[Phatcat]

Originally Posted by WW435

I don't believe these rankings have as much to do with stock performance as you are implying.

Yeah, if it is based on stock price, revenues, and physical assets, besides Toyota which will still be #1, all other rankings will be very different.

Toyota market cap is at 176B and is more than double of the next biggest automotive company. Meanwhile thanks to Tesla's recent ran up of the stock price, it is now almost worth the same as BMW, both around 60B, and is the most valuable American automotive company.

The article already said this Brand Z ranking is based on interviews with consumers. I never read too much into this ranking and prefer market cap because that's where people put their money instead of their mouth.

Though you can argue most people must be stupid to buy that much into Tesla's stocks but that's another story.

[sygazelle]

Originally Posted by WW435

I imagine they aren't chuckling at their stock performance and overall sales figures.

All car companies have had a rough time in the stock market.


Your comment about sales figures is puzzling. Here's the past 4 years. I'm pretty sure they are still chuckling. Look, it can always be better, but I don't think anybody is jumping out of windows.

[Fundguy1]

That's only a partial picture. Last quarter they lost $330 million. The only reason they were afloat was stock profits and loans. Worse than last year when they lost $674 million.
http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/tsla/fi...come-statement

[Acexxon]

Tesla is very innovative, but honestly, their interior is like crap. You can't compare a Tesla to any European cars period. Someone looking for luxury interior will never choose a Tesla. Not saying their products aren't good, just different market.

[WWM3]

Originally Posted by sygazelle

All car companies have had a rough time in the stock market.


Your comment about sales figures is puzzling. Here's the past 4 years. I'm pretty sure they are still chuckling. Look, it can always be better, but I don't think anybody is jumping out of windows.

How about the NA numbers? How did they compare to their peers? That will provide you a better picture. And no not every auto stock struggled over the last several years.

[WWM3]

Originally Posted by Phatcat

Yeah, if it is based on stock price, revenues, and physical assets, besides Toyota which will still be #1, all other rankings will be very different.

Toyota market cap is at 176B and is more than double of the next biggest automotive company. Meanwhile thanks to Tesla's recent ran up of the stock price, it is now almost worth the same as BMW, both around 60B, and is the most valuable American automotive company.

The article already said this Brand Z ranking is based on interviews with consumers. I never read too much into this ranking and prefer market cap because that's where people put their money instead of their mouth.

Though you can argue most people must be stupid to buy that much into Tesla's stocks but that's another story.

Exactly.

With regard to Tesla stock, I wouldn't buy it. I prefer sound fundamentals. However it appears I've been wrong so far.

[Yeru]

The rankings, while having some value, still don't reflect reality. BMW competes in the premium segment. It would be more informative to see Lexus and not Toyota stacked against BMW, Mercedes etc.

[David70]

As a consumer I don't care at all.
As an investor I don't care much at all (possibly not at all).
As mgmt. in the company I might care a little.

If I was told Rolex has the highest brand value of all watches, not sure why I would care about this either, at any level.

[MalibuBimmer]

I think this study is completely meaningless. How was it done?

The study combines measures of brand equity based on interviews with more than 3 million consumers globally using data from Bloomberg and Kantar Worldpanel.

Gobbledegook. I translate that as "We rank them however we like." And based on "3 million interviews"? Bullshit.

JD Power has created so many categories that every car company -- which subscribes to its services -- can claim a few victories. Everyone gets a participation ribbon. This is pretty much the same thing.

As for a forecast of success? Please.

[sygazelle]

Originally Posted by MalibuBimmer

I think this study is completely meaningless. How was it done?

While I like the result and the BMW brand is definitely highly regarded, I agree. The authors can make it come out any way they want.

That's how I feel when I see the next 10 best beaches survey.

[sygazelle]

Originally Posted by WW435

How about the NA numbers? How did they compare to their peers? That will provide you a better picture. And no not every auto stock struggled over the last several years.

You said BMW sales are struggling and didn't mention NA. I gave you the purest level of financial performance, revenue and profit, for the company, not the segment. I thought I was addressing your statement. Sorry.

BMW and Mercedes go back and forth in US unit sales leadership. So, pick a month. Pick a quarter. BMW had a great April and a sh*ty May. Next month, who knows?

I think they both build fine products. I rented brand new E class in Europe for a month last fall and fell in love. Great car. So this is not a BMW vs Mercedes thing for me.

BMW is being challenged and that's a good thing. My prediction is BMW will thrive under this pressure to perform. Will they come out on top? Who knows. But unless they step on their bratwurst big time, they will be just fine.

[sygazelle]

Originally Posted by WW435

How about the NA numbers? How did they compare to their peers? That will provide you a better picture. And no not every auto stock struggled over the last several years.

As a favor to the rest of the class, would you please name the car stocks that have not struggled over the past 5 years. Thanks. I'm always eager to learn something new.

[Crashnbrn5]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

This is crazy because its most likely based on stock prices, revenues, and physical assets. That being said Tesla operating at a loss to be ranked 5th, and chevy and dodge not in the top 10 shows you how overpriced and over valued and big a bubble it is. I'd run from the stock now. Its like a dot com stock in 2000.

TSLA will but 425 a share 1st before it drop 50%. 2018 they are saying 400. Maybe, but time will tell. Overvalued for sure! But the investors think that it will balance out after 5 years. Things take a lot of time.

[Powaup]

Originally Posted by Pretender

Within 3 years, Tesla will be at #4 once all model 3 are delivered.

Originally Posted by CalCarNut

Tesla's Model X is barely selling so I doubt they'll hit #4 with current offerings.

If Tesla can deliver Self-Driving within 3 years as they say they'll be #1

[Powaup]

Originally Posted by WW435

I don't believe these rankings have as much to do with stock performance as you are implying.

Yea because TESLA has a Mkt Cap of $60B (as of today), i wonder how they come up with those numbers in the OP

[insanecoder]

Flip #1 and #10 and we're good to go..

[Pretender]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Hmmm. Almost no physical assets, net losses in sales, promises that have to be met, and a stock price through the roof. P/E ratio of -75. Half a million negstive cash flow with positive cash flow only from loans and stock price increases. Where's the garbage if not tesla as an investment at this point?

Look at Amazon 20-25 years ago: same as Tesla. Tesla ain't losing money but reinvest their cash into future innovation.
The whole stock price is a bet that investors would place based on the company's ability to innovate. In this case, no doubt about Tesla's innovation: Model S was 5 years ahead anyone in this industry. Look at that. Besides, product portfolio: Tesla is not a pure Automaker company but energy company: Tesla Roof, PowerWall, Solar City remind you of anything? Make sure you never forget that.

[Pretender]

Originally Posted by CalCarNut

Tesla's Model X is barely selling so I doubt they'll hit #4 with current offerings.

Since when Model X was Bread and Butter of Tesla? It's like you say BMW X cars are their core. Nope, Tesla Model 3 is their bread and butter and with 500k+ orders to fill, I believe Tesla will dominate the car industry soon. Just fyi: Tesla S outsold Mercedes S Class in their own backyard last year.

[CalCarNut]

Originally Posted by Pretender

Since when Model X was Bread and Butter of Tesla? It's like you say BMW X cars are their core. Nope, Tesla Model 3 is their bread and butter and with 500k+ orders to fill, I believe Tesla will dominate the car industry soon. Just fyi: Tesla S outsold Mercedes S Class in their own backyard last year.

My reply was to a post that quoted current offerings (X included), which is NOT selling well, hence my reply. Model 3 is NOT their bread and butter considering that the car isn't built, not available and won't be until 2019 makes your comment speculation at best. The guesstimate is about 500K orders in..but TESLA won't confirm any numbers. TESLA even says they point prospective 3 buyers to the S and X..(X ain't selling so they're trying to upsale the consumer). Almost a bait/switch tactic. Re: BMW X models..check the sales; the 3/4 numbers are decreasing while the X models are going up. The market is completely shifting.

[AndreyATC]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

That's only a partial picture. Last quarter they lost $330 million. The only reason they were afloat was stock profits and loans. Worse than last year when they lost $674 million.
http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/tsla/fi...come-statement

Oh, Fundguy1 and Tesla
You always seem to attack the company any time you get a chance
Did you have the same approach to Amazon stock when they were losing money because of rapid growth?
No assets?
So, former large modernized Toyota plant where they are building 100K cars a year is not an asset? That same plant is expanding for 500K volume.
Is Gigafactory asset, or the largest Solar plant in Buffalo NY?
They have to invest and spend to grow and with your background you should know this.
Unless you work for oil industry and really against it

[AndreyATC]

Originally Posted by Pretender

Just fyi: Tesla S outsold Mercedes S Class in their own backyard last year.

This year, Actually it outsold S-class, 7-er, A8 and Porsche combined

https://electrek.co/2017/05/26/tesls...uxury-segment/

[Pretender]

Originally Posted by AndreyATC

This year, Actually it outsold S-class, 7-er, A8 and Porsche combined

https://electrek.co/2017/05/26/tesls...uxury-segment/

And another note:
https://www.autoevolution.com/news/t...ng-106302.html