[Bbb34]

I personally don't see anything wrong with RR as a brand wanting to protect their "regional" dealership. By looking after their dealerships, they can hope for loyalty in return, great service and after sales customer support. Otherwise they could just sell cars online with no middle man. This also helps them keep the prices steady (MSRP or close to it), as they don't seem to have lots of inventory sitting on the lots.

Also, I don't see anything wrong with OP expecting a discount. But like everything else in life, it's a matter of supply and demand. Salesperson you were dealing with clearly knows the rules about regional sales and is aware of the fact he's selling a product that's very much in demand.

Boils down to how much does your wife really want one

[gtron]

Originally Posted by evanescent03

...in so many words.

My wife and I are looking for something to replace our 2014 X3. Criteria are: larger, higher towing capacity, something we like, generally speaking (preferences trump rationality in some cases).

We drove a Range Rover Sport Diesel yesterday and really enjoyed it, but I was a little turned off by the no-haggle approach the salesman took. After the test drive we talked a little; he was friendly, professional, and knowledgeable. I asked where their sales typically landed on the Invoice to MSRP spectrum and he told me it's MSRP, no lower. I found this odd, but it's not unheard of for dealerships to do this. BMW has a less ultra-premium (?) lineup but still is a luxury brand... they discount all the time even on M cars.

I went shopping on Cars dot com and found a car similar to the one we would want (note: the local dealership doesn't have one fitting our color/options desires). I emailed asking for more info and got a response back stating <b>"thank you for your interest, but you are outside of our zone of responsibility, please see your local Land Rover dealership</b>

Are you kidding me? You won't sell a car to an out of tower? People travel far and wide, passing multiple dealerships along the way to get the car they want at a price they're comfortable with. What is this all about??? Has anyone else ever dealt with this? It's soooo bizarre to me. It honestly is a turnoff to the entire brand because I bet this comes from their higher-ups.

Thought I'd share for a laugh, if for nothing else.

put the dealer and sales person on blast here. they will not act the same when his/her sales decline.

i walk away from cars that i can afford all the time if i don't like the number or the person/company i'm dealing with.

[overcoil]

Originally Posted by smrtypants44

Yeah range rover dealerships have specific "catchment" areas that are in their contract with Range Rover Corporate. They arent allowed to sell outside of that area. I guess its easier for Range Rover to get dealers to set up shop if they are guaranteed all sales from a certain region.

I think what is really going on is that LRNA gives bonuses to dealers that sell the most to buyers in their allocated territory. LRNA must be tracking the residences of the buyers to the dealer and this is incentive enough for dealers to abide by the incentive. Since the cars are in high demand and supplies are limited?

Dealers are independent and it strikes me as questionable that a dealer couldn't sell to anyone they wanted to anywhere, on the other hand, excluding actions like discrimination based on race or gender, a dealer doesn't have to sell a car to anyone of they don't want. And conversely a dealer could sell to anyone they wanted, so if your buying it's worth contacting as many dealers to hear if one will sell to an out of state or distant buyer.

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by gtron

put the dealer and sales person on blast here. they will not act the same when his/her sales decline.

i walk away from cars that i can afford all the time if i don't like the number or the person/company i'm dealing with.

This.

Get up and walk out when the stupidity factor exceeds your own personal threshold of reasonability. Just as the OP did.

Cheers-mk

P.S. The relationship between the CA or salesperson and the customer is perverse in most non-retail direct transaction relationships. Cars and real estate are prime examples of this.

[FriskyDingo]

That would leave an awful bad taste in my mouth. I like their new offerings, but paying sticker to get treatment like that? Pass.

[Ravenseal]

Originally Posted by evanescent03

I have definitely heard about getting poor service from a different dealership. This is why if I decided to buy from across town I would probably also get service at that dealership.

I think the reality is most service departments may not even know where you got your vehicle and don't care as long as they are building revenue but some definitely may care, then you're up sh** creek. I would rather take it to the same guys; more likely get a loaner and better service, i think most people can relate to the slap in the face bringing a competitors product to you, although people move, so hopefully it isn't a flat rule to treat others poorly, but maybe the loyal guys get treated better. Even being loyal is not a guarantee for good service either, lol.

If you want my opinion, buy a Land Cruiser. Those things are built like rocks, last a lifetime, are entirely reliable, and don't have an douchebag following.

http://www.toyota.com/landcruiser/

[FriskyDingo]

[dsad1]

Originally Posted by Ravenseal

If you want my opinion, buy a Land Cruiser. Those things are built like rocks, last a lifetime, are entirely reliable, and don't have an douchebag following.

http://www.toyota.com/landcruiser/

Easy said on this forum, but now try to convince his wife. I know nothing about his wife, but I have seen many women lust over the look of the range rover and don't care about any of the other horrors it could bring.

[evanescent03]

Originally Posted by See5

Have you looked at the prices for current gen used RR's lately? I'm in automotive sales and a few months ago had a customer trade in a 2014 RR probably a year after he bought it. We pretty much gave him what he paid for it. They are inferno hot right now. Very low supply in the market.

I am NOT in sales and RR popped up on my radar without much notice so I didn't do a ton of research before going in there. But that's why I candidly asked him where the rebates/incentives stand. I know the RR is "hot" but since I do see plenty of them around and they have models both much more AND less expensive than the sport I was looking at, it doesn't seem so incredibly special. I totally understand supply/demand and if "that's how RR does business" that's fine. it's not unfathomable to me but I guess I don't hold the RRs on as much of a pedastool as many people apparently do.. they sure don't seem to be in THAT short of supply. The dealership has 3 Sports and like 9 full size Rovers not to mention a slew of the smaller cars in a really small city.

*shrug* I'm always learning but this came as a bit of surprise. it doesn't completely remove the cars from my list but I think some of the appeal has been lost (not sure if my wife cares as much about all this stuff though so we may still get one eventually).

[evanescent03]

Originally Posted by djsaad1

Easy said on this forum, but now try to convince his wife. I know nothing about his wife, but I have seen many women lust over the look of the range rover and don't care about any of the other horrors it could bring.

interestingly enough, the Land Cruiser is also one of her favorites! she had a yellow wrangler in college and does like the Land Cruiser! I'm gonna look into it again. thanks for the reminder guys!

[catchm3ifyoucann]

Not odd at all Land Rover dealerships don't like to infringe on another LR sales. They do not like stealing sales and will typically direct you to your local dealership.

If you have any questions about buying a LR shoot me a PM

[Jamesons Viggen]

I negotiate car deals for friends, family and co-workers. It comes out to 10-15 cars a year.

So my realtors partner wanted me help in ordering a Rover Sport 3.0T. Ordering BMWs I was thinking I would get many thousands off. Then I went to a Rover board and people said they got MSRP or $500 off at best, what?

The best I could do was all weather mats for free and $2000 off which according to the forums was nearly unheard of.

[TwinTurboXI]

Everyone is still missing the real reason they wont sell out of market. It's not that they don't want to infringe on another dealers territory, It's the simplest and most effective (in their eyes) to limit the amount of vehicles exported and therefore limiting the number of charge backs from Land Rover USA.

[gtron]

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

I negotiate car deals for friends, family and co-workers. It comes out to 10-15 cars a year.

So my realtors partner wanted me help in ordering a Rover Sport 3.0T. Ordering BMWs I was thinking I would get many thousands off. Then I went to a Rover board and people said they got MSRP or $500 off at best, what?

The best I could do was all weather mats for free and $2000 off which according to the forums was nearly unheard of.

this is normal. they pretty much only make what they're going to sell. they're not a big company. $2k is very good.

[dsad1]

Originally Posted by TwinTurboXI

Everyone is still missing the real reason they wont sell out of market. It's not that they don't want to infringe on another dealers territory, It's the simplest and most effective (in their eyes) to limit the amount of vehicles exported and therefore limiting the number of charge backs from Land Rover USA.

Don't you sign a non export agreement when buying? I never really paid attention, but I would guess it's in the contract.

I am also wondering how much of this really goes on. It couldn't be easy avoiding taxes in the country your importing too, and why is it specifically a problem with this car? And not the others?

Not saying you are wrong in any way, I just don't understand what the game is here on exporting range rovers.

[TwinTurboXI]

Originally Posted by djsaad1

Don't you sign a non export agreement when buying? I never really paid attention, but I would guess it's in the contract.

I am also wondering how much of this really goes on. It couldn't be easy avoiding taxes in the country your importing too, and why is it specifically a problem with this car? And not the others?

Not saying you are wrong in any way, I just don't understand what the game is here on exporting range rovers.

Yes, you are correct, buried in all the new car paperwork is a non export clause. Now, many dealers are having their own lawyers draft contracts with clients that are purchasing these hot export vehicles and attempting to make them financially liable for vehicles that end up exported.

This is why dealers with these hot cars, Range Rover's, some Mercedes/BMW /Lexus suv's will insist on only selling these local. Again, this is not to "avoid stepping on other dealers toes." It's to avoid charge backs or other sanctions from the manufacturer. See below:

"Lexus attempted to sanction Hendrick Lexus of Charleston over sales that wound up in Wainwright’s hands, Yarborough told investigators. The car manufacturer backed down because the Savannah Highway dealership was able to prove that it “lacked knowledge that the vehicles would be exported because both purchasers were local residents living in South Carolina.”
“The manufacturer will fine us between $6,000 and $10,000,” he said.
http://www.postandcourier.com/articl...PC05/150119373

[TwinTurboXI]

Here's another article on the export business:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...ar-market.html

[evanescent03]

Originally Posted by TwinTurboXI

Yes, you are correct, buried in all the new car paperwork is a non export clause. Now, many dealers are having their own lawyers draft contracts with clients that are purchasing these hot export vehicles and attempting to make them financially liable for vehicles that end up exported.

This is why dealers with these hot cars, Range Rover's, some Mercedes/BMW /Lexus suv's will insist on only selling these local. Again, this is not to "avoid stepping on other dealers toes." It's to avoid charge backs or other sanctions from the manufacturer. See below:

"Lexus attempted to sanction Hendrick Lexus of Charleston over sales that wound up in Wainwright’s hands, Yarborough told investigators. The car manufacturer backed down because the Savannah Highway dealership was able to prove that it “lacked knowledge that the vehicles would be exported because both purchasers were local residents living in South Carolina.”
“The manufacturer will fine us between $6,000 and $10,000,” he said.
http://www.postandcourier.com/articl...PC05/150119373

very interesting. it seems like if the dealership has a form for the buyer to sign saying they won't export, the dealership shouldn't be liable. I guess it discourages knowingly flowing them immediately out of the country but seems harsh to fine them. Isn't that like blaming the dealership for the owner being involved in hauling drugs/bodies in the car or getting into a hit-n-run? Then LR should get the feds after the individual who shipped the car out (assuming it's even illegal, I haven't dug into this enough yet..).

[overcoil]

How about 'arbitration' clauses in sales (dealership) contracts.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by evanescent03

very interesting. it seems like if the dealership has a form for the buyer to sign saying they won't export, the dealership shouldn't be liable. I guess it discourages knowingly flowing them immediately out of the country but seems harsh to fine them. Isn't that like blaming the dealership for the owner being involved in hauling drugs/bodies in the car or getting into a hit-n-run? Then LR should get the feds after the individual who shipped the car out (assuming it's even illegal, I haven't dug into this enough yet..).

That's the thing; it's not illegal to export fairly and legally purchased consumer goods if the exportation is for personal use--for instance, if you're moving to a different country. If the exportation is specifically for resale, then the line gets far more gray.

The rub here is that the manufacturer of the good should be released of all liability in the latter case if the good is intended to be re-sold by the original owner/party to a third party. You bought the good: it's now yours, not the manufacturer's. However, in special cases, manufacturers are compelled to do all they can to prevent third-party sales because of how it protects business in the target country.

Autos have been one of those "special cases" for decades. Those of you older than, say, 40 should remember the gray market of the 1970s and 80s that existed for exotic Euro-spec cars to the U.S. One of BMW's most legendary cars was one of the more sought-after in that gray market: the M1. It was never officially sold in the U.S., yet a number of them made it here and were licensed here. That market dried up as exportation and country-specific specifications loosened and narrowed, but other markets took its place -- namely, Latin America and Asia. Car theft of luxury marques in the U.S. in the 1990s was primarily driven by the gray market that flourished in Central America during that time.

But enough of that. Range Rover is doing this not just to protect its goods from gray exportation. It's also doing it to protect the exclusivity of its brand. Many European luxury apparel makers -- Chanel being the best known of them -- practice similar export policies and demand the same from its retail partners. It's simply doing what it can to keep availability low, prices high, and inventory controlled based on its sales goals globally.

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

That's the thing; it's not illegal to export fairly and legally purchased consumer goods if the exportation is for personal use--for instance, if you're moving to a different country. If the exportation is specifically for resale, then the line gets far more gray.

The rub here is that the manufacturer of the good should be released of all liability in the latter case if the good is intended to be re-sold by the original owner/party to a third party. You bought the good: it's now yours, not the manufacturer's. However, in special cases, manufacturers are compelled to do all they can to prevent third-party sales because of how it protects business in the target country.

Autos have been one of those "special cases" for decades. Those of you older than, say, 40 should remember the gray market of the 1970s and 80s that existed for exotic Euro-spec cars to the U.S. One of BMW's most legendary cars was one of the more sought-after in that gray market: the M1. It was never officially sold in the U.S., yet a number of them made it here and were licensed here. That market dried up as exportation and country-specific specifications loosened and narrowed, but other markets took its place -- namely, Latin America and Asia. Car theft of luxury marques in the U.S. in the 1990s was primarily driven by the gray market that flourished in Central America during that time.

But enough of that. Range Rover is doing this not just to protect its goods from gray exportation. It's also doing it to protect the exclusivity of its brand. Many European luxury apparel makers -- Chanel being the best known of them -- practice similar export policies and demand the same from its retail partners. It's simply doing what it can to keep availability low, prices high, and inventory controlled based on its sales goals globally.

Ah...the good old days!

My first ride in a true Euro-spec car was a gray-market 190E 2.3-16 at an importer in my home town. It was EPIC! We were taking it to MSY, saw a jet on final approach and tried to race it to the airport on the spillway bridge.
Good memories.

Thanks for the great information and the memories.
Cheers-mk

[catchm3ifyoucann]

Majority of LR dealers will only give $500 off the vehicle and the only time anymore is discounted is if you are purchasing your 3rd or 4th one. Even then most owners don't care, we are talking about people who drive Ranger Rovers, and to them they don't ask for discounts / deals. Especially if it comes to the new Ranger Rovers I have heard of people buy the car and then a couple months later resell it for over $10k profit, demand is crazy, and to even get an order in is hard. At most dealerships there are waiting lists. With that said I know of one dealer that can and will discount to move volume. Other than that you are out of luck. At my local dealer they turned down a buyer who wanted to purchase 10 Ranger Rovers brand new, because they knew well that the buyer would then export these vehicles to China where they go for over $150k. If a dealer has inventory that is bought and later ends up in a foreign market the penalty is severe hence why no dealership wants to take the chance.