[kscarrol]

Hmm... How many drink driving deaths each year in the UK? Need to get rid of those cars...

[Flyingscotsman]

Originally Posted by kscarrol

Hmm... How many drink driving deaths each year in the UK? Need to get rid of those cars...

Sadly it's too many, I haven't looked it up, but probably similar figures for drunk driving deaths as to what you have there, but.. people NEED CARS to get to work, you don't need a gun for that

[kscarrol]

Originally Posted by Flyingscotsman

Sadly it's too many, I haven't looked it up, but probably similar figures for drunk driving deaths as to what you have there, but.. people NEED CARS to get to work, you don't need a gun for that

Agreed on the need for cars but the point is the it is not the car that causes the accident, it's the stupid human behind the wheel. It is not the gun that causes the accident, it is the stupid human who doesn't properly secure the gun. Based on that logic, cars should be banned because they are used to kill people...

[infinitekidM2C]

It's one of those issues that nobody will agree on. Hope the kids pull thru /thread

[Flyingscotsman]

Originally Posted by kscarrol

Agreed on the need for cars but the point is the it is not the car that causes the accident, it's the stupid human behind the wheel. It is not the gun that causes the accident, it is the stupid human who doesn't properly secure the gun. Based on that logic, cars should be banned because they are used to kill people...

I fail to see your logic.. cars are transportation, guns are for killing or maiming.
Surely you can see that if there were less guns, there would be less gun deaths, accidental or otherwise?

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

I thought that way for a long time. I realized that if someone broke into my house and stole them, i'd be contributing to the argument of those who think we're not responsible enough to own guns.

Not actually lying around have 1 plant gun hidden. Rest are locked or on person

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by Flyingscotsman

I fail to see your logic.. cars are transportation, guns are for killing or maiming.
Surely you can see that if there were less guns, there would be less gun deaths, accidental or otherwise?

If you cut all the kids fingers off they couldn't steal your car or shoot a gun. Ban fingers! Improper use if anything can be dangerous

[TXSTYLE]

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

They should be charged with a minimum of assault with a deadly weapon for leaving the weapons accessible to anyone but himself and the adults who reside in that home.

This is serious shit and for all the people who haven't got a clue as to what the gun laws are that they shake their head to, this is what freedom looks like. However, this is also what idiocy looks like.

The fact that their aren't SERIOUS penalties for leaving your guns unlocked in some way shape or form is ridiculous. Those are the laws that need to be passed. Let you weapons fall into the hands of a criminal and get used in a crime, get charged with accessory to that crime. Let your weapons fall into the hands of a minor and become part of an "accident" where someone gets hurt, get criminally charged for the outcome. If the victim of the accident dies, get charged wth manslaughter, if they are only wounded, get charged with assault with a deadly weapon.

I'm on board for freedom of speech, freedom of religion and freedom to bear arms. But consequences follow all of those freedoms. You may not get thrown in jail for spouting some degrading garbage on a social media account, but your company may fire you over it. You're free to practice the religion of your choosing, but you might be surprised that even though your religion allows you to lock up your wife in the basement for a week that you'll likely be arrested for it. And the freedom to bear arms doesn't come without great responsibly and damn it, there is a way to make people be responsible without stupid laws of keeping ammo in one room, guns in another or keeping both at a designated location.

In my opinion, VERY stiff penalties for negligence needs to be instituted and NO PLEA deals allowed for these cases!

I can get behind all of that.

[TXSTYLE]

Originally Posted by Flyingscotsman

Jeez.. that's awful.. you guys in the US really need to get over "it's in the constitution " crap and try to find some way to get rid of all these guns.
More guns = more deaths
Less guns = less deaths
It's not rocket science.
I know it won't be easy, but something needs to be done

Absolutely!

[Flyingscotsman]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

If you cut all the kids fingers off they couldn't steal your car or shoot a gun. Ban fingers! Improper use if anything can be dangerous

What an idiotic argument.
Fingers are not designed to hurt/kill, whereas guns are.
As I said in previous post, I know it won't be easy, but something should be done.
I know that over there guns are EVERYWHERE but there needs to be something done to reduce the number.
What will it take? I don't know, it seems to me that shootings are so commonplace that the general public (if unaffected by the particular incident) seem not to care enough to do anything about it.
There have been way way too many needless unnecessary deaths due to firearms for my liking, maybe you don't care either?

[kscarrol]

Originally Posted by Flyingscotsman

I fail to see your logic.. cars are transportation, guns are for killing or maiming.
Surely you can see that if there were less guns, there would be less gun deaths, accidental or otherwise?

Yes, but my point is it is not the instrument that causes the problem, it is the person. If there were fewer cars there would be fewer drink driving deaths, or any accidental car deaths. But we are willing to accept thousands of drink driving/accident deaths every year in the name of transportation.

Is transportation needed, yes. Are guns truly needed other than for hunting etc, no. But it is our right here in the US and again, it is not the gun which is the issue, it is the human using it just as it is the human using the car to kill people.

If we really wanted to reduce drink driving deaths there are measures we should take. So let's start putting breathalyzers on every vehicle so that only sober people can drive them. Or ban cars after 8 PM when the likelihood of drinking and driving increases dramatically. I could keep going, limiting the use of cars all in the name of reducing drink driving deaths. Where does it stop? All in the name of reducing deaths.

[kscarrol]

Originally Posted by TXSTYLE

Absolutely!

So I expect you'll be turning in your guns to the local police department tomorrow?

[BOOF-M3]

Originally Posted by Flyingscotsman

What an idiotic argument.
Fingers are not designed to hurt/kill, whereas guns are.
As I said in previous post, I know it won't be easy, but something should be done.
I know that over there guns are EVERYWHERE but there needs to be something done to reduce the number.
What will it take? I don't know, it seems to me that shootings are so commonplace that the general public (if unaffected by the particular incident) seem not to care enough to do anything about it.
There have been way way too many needless unnecessary deaths due to firearms for my liking, maybe you don't care either?

Too many deaths for anyone to like Scotsman, but unfortunately the only answer is banning all guns. Never going to happen. If there was a better answer it would have shown its face in this thread. I have yet to read it. Beside banning guns what is the answer?

[TomHudson]

Originally Posted by davis449

I'll be the first to say it, people like you rarely research facts before making blanket statements\claims like yours:

2014 CDC Sourced Data:

All injury deaths
Number of deaths: 199,752
Deaths per 100,000 population: 62.6

All poisoning deaths
Number of deaths: 51,966
Deaths per 100,000 population: 16.3

Motor vehicle traffic deaths
Number of deaths: 33,736
Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.6

All firearm deaths
Number of deaths: 33,594
Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.5

All unintentional injury deaths
Number of deaths: 135,928
Deaths per 100,000 population: 42.6

Cause of death rank: 4
Unintentional fall deaths
Number of deaths: 31,959
Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.0

Motor vehicle traffic deaths
Number of deaths: 33,736
Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.6

Unintentional poisoning deaths
Number of deaths: 42,032
Deaths per 100,000 population: 13.2

Childrens Hospital of Philadelphia Research:

There are more than 350 million guns in circulation in the United States — approximately 113 guns for every 100 people.

1.7 million children live with unlocked, loaded guns - 1 out of 3 homes with kids have guns.

In 2014, 2,549 children (age 0 to 19 years) died by gunshot and an additional 13,576 were injured.

There are ~74 Million children ages 0-17 in the United States.

Do the math, irresponsible people are just that...

Yup, it's ok for children to be shot at daycare; it falls within the expected statistics.

[BOOF-M3]

Ouch Tom. Not my fight here but, that's probably a little harsh to think that another member would feel that way. I don't see where it gets the conversation to a place that people can see each other's views.

[rlmesq]

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

The fact that their aren't SERIOUS penalties for leaving your guns unlocked in some way shape or form is ridiculous. Those are the laws that need to be passed. Let you weapons fall into the hands of a criminal and get used in a crime, get charged with accessory to that crime. Let your weapons fall into the hands of a minor and become part of an "accident" where someone gets hurt, get criminally charged for the outcome. If the victim of the accident dies, get charged wth manslaughter, if they are only wounded, get charged with assault with a deadly weapon.

California does have gun storage laws. If a person keeps a loaded gun in the home where a child (or convicted felon) lives, and the kid (or convicted felon) can gain access, it's a crime. In this situation, where the child causes serious injury, it's a felony.

Originally Posted by BimmerAg

I can agree with competency tests, similar to those required for a concealed carry license. I think annual re-certification might be a bit much, but otherwise is probably a good idea. The only argument I would have against it is that it could be discriminatory towards poor people due to the cost. Hell, it was only recently that Texas reduced the price of a CHl license that used to cost over $200 + the cost of the course!

There's no point in taking a CCW class in most of California because you can't get a license in most counties. In San Francisco, with a population of about three quarters of a million concentrated in 49 square miles, there were TWO -- count 'em, TWO -- active CCW licenses in the last year for which statistics were available.

The rural county north of Sacramento where I live is 32 times the size (1,677 square miles), less than a third of the population, and the local sheriff has issued several thousand CCW licenses. His attitude is that any honest, law abiding, mentally stable resident should be able to get one.

[HXS]

Originally Posted by Flyingscotsman

Jeez.. that's awful.. you guys in the US really need to get over "it's in the constitution " crap and try to find some way to get rid of all these guns.
More guns = more deaths
Less guns = less deaths
It's not rocket science.
I know it won't be easy, but something needs to be done

Agree.

Why do you think overseas terrorism involves almost any weapon BUT guns? Because overseas, they are so strict on guns! Even terrorists can't get their hands on them. They have to resort to knives and bombs and cars/trucks.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by davis449

I'll be the first to say it, people like you rarely research facts before making blanket statements\claims like yours:

2014 CDC Sourced Data:

All injury deaths
Number of deaths: 199,752
Deaths per 100,000 population: 62.6

All poisoning deaths
Number of deaths: 51,966
Deaths per 100,000 population: 16.3

Motor vehicle traffic deaths
Number of deaths: 33,736
Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.6

All firearm deaths
Number of deaths: 33,594
Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.5

All unintentional injury deaths
Number of deaths: 135,928
Deaths per 100,000 population: 42.6

Cause of death rank: 4
Unintentional fall deaths
Number of deaths: 31,959
Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.0

Motor vehicle traffic deaths
Number of deaths: 33,736
Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.6

Unintentional poisoning deaths
Number of deaths: 42,032
Deaths per 100,000 population: 13.2

Childrens Hospital of Philadelphia Research:

There are more than 350 million guns in circulation in the United States — approximately 113 guns for every 100 people.

1.7 million children live with unlocked, loaded guns - 1 out of 3 homes with kids have guns.

In 2014, 2,549 children (age 0 to 19 years) died by gunshot and an additional 13,576 were injured.

There are ~74 Million children ages 0-17 in the United States.

Do the math, irresponsible people are just that...

Yup. There are tragedies but this was stupid parenting.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by HXS

Agree.

Why do you think overseas terrorism involves almost any weapon BUT guns? Because overseas, they are so strict on guns! Even terrorists can't get their hands on them. They have to resort to knives and bombs and cars/trucks.

Um no. I think the terrorists in Paris used, wait for it, AK47s? Multiple times? How about the 2 million crimes foiled annually by legal gun owners. How many innocent lives did those instances save. Confiscating guns in Austrailia, what happened? More gun violence. Number one murder weapon in England is now kitchen knives. The Brits contemplated confiscating those too. What's next, hammers? Typical ignorant argument.

[Flyingscotsman]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Yup. There are tragedies but this was stupid parenting.

Unfortunately you can't regulate against stupidity.

If the guns weren't there in the first place, the kids couldn't accidentally shoot themselves or someone else, no matter how stupid the parents.

[Flyingscotsman]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Um no. I think the terrorists in Paris used, wait for it, AK47s? Multiple times? How about the 2 million crimes foiled annually by legal gun owners. How many innocent lives did those instances save. Confiscating guns in Austrailia, what happened? More gun violence. Number one murder weapon in England is now kitchen knives. The Brits contemplated confiscating those too. What's next, hammers? Typical ignorant argument.

The number one murder weapon may well be knives, but they are a tool, as is a hammer.. they have a different primary use. Your argument to ban anything that can be used as a weapon is ridiculous.

In the recent terror attack in London, the terrorists used a vehicle and knives to to inflict the damage on these unfortunate innocent individuals because they couldn't get guns. I hate to think how many more fatalities there would have been if they had guns.

[seedyrom]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Confiscating guns in Austrailia, what happened? More gun violence.