[MSups6]

Bmw needs a sub brand, mini is not it.

Sedan's dead bla bla, 3 is still the best seller they got.

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by F80NJM3

I'm old enough to remember when these posts read "record sales blah blah".... :

What like last month or last year even? :

[BMWKLR]

Sales are down! Problem is the Dollar cost. My 2008 e92 335 cost 38,000 and the equivalent 340 now is 58,000. A condo in West Palm Beach, costs 55K. Keep raising the price and it will cost more that my house. The only other way to keep sales high is to offer a very watered down / shared platform WRONG wheel drive models like the x1 series mini cooper thing they are making now. Perpetual growth is unsustainable, like perpetual energy.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by InsideMan

You don't see the value. It's okay.

Plenty of people love their Mini. Highly profitable ?.

I think this applied to the first few generations. I drove a few of the early ones and really enjoyed them. Recent ones just aren't nearly as fun.

[tpm17]

Originally Posted by F32Fleet

They still do but people can't afford them. Buyers are tapped out. There's a reason why car loans have terms of 6 more years coupled with higher delinquencies.

Originally Posted by F32Fleet

They still do but people can't afford them. Buyers are tapped out. There's a reason why car loans have terms of 6 more years coupled with higher delinquencies.

I'm a statistic of the above. After 10 years of BMW ownership I had to tap out and move to another brand. I lease a brand new Jeep Grand Cherokee and Jeep Wrangler Unlimited for the same monthly payment of 1 BMW vehicle. I miss BMW ownership but the juice just isn't worth the squeeze anymore.

[nujabes24]

Originally Posted by Laki021

Because people come interested in 7 series and they end up buying 5 series next to it, since they are so similar. That's what my dealer told me.

BMW still makes brilliant cars, new 5 is one of the best cars on the market in any class, even Jeremy Clarkson says it's the best car in the world, but here on the forum, it's terrible, low quality, that is simply incredible, such people should not be on this forum.

Important thing is, global sales are up, European sales are up, who cares if NA sales are down due to basically higher prices compare to the previous year. They are smartly avoiding the car bubble in the US. Again funny, in the same post people complaining about high costs of new BMWs and how they have become mass producer and are lowering the quality in order to make profit. Well good news, no more cheap BMWs, they can focus on high quality again...

I love my M4 and was about to lease a 2018 since my 15 is up, but man the quality just feels like it went down hill. I went to Audi and Mercedes to check the c63amg and he RS5 and the interiors of those cars especially the leather and the feel just blew my mind. I still love BMW but they need to focus on better quality. Still feels to this day that my e92 M3 was built better and better quality than my M4. But great post btw.

[R N M]

If you have an F10 there is no point to rush and get the new G30 unless your lease is up. They barely moved the needle if at all, same goes for the 7.

New 8 series and Z4 can't come soon enough to breathe back some Life into the styling. Also once X3 hits the lots sales will start to go up again.

[135iUSN]

CPO coverage and my 2 cents::

MB is the way to go. After the 4/50 runs out you have a 12 month unlimited mile warranty as well as a 7 day exchange policy if you don't like the one you just purchased.

I just turned in my '15 i3 a few weeks ago and the dealer did nothing to keep me as a customer, well ok, I did receive the standard 'we want you in a lease flyer'

My short list is CPO GL 350 BlueTec or 550/63. I tow, so the BT would be best choice, but the driver side of mr says 63.

I'm also very loyal Land Rover owner, 4 vehicles past 8 years. The new disco has gone mainstream in the style department and too RR on the interior, for my liking as I've had 3 LR3/4s. Much like BMW LR isn't what it used to be. But in part on the good side as quality has improved. I've had no major failures with mine just unusual maintenance. Currently have 108k on the clock.

I have a 2017 Jag XE loaner currently with the 340hp supercharged engine and set to dynamic mode is blast to drive. My recent X1/3er loaners over the past 2 years were bland in comparison. The i3 was in the shop a total of 9 times in less than 2 years.

But on topic, BMW needs to shrink their fleet, get back to their roots and up the build quality.

[InsideMan]

Originally Posted by 135iUSN

CPO coverage and my 2 cents::

MB is the way to go. After the 4/50 runs out you have a 12 month unlimited mile warranty as well as a 7 day exchange policy if you don't like the one you just purchased.

I just turned in my '15 i3 a few weeks ago and the dealer did nothing to keep me as a customer, well ok, I did receive the standard 'we want you in a lease flyer'

My short list is CPO GL 350 BlueTec or 550/63. I tow, so the BT would be best choice, but the driver side of mr says 63.

I'm also very loyal Land Rover owner, 4 vehicles past 8 years. The new disco has gone mainstream in the style department and too RR on the interior, for my liking as I've had 3 LR3/4s. Much like BMW LR isn't what it used to be. But in part on the good side as quality has improved. I've had no major failures with mine just unusual maintenance. Currently have 108k on the clock.

I have a 2017 Jag XE loaner currently with the 340hp supercharged engine and set to dynamic mode is blast to drive. My recent X1/3er loaners over the past 2 years were bland in comparison. The i3 was in the shop a total of 9 times in less than 2 years.

But on topic, BMW needs to shrink their fleet, get back to their roots and up the build quality.

BMW's CPO program is unlimited miles.

Like you said, you don't like the car. Perfectly fine. BMW doesn't sell everyone a car. They lose you and gain another.

[phantom701]

I used to work for another large German company based in Munich and I can see similar errors the BMW is falling into:
1. The lack of understanding of the US market. With many car manufacturers offering many features as standard, BMW decides to charge for them. Essentially nickel and diming their customers to ridiculous prices. When I was at the other German company, they all felt very strongly that US market would love it.
2. The reduction in benefits. Once again, because they want to cut cost, they forgot why customers were going to them in the first place. The significant reduction of the European Delivery program benefits which directly affects people who would get into the car and become evangelists. Another significant reduction in the warranty program which was one of their competitive advantages.

Keep in mind, BMW didn't cut all these because they were losing money. With the US$ being stronger, they could have easily benefited from selling more cars. Instead, they become too greedy. Only stupid companies would lose sales when their home currency is weakened!!! It's truly inexplicable!!!!

Knowing the Germans, I don't think they will shift their strategy until the "something" hits the fan. Even then, it would still take a few more years.

I am thinking about leaving the BMW brand when my lease is up. I'm sad because I had been a loyal BMW owners for many years. Looks like they don't want me to be their customers anymore.

[Alpine300zhp]

Originally Posted by c63er

Bmw is just stuck in the same spiral many American car companies got into and even mercedes in the 90s. They decided to become a volume manufacturer and enjoyed the easy money of top brand in volume market. But after a while the spiral sets in where the only way to keep competitive is to lower quality/costs. Then before you know it your brand just disappeared. That's when the real pain steps in.

Believe it or not there was a time when American cars stood for quality. If you said that in the 80s, 90s or 2000s you'd be laughed at. They aren't total pos anymore but they have never really regained that reputation.

There was a time when bmw was considered a drivers car, from the x5 and 7 series down to line. Now very few people will say that. We are at the point looking down the precipice of real pain for bmw as their brand slides farther and farther away as they keep chasing easy money in China by makin essentially subpar Toyotas with a bmw logo on them.

Mercedes quickly realized their mistake and made corrections (relatively quickly in car years, like 7 years) and they are doing ok now. Still not the reputation they had in the 70s but good none the less. American cars were slower to fix their mistakes but also on a better path.

BMWs F generation has been a general abomination. With the new z4 shared platform it will make the f series bmws look like hardcore dedicated Bmws. Question is will the rest of the g series cars slide farther down or has bmw realized their mistake and will try to make a save. The new 5 series while elegant on the outside has preschool level interior displays unbecoming and befitting of a car with the heritage and positioning of the famous 5 series. More trashing of the bmw brand for an easy sale to someone in China who thinks lcd displays with color are cool.

We shall see if bmw continues down the spiral with the g series or makes a save.

This man speaks the truth....

[Laki021]

Originally Posted by nujabes24

I love my M4 and was about to lease a 2018 since my 15 is up, but man the quality just feels like it went down hill. I went to Audi and Mercedes to check the c63amg and he RS5 and the interiors of those cars especially the leather and the feel just blew my mind. I still love BMW but they need to focus on better quality. Still feels to this day that my e92 M3 was built better and better quality than my M4. But great post btw.

Really not a good moment to buy M4 or any of F30 derivatives, they are at the end of their life cycle so a major change is coming soon. It is true, the interior is outdated, but we are talking about 6-7 years old model. On the other hand A4 is brand new and C class is also much newer model.
I am 100% convinced that the new 3 series, 4, m4 etc will be a class leader as always.

The new M5 is the first M of the new generation, but even that one will not be available for another 8 months. Bottom line, this is not a good period for buying a new M car, but starting next year, the situation is going to change dramatically.

BTW the new G30 is a huge step forward, had F10, now G30, the difference is much bigger than it seems, but you need to take it for a test drive to realize that... Absolutely amazing car!

[JDMAF]

I think its the product thats the problem. Im in a $60k (which is itself part of the problem as mentioned above) 2017 340i 6spd after being away from the brand for awhile (a few subaru STi's) My last BMW was a 6 spd 2008 X3. Think about that a second - a small suv with a manual transmission. Anyone making that anymore? I think you can get a Mazda or a stripped subaru. But the X3 was a blast to drive - steering was direct not electronically massaged or translated or whatever, body control was great and it was honest and simple. And it was based on an old design of the prior 3 series (E36 I believe) which shows that BMW still had it together when it made those cars. My current F30 is so dumbed down dynamically (And it has the Msport, MPPSK, and manual tranny) even (really especially) in its most sporty settings. It just never seems to commit to being a sporty car. too muted and too soft. Its like BMW either is incapable of or unwilling to make a dedicated sport sedan that doesnt have an M on its badge. To me thats the problem

[MalibuBimmer]

Make bland cars, reap the consequences.

[BimmerMat135]

Where is Scott26? Funny he is not around when news are bad.

[Alpine300zhp]

Originally Posted by nujabes24

I love my M4 and was about to lease a 2018 since my 15 is up, but man the quality just feels like it went down hill. I went to Audi and Mercedes to check the c63amg and he RS5 and the interiors of those cars especially the leather and the feel just blew my mind. I still love BMW but they need to focus on better quality. Still feels to this day that my e92 M3 was built better and better quality than my M4. But great post btw.

Hmm. My impression is a little different. I too owned an E92 m3 coupe and I don't feel that my 15 m4 is lower in build quality. There are some things that I liked better about the E92, but I have been happy with my F82. I am thinking of getting an F80 next, but want to see the F90 before I decide.

[BMW F22]

Originally Posted by BimmerMat135

Where is Scott26? Funny he is not around when news are bad.

Maybe he's on vacation, just like BMW's US Sales numbers.

[Red Bread]

Or he's busy counting Chinese sales of GTs and long wheelbase 3ers and DGAF about our piddly little sales.

[positiveions]

Originally Posted by InsideMan

You don't see the value. It's okay.

Plenty of people love their Mini. Highly profitable ?.

I don't see the value that is why I want 3k off

[scoleda]

pichforks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Spa2k]

Or maybe the blip in overall BMW and MINI sales in August is just like what happened in the rest of the U.S. auto industry: 25% of the sales period was lost to people preparing for and suffering through Hurricane Harvey. Expect September sales to be down too, even in the face of increased incentives.

[nujabes24]

Originally Posted by Alpine300zhp

Hmm. My impression is a little different. I too owned an E92 m3 coupe and I don't feel that my 15 m4 is lower in build quality. There are some things that I liked better about the E92, but I have been happy with my F82. I am thinking of getting an F80 next, but want to see the F90 before I decide.

Awesome bro hope you enjoy the F80