[1chanc3]

Originally Posted by Bahn360Photo

thats so funny for you guys to mention this, i parked near a Chrysler dealer and saw hellcat and viper on the showroom floor. being a fan of the first generation viper i was drooling and had to walk in. as u mentioned all doors were locked, they refused to even acknowledge my presence and when i asked to sit in hellcat the guy smirked and said its not for me. maybe because of how i was dressed, i didnt have the suit and tie to match the 96k over price tag on the hell cat then i asked about the viper and he asked to stay few feet away!!! if this was my first time near that car my childhood dream would shatter and i would hate them forever, BUT i didnt say much just walked around stared at it for few minutes. in the mean time same nasty salesman and his buddy were drooling over my m3 and walked out to check it out. as i was leaving i walked up and said, "this car is not for u guys, and stay few feet away please" .......... Priceless look on their faces.

service makes a big difference

My buddy who is younger than me (23 yr old) wanted to get the latest gen mustang GT. Went to a local dealership and they denied him saying the cars are meant for serious buyers and most mustang owners want low mileage, blah blah. He contacted Ford NA and they made sure he got an appointment to drive the car with that dealership. After the complaint and test drive, they couldn't come to a price agreement and as he was walking out of the showroom all of the employees were chanting "pussy. no show. we knew you couldn't afford it" along with other various rude comments. They even started taking pictures of him with their cellphones (not sure why).

Do these car salesmen think their 30k car is like 100k?

Funny thing is, my friend would have bought it on the spot if they were nicer. He ended up getting a 2014 Porsche Cayman S.

[ShocknAwe]

Originally Posted by 1chanc3

My buddy who is younger than me (23 yr old) wanted to get the latest gen mustang GT. Went to a local dealership and they denied him saying the cars are meant for serious buyers and most mustang owners want low mileage, blah blah. He contacted Ford NA and they made sure he got an appointment to drive the car with that dealership. After the complaint and test drive, they couldn't come to a price agreement and as he was walking out of the showroom all of the employees were chanting "pussy. no show. we knew you couldn't afford it" along with other various rude comments. They even started taking pictures of him with their cellphones (not sure why).

Do these car salesmen think their 30k car is like 100k?

Funny thing is, my friend would have bought it on the spot if they were nicer. He ended up getting a 2014 Porsche Cayman S.

He should go back and ask them all if they want to come see his new car.

Spiteful and a waste of time, but good for the soul.

[Fahrvergnügen]

Originally Posted by 1chanc3

My buddy who is younger than me (23 yr old) wanted to get the latest gen mustang GT. Went to a local dealership and they denied him saying the cars are meant for serious buyers and most mustang owners want low mileage, blah blah. He contacted Ford NA and they made sure he got an appointment to drive the car with that dealership. After the complaint and test drive, they couldn't come to a price agreement and as he was walking out of the showroom all of the employees were chanting "pussy. no show. we knew you couldn't afford it" along with other various rude comments. They even started taking pictures of him with their cellphones (not sure why).

Do these car salesmen think their 30k car is like 100k?

Funny thing is, my friend would have bought it on the spot if they were nicer. He ended up getting a 2014 Porsche Cayman S.

A somewhat related story...

With about 2 months remaining on my E89 lease, I was car shopping on a Friday afternoon and decided to go to Grossinger Chevy to test drive a Stingray Z51. Before I drove over, though, I called and made sure they had one in stock that I could test drive, they said yes...

I got there and told them my situation and they saw me pull up in my Z4, so it's not like random kid walking in to drive a corvette. An old fuddy duddy salesman assisted me, unlocked the corvette and let me sit in it while he pulled the specs on that one and some other in storage. I chatted with him for about 30-40 minutes and finally asked to test drive.

He hesitated and walked over to his manager to tell him the 'situation'. He came back and said "we have to run your credit and fill out some paperwork before you can test drive". I gently reminded him I just wanted to go for a short test drive and didn't want my credit score ran since it can hurt your score. I also reminded him and his manager that no other car dealership ever asked for a credit check.

They ran me in circles telling me they don't even lease corvettes (which I showed them that swap-a-lease had plenty of leased corvettes), that they don't let people test drive the stingray since 'people don't need to test drive a vehicle like THIS!', and that it is protocol to run a credit check even though I called a hour before to confirm I could test drive with no hassle.

Now, I was 26 years old walking in there and they treated me like a kindergartener on his first day to school. How do they ever expect to change there tainted image and sell cars (sports cars especially) to young professionals with this type of service? I ended telling the manager his operation and sales team is a sham and unprofessionally deceiving. 1 week later after scoping out the rest of the cars I was interested in, I put my order in for my M4

The funny part is, the one 'reasonable' guy at the chevy dealer (a junior manger I think) walked me out to my car which he had to valet and told me my car was actually more fun to drive to the valet spot than the stingray. Kudos to honesty but where the hell did he valet my car if he had that much fun? haha

[Bahn360Photo]

Originally Posted by 1chanc3

My buddy who is younger than me (23 yr old) wanted to get the latest gen mustang GT. Went to a local dealership and they denied him saying the cars are meant for serious buyers and most mustang owners want low mileage, blah blah. He contacted Ford NA and they made sure he got an appointment to drive the car with that dealership. After the complaint and test drive, they couldn't come to a price agreement and as he was walking out of the showroom all of the employees were chanting "pussy. no show. we knew you couldn't afford it" along with other various rude comments. They even started taking pictures of him with their cellphones (not sure why).

Do these car salesmen think their 30k car is like 100k?

Funny thing is, my friend would have bought it on the spot if they were nicer. He ended up getting a 2014 Porsche Cayman S.

So far all the stories came to a conclusion that people went and bought bmw's and Porsches. I think they are all winners and the only losers in these situations are car manufacturers because after m4, having a Camaro mustang or even corvette as anything but pure cheap built race cars is a dumb idea.
Then people wonder why only 90 years olds drive new vettes, maybe because they are the only ones treated seriously by dealers

I say great! I'm sure bmw, Porsche, merc and Audi don't mind getting a ton more enthusiastic clients that will end up with their brand for the next 20 cars

[Electron mike]

Originally Posted by TahoeM3

Can you be more specific on the issues you had?

1. Overheating on track after just a few laps, and not only when in high ambient temps. I had the oil temp over 300 degrees on a 65 degree day at COTA In three laps. On pilot super sports.
2. Gauge cluster goes out intermittently. Very disconcerting on track when all gauges are gone.
3. Broken lower control arm ( scary!)
4. Fuel delivery problems on track that GM couldn't fix. Caused car to go into limp mode on track in every session.
5. Transmission grinds when not up to full operating temp, which takes about 30 minutes of driving on the street.
6. On the rare occasion it did run ok for a lap or two, once up to temp it pulls so much timing the car drops power signicantly. From trap speed of 150 on the back straight at COTA to 138 (Obd 2 numbers).

[Savory]

Originally Posted by Electron mike

1. Overheating on track after just a few laps, and not only when in high ambient temps. I had the oil temp over 300 degrees on a 65 degree day at COTA In three laps. On pilot super sports.
2. Gauge cluster goes out intermittently. Very disconcerting on track when all gauges are gone.
3. Broken lower control arm ( scary!)
4. Fuel delivery problems on track that GM couldn't fix. Caused car to go into limp mode on track in every session.
5. Transmission grinds when not up to full operating temp, which takes about 30 minutes of driving on the street.
6. On the rare occasion it did run ok for a lap or two, once up to temp it pulls so much timing the car drops power signicantly. From trap speed of 150 on the back straight at COTA to 138 (Obd 2 numbers).

Yikees. I love the Z06 but it looks like it is a pure numbers car. What's the point of all the power and agility if reliability on track is poor? Car needs more development time.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by 1chanc3

My buddy who is younger than me (23 yr old) wanted to get the latest gen mustang GT. Went to a local dealership and they denied him saying the cars are meant for serious buyers and most mustang owners want low mileage, blah blah. He contacted Ford NA and they made sure he got an appointment to drive the car with that dealership. After the complaint and test drive, they couldn't come to a price agreement and as he was walking out of the showroom all of the employees were chanting "pussy. no show. we knew you couldn't afford it" along with other various rude comments. They even started taking pictures of him with their cellphones (not sure why).

Do these car salesmen think their 30k car is like 100k?

Funny thing is, my friend would have bought it on the spot if they were nicer. He ended up getting a 2014 Porsche Cayman S.

That happened to my roommate although not that harsh. They wouldn't let him test drive a WRX. I gave him a ride to the dealership and they absolutely refused saying it was for serious buyers and that buyers want low miles, etc etc.

He ended up getting an Audi A3, unlike Subaru, they let him drive the damn thing.

I think if a salesman ever said that to me over a Mustang GT, I'd just laugh.

[TahoeM3]

Originally Posted by Electron mike

1. Overheating on track after just a few laps, and not only when in high ambient temps. I had the oil temp over 300 degrees on a 65 degree day at COTA In three laps. On pilot super sports.
2. Gauge cluster goes out intermittently. Very disconcerting on track when all gauges are gone.
3. Broken lower control arm ( scary!)
4. Fuel delivery problems on track that GM couldn't fix. Caused car to go into limp mode on track in every session.
5. Transmission grinds when not up to full operating temp, which takes about 30 minutes of driving on the street.
6. On the rare occasion it did run ok for a lap or two, once up to temp it pulls so much timing the car drops power signicantly. From trap speed of 150 on the back straight at COTA to 138 (Obd 2 numbers).

That's definitely a lot of major problems for a new car...good to know, thanks!

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Electron mike

1. Overheating on track after just a few laps, and not only when in high ambient temps. I had the oil temp over 300 degrees on a 65 degree day at COTA In three laps. On pilot super sports.
2. Gauge cluster goes out intermittently. Very disconcerting on track when all gauges are gone.
3. Broken lower control arm ( scary!)
4. Fuel delivery problems on track that GM couldn't fix. Caused car to go into limp mode on track in every session.
5. Transmission grinds when not up to full operating temp, which takes about 30 minutes of driving on the street.
6. On the rare occasion it did run ok for a lap or two, once up to temp it pulls so much timing the car drops power signicantly. From trap speed of 150 on the back straight at COTA to 138 (Obd 2 numbers).

Did you lemon it?

[Mingwan]

Why is Jeremy called Jezza? When I first heard people calling him Jezza on Top Gear, I thought they were making fun of him by calling him jizzer like it was his nick name or something.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by Mingwan

Why is Jeremy called Jezza? When I first heard people calling him Jezza on Top Gear, I thought they were making fun of him by calling him jizzer like it was his nick name or something.

It's a common nickname for someone named Jeremy.

[myzmak]

Originally Posted by Mingwan

Why is Jeremy called Jezza? When I first heard people calling him Jezza on Top Gear, I thought they were making fun of him by calling him jizzer like it was his nick name or something.

Originally Posted by Railgun

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jezza

Originally Posted by fecurtis

It's a common nickname for someone named Jeremy.

Kansas meet England, England Kansas.

In return for this information, surely Mingwan can explain to the Limeys why there was a Kansan named 'Goober' on the Andy Griffith show.....

[note: alternative response was "Mingwan, you ain't in Kansas no more...."]

[myzmak]

Originally Posted by Railgun

You kidding?

That's every auto journalist in the world, not to mention nearly every auto enthusiast forum.

Yup.

All kinds of reasons why too.....

Some of it is just pure nationalism. There is always a 'home crowd' bias in auto reviewing. American publications will pump up cars like Caddy vs the Euros (whereas most British and Europeans will ignore those cars), the British will always include a Jag in a comparison test (whereas the 'Muricans will ignore them), the Japanese/Asian reviewers will always bring in their cars (often, though perhaps a bit less often, ignored by others).

Part of this is just homerism but, frankly, part of it is that people tend to like what they know/grew up with. Americans like 'muscle power', Europeans like finesse, Japanese reviewers love tech (he said making wildly broad but hopefully not unfair stereotyping of people, reviewers and car traits....) So if a boy from, say, Kansas is asked to find the best of a particular type of car, odds are that he is more likely to like a great big roaring V8 Z06 that goes like stink than a small I6 made to balance in the corners......

Also other things going on. Americans will often ignore the British because Americans tend to be a bit more insular in their world view (oh yeah - forgot they had cars there....) The British will take shots at Americans because, wedged between the continent and North America, there is a bit of existential need to fight for and carve out their 'place' - one of the ways one establishes oneself as legitimate is to bring down the perceived competition. Europeans will, to a point, look down on 'unrefined' Americans and Americans will, in turn, think of the continentals as being snobs....

There are all just big geo-societal trends that play out in everything, including car stuff.

Clarkson's constant bashing of fat Americans (while shamelessly silent on the gut he was sporting this year) is as expected as an American in Paris complaining about 'rude' French waiters....

[Nitrousbird]

It stinks of BMW fanbois in here.

Name a single new German car that can truly compete peformance wise with the Z06 for under 500k. Porsche is the only one that is close but still fails.

[myzmak]

Originally Posted by Nitrousbird

It stinks of BMW fanbois in here.

Name a single new German car that can truly compete peformance wise with the Z06 for under 500k. Porsche is the only one that is close but still fails.

What...?
people who like BMWs on a B!W forum?!?!?!

Call the FBI! call the UN! Call the baby Jesus! Armageddon is upon us!!!!!!!!!

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by myzmak

Clarkson's constant bashing of fat Americans (while shamelessly silent on the gut he was sporting this year) is as expected as an American in Paris complaining about 'rude' French waiters....

Gut?!...looks like he is carrying a baby elephant.

[myzmak]

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

Gut?!...looks like he is carrying a baby elephant.

[Nitrousbird]

Originally Posted by myzmak

What...?
people who like BMWs on a B!W forum?!?!?!

Call the FBI! call the UN! Call the baby Jesus! Armageddon is upon us!!!!!!!!!

Blind devotion is embarrassing.

Originally Posted by Railgun

(Un)fortunately for some, it's not simply about how fast around a track it will go. And if we're going under 500K, there are plenty that will spank it.

Name a single German car that will outrun a new Z06 around a track for under 500k. Just one. Please.

[myzmak]

Name a single German car that will outrun a new Z06 around a track for under 500k. Just one. Please.

Which track, which driver, what conditions?

Or should we go based on our personal experiences? I for one know I don't have remotely enough experience in the segment you have chosen (namely: every single German car under $500k and the just released C7 Z06).

But from your claim, you must. Do, please, detail for us the vastness of your experience. Please. And, given how vast it just be, I insist on particulars. Do, pray tell, let us know each and every car you have driven when, where, what conditions, what times, etc. Spare no details good sir.

I look forward to being educated by one as knowledgable in these matters as you.

Originally Posted by Nitrousbird

Blind devotion is embarrassing.

So are meaningless claims.

[wisesoul]

Originally Posted by Nitrousbird

Blind devotion is embarrassing.


Name a single German car that will outrun a new Z06 around a track for under 500k. Just one. Please.

I mean... You didn't say street legal lol..

$45k
http://rennlist.com/forums/porsche-c...ans-entry.html

$190k
http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=107517

$88k
KTM X-Bow (Street Legal)

If you ask me, I'd buy that GT3R for 45 then a Z51 vette. Fix the headgasket for a few grand, still under the asking price of a Z06!

A Z06 with proper cooling, better heat exchanges and a tune will be very very good. I'd consider one in the future if they address the limp mode dilemma plaguing the LT4.

[hellrotm]

Ideally I would like GM to offer the Stingray with the Z07 package. I would like the NA LT1 with the Z07 body, aero, brakes, etc.

[FC4]

Originally Posted by myzmak

Which track, which driver, what conditions?

Or should we go based on our personal experiences? I for one know I don't have remotely enough experience in the segment you have chosen (namely: every single German car under $500k and the just released C7 Z06).

But from your claim, you must. Do, please, detail for us the vastness of your experience. Please. And, given how vast it just be, I insist on particulars. Do, pray tell, let us know each and every car you have driven when, where, what conditions, what times, etc. Spare no details good sir.

I look forward to being educated by one as knowledgable in these matters as you.

Good job dodging his question.

But I'll help you out with your first bit: Any track. Any driver. Any conditions. <$500K German cars faster around a track than a C7 Z06. Go!