeing it here in the US as well. Fewer and fewer folks paying into Social Sec. so now the system is headed towards bankruptcy... So no growth is what leads to that collapse. It's coming whether we want to see it or not! I fear for my kids future...

[Billup]

Pffft, I don't. I had the same fear growing up that I wouldn't be able to land a job. If you teach your children to have perseverance, then your children will take it and succeed, or become another statistic.



YOU truly make your own luck in life.

[MiddleAgedAl]

Originally Posted by kscarrol

Don't get me wrong, I don't disagree... But no economic growth has its own issues. Look to Europe or Japan, aging populations demand more and more support (read government spending) with smaller and smaller young populace to support the system. We are seeing it here in the US as well. Fewer and fewer folks paying into Social Sec. so now the system is headed towards bankruptcy... So no growth is what leads to that collapse. It's coming whether we want to see it or not! I fear for my kids future...

Yup, thats a problem for sure. Dont recall the exact numbers, but I read in the 1950's, there was something like 4.x working taxpayers, contributing to soc security, for every retired person. Today I think it's closer to 2.x, and dropping.

So, how do you sustain that, long term? Even if people started to breed like mad to get the numbers back up near 4.x, it would still be worse than the 50's cause the retirees live longer today, and consume social security twice as long, on average as they did back then. Certainly NOT suggesting it's bad that people dont die before 70, but the raw demographic numbers dont lie. The money has to come from somewhere.

To get to the same fiscal sustainability as then, and compensate for the longer drain on the pot of money, you'd probably have to get up to 6.x workers per retiree, or higher. If you started growing like that, I really can't see how to possibly make the resource creation curve catch up, as it's behind already today.

I dont have the answers, but I do know this: If you find yourself in a deep hole, first thing you should do, is stop digging !

[kscarrol]

Originally Posted by Billup

Pffft, I don't. I had the same fear growing up that I wouldn't be able to land a job. If you teach your children to have perseverance, then your children will take it and succeed, or become another statistic.



YOU truly make your own luck in life.

Yes, as a 50 year old man I get this! But you can't ignore the bigger macro changes happening in this country. Our children will not have the opportunity that previous generations had... And I am speaking to the entire generation, doesn't mean individuals can't succeed but the climb is that much tougher.

[Vegetable]

Originally Posted by FC4

I have 18 kids right now. Now that I'm aware of the environmental dangers of having a 19th kid, I will reconsider.

Thank you for the heads up, OP.

Thank you non-OP, my job is done here

[Mr Tonka]

Kids.

It's crude oil, which comes from the earth, no? Humans didn't invent crude oil.

I live on the Gulf, my wife's firm is in Pensacola, we have friends who live along the coast, central and panhandle. None of us saw a drop of oil in the water. Not even my buddy who goes 40 to 70 miles out into the gulf every other weekend or so.

[Maestro]

Originally Posted by MiddleAgedAl

Yes, but the lesser of two evils by far.

I'd rather have a fundamentally sound economy that is has plateaued, rather than one which is growing like mad, but is not sustainable. At least, I dont want to still be around when the bubble inevitably bursts. Participating in a Ponzi scheme seems fun at the beginning, but not so much at the end.

If economic growth is fueled by ever-increasing consumption due to rising population, then there's only 1 way for it to not collapse eventually under it's own weight: if the resources needed to feed this growing demand are also capable of indefinite growth at the same exponential rate. How many natural resources can you think of that satisfy that criteria?

It took less than 12 years to go from 6 billion to 7 billion people. It took over 127 years to go from 1 billion to 2 billion. Exponentiation is fucking scary people. Our ability to accelerate the rate at which we create more consumers, vastly exceeds our ability to create more resources for them to consume.

In the wild, litter sizes of animals are observed to drop off if populations grow too high, too fast, for the resources accessible to them. Especially true if they are geographically constrained, like on an island or something.

With a few notable exceptions, nature manages the boom-bust cycle quite well.

If animals behaved like people, then litter sizes would remain at peak, until all the food was gone, then the generation who had the misfortune to be born at the end would end up all starving to death, and the entire herd on that island would be completely wiped out.

You know why that populations are growing so fast, Modern Medicine is keep people alive who would have otherwise died, we saving people from themselves and keeping mother nature from removing the weaker humans from the population pool. Even with China's one child rule they and india are the countries adding the most people to the surface of the earth. even with Duggers putting out 19 kids most of the US growth comes from people moving to the US.

[Billup]

Originally Posted by kscarrol

Yes, as a 50 year old man I get this! But you can't ignore the bigger macro changes happening in this country. Our children will not have the opportunity that previous generations had... And I am speaking to the entire generation, doesn't mean individuals can't succeed but the climb is that much tougher.

True, I boiled it down too far to an individual level. I don't know, the whole future of the world is pretty grim, IMO. Overpopulation, kids seem to be more expecting of things to be served on a silver platter, and quite honestly, I don't think there are enough proactive plans in place to ensure longevity of our resources.

Like Al said, from 6 to 7 billion in 12 years is...., fast. What kind of plans can be put in place to sustain all these people going forward without destroying the environment more and more with each year that passes.

[Nkc]

Originally Posted by Billup

True, I boiled it down too far to an individual level. I don't know, the whole future of the world is pretty grim, IMO. Overpopulation, kids seem to be more expecting of things to be served on a silver platter, and quite honestly, I don't think there are enough proactive plans in place to ensure longevity of our resources.

Like Al said, from 6 to 7 billion in 12 years is...., fast. What kind of plans can be put in place to sustain all these people going forward without destroying the environment more and more with each year that passes.

Interesting points you and kscarrol bring up about sustainability and opportunities in the future.

Am I alone when I think it would be f'in great to see the world burn? I mean, much have happened in the past tens of thousands of years of mankind but wouldn't it just kick ass to see it end someway or another in our short lifetime? Well at least for mankind.

Honestly if you think we as a civilization of 7 billion people can make a difference on how it ends then be my guest. We can barely agree with each other with all the on going wars that never seems to end. We fuck up our planet with consumerism and waste that cannot be recovered or changed. Problem is that it only gets worse.

Am I the only person here that actually wishes for an apocalypse of some sort that will weed out at least 90% of the world population? I mean serious, who the fuck cares? Nothing is going to change unless some sort of reset button is pressed. At least experiencing something of epic proportions will make my little life worthwhile.

As for our future (kids), times changes and you really can't expect to give them what you or your parents had. Human life on earth is changing so fast that no one or nation can control the outcome. Wouldn't you love the idea of your kids growing up in the same environment that you did where you actually rode bikes to school, didn't have a phone, jacked off with swimsuit/lingerie catalog material, and bonded with nature? Well that shit ain't gonna happen unless you move off the grid or you're Amish.

Sorry I got a little drunk off a late dinner and wanted to vent on society.

[Billup]

Originally Posted by Nkc

Sorry I got a little drunk off a late dinner and wanted to vent on society.

Solid rant, and you're not the only person on any of those accounts. There are so many issues in the world, you can't expect anything less, than for we as humans, to be the end of our own existence. How long will it take? Good question, but there really is no way to know. Between all the hazardous waste, innate byproducts, animal extinction due to our own selfishness, war, standards that are constantly rising...., it's never ending.

Should I have a child in the future, I don't care what all the other spoiled get, they WILL go outside and play, they will not have a damn cell phone until the same age I got one, and they WILL whack off to moms VS catalog.

It would be pretty cool to witness an apocalypse, but I haven't had enough fun in my life yet, so I hope it can hold out for at least another 30 years.

[grimlock]

Originally Posted by Nkc

Interesting points you and kscarrol bring up about sustainability and opportunities in the future.

Am I alone when I think it would be f'in great to see the world burn? I mean, much have happened in the past tens of thousands of years of mankind but wouldn't it just kick ass to see it end someway or another in our short lifetime? Well at least for mankind.

Honestly if you think we as a civilization of 7 billion people can make a difference on how it ends then be my guest. We can barely agree with each other with all the on going wars that never seems to end. We fuck up our planet with consumerism and waste that cannot be recovered or changed. Problem is that it only gets worse.

Am I the only person here that actually wishes for an apocalypse of some sort that will weed out at least 90% of the world population? I mean serious, who the fuck cares? Nothing is going to change unless some sort of reset button is pressed. At least experiencing something of epic proportions will make my little life worthwhile.

As for our future (kids), times changes and you really can't expect to give them what you or your parents had. Human life on earth is changing so fast that no one or nation can control the outcome. Wouldn't you love the idea of your kids growing up in the same environment that you did where you actually rode bikes to school, didn't have a phone, jacked off with swimsuit/lingerie catalog material, and bonded with nature? Well that shit ain't gonna happen unless you move off the grid or you're Amish.

Sorry I got a little drunk off a late dinner and wanted to vent on society.

Yes you are the only one - well actually I know you must have comrade in arms, however as you surmise I am diametrically opposite to you in world view.
What happened that made you think life is not worth living, people are scum, there is no hope etc.?
But everytime I see someone do something antisocial I am reminded of this fact that there are people like you (not personal, bro) who exist.. which I struggle to understand.. if life is such a bitch why not just end it for yourself and save us others who are enjoying ourselves alot of misery? Why do you insist on bringing us down to your level? [semi-jest..]

I posit that life must be worth living otherwise you wouldn't - or shouldn't be. Think about it. But if you still haven't offed yourself.. perhaps something needs to change. Perhaps God is calling you, orphans or starving children are waiting for you to save them.. whatever. Can you just stop littering and making the world incrementally shittier for us on the other side of the spectrum? .. okay I was kiding bro, don't kill yourself... we need you. You wife, you new born child needs you. Just something in your brain needs to change because your anti-social mindset is really getting on my nerves.. okay? cool.

[danniexi]

Originally Posted by 2011CrazE89

Christ! How does one vagina crank out 19+ kids?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/19_Kids_and_Counting

[Nkc]

Originally Posted by grimlock

Yes you are the only one - well actually I know you must have comrade in arms, however as you surmise I am diametrically opposite to you in world view.
What happened that made you think life is not worth living, people are scum, there is no hope etc.?
But everytime I see someone do something antisocial I am reminded of this fact that there are people like you (not personal, bro) who exist.. which I struggle to understand.. if life is such a bitch why not just end it for yourself and save us others who are enjoying ourselves alot of misery? Why do you insist on bringing us down to your level? [semi-jest..]

I posit that life must be worth living otherwise you wouldn't - or shouldn't be. Think about it. But if you still haven't offed yourself.. perhaps something needs to change. Perhaps God is calling you, orphans or starving children are waiting for you to save them.. whatever. Can you just stop littering and making the world incrementally shittier for us on the other side of the spectrum? .. okay I was kiding bro, don't kill yourself... we need you. You wife, you new born child needs you. Just something in your brain needs to change because your anti-social mindset is really getting on my nerves.. okay? cool.

I don't think that life isn't worth living and honestly I'm probably one of the happier people that are living here right now. You on the other hand seem a little downer-ish at times (just based on the threads you start, nth personal) and I feel for you.

I'm not anti-social and I have a great outlook in life, just that I'm saying it would be quite awesome to have the opportunity to see some real shit come down. Not alone of course, that would be silly as I would also probably be the last to off myself, unless you add the word jack or whack before that. And come on, you don't fantasize about a zombie apocalypses or a good old fashioned natural disaster that changes the way we live completely?

I'm not saying that every living thing should die, just a good amount of humans would do the world a lot of good (I'm not selfish, I would include myself if shit hits hard). I mean, can you imagine if HK didn't have 7.2 million people? How would 3.5 million make you feel? You catching my drift?

Man I really hope anti terrorism agencies aren't checking up on me now.

[grimlock]

Originally Posted by Nkc

I don't think that life isn't worth living and honestly I'm probably one of the happier people that are living here right now. You on the other hand seem a little downer-ish at times (just based on the threads you start, nth personal) and I feel for you.

I'm not anti-social and I have a great outlook in life, just that I'm saying it would be quite awesome to have the opportunity to see some real shit come down. Not alone of course, that would be silly as I would also probably be the last to off myself, unless you add the word jack or whack before that. And come on, you don't fantasize about a zombie apocalypses or a good old fashioned natural disaster that changes the way we live completely?

I'm not saying that every living thing should die, just a good amount of humans would do the world a lot of good (I'm not selfish, I would include myself if shit hits hard). I mean, can you imagine if HK didn't have 7.2 million people? How would 3.5 million make you feel? You catching my drift?

Man I really hope anti terrorism agencies aren't checking up on me now.

No doubt I have issues I vent on too..
I just wanted to understand what was so appealing about seeing some real shit go down - is it because of overpopulation, the wrong types of people are alive..?
I never thought about how it would be better or worse with alot less people, but I do like to villify certain types of ppl lol.. but I am concerned about further increases in population just because it seems like a strain.

[UncleWede]

All you young pups need to expand your vision and get humanity to the stars before I die!!! Plenty of natural resources out there for the human virus to expand.

[Billup]

Originally Posted by Jexter

What the hell is this thread about?

Well assuming you are literate, there is a thread title and an original post you can refer to if you'd like to find out.

If you have trouble reading, I can record myself reading it and email it to you? It might come with surprises though, so that's your choice, feel lucky today?