[Lups]

Originally Posted by rcracin

I respectfully disagree. Do you teach your kids to stick up for ppl who shit on them just because those people are now at a disadvantage? What does that say about your self respect and pride? Sure, kids dont get that. As an adult, i’m more upset that my parents were there for my terrible grandparents. The icing on the cake was caring for them in their old age through surgeries and then getting fucked in the inheritance like we always knew we would.

I practice what i preach. Treat me good and i’ll treat you good. Shit on me and i’ll live my life as if you don’t exist.

I see your point, but my self respect is fine. The kids are well aware of my feelings about my mother too, yet they know I'd do the same to anyone else too, I must.

I might not be trying to slither to heaven, but I truly believe not leaving a person behind. In the end, I'll be living with myself, reflecting on my worth as a human in a rocking chair. I want to be able to feel like I kept my promise to my dad and kept an eye on my mother.

Originally Posted by Joekerr

Lups I've not responded to this thread yet, but I have read it several times.

I think what you are doing about documenting everything is wise, and you should continue to do so. Including the wider family in what is happening will only help, as it shows you are being transparent. Don't be afraid to ask for help. If it is refused, then so be it. But how many have you helped? How many have asked you for help? Does it not stand to reason then that if you want others to ask for help (and you do not look down on them for doing so), that you too should not be afraid to ask for help? Frankly, by doing so, it also shows that you are being open to family and not trying to secret your mother away...it shows them what you are dealing with and they will be on your side if anything acrimonious happens later between your brother and you. Though I'm not sure that's what you are worried about...I suspect this goes back to the root of your care for your father and your decision there, which you were roundly criticized for. Unfairly as well, I might add. I don't think this is going to go the same way, but, if you think so, ask and keep asking your family to get involved, so they can't say anything if they don't...if you withdraw care at a later stage.

Family is awesome and they are tough. We have a rift in my extended family on both my Dad and Mom's side...sucks, but it is. I doubt it will heal. Much like you doubt your relationship with your Mom will heal. Do you think in her current state she is open to communicating again about some of the pain you've felt in the past as a kid? It honestly might be good for both of you. I think sometimes in the later stages of life, hard people change and they soften, and they talk more. I saw that with my papa (grandfather), he was a hard man, scrappy, had a miserable childhood in Scotland and it really affected who he was. But in his latter part of life, before he died, the changes were remarkable. And his willingness to talk and share was a good thing. But you'd have never got that out of him until he had his stroke and knew he was pretty much a goner.

Lean on people when you need them. And good for you for doing this!

I'm running a weirdo daycare here now for sure. I told the kids go and trash my storage yesterday just so I have something to do with my mom and also to see how well she could manage the project. It went down badly but if you ever see a full row of paired shoes in a 70m² storage with a disaster surround them, that's what I observed being done today.

I like the idea of talking about the hard shit, of course I do, but this isnt about me. She needs help and i need to accept the role of a stern teacher here. My feelings now don't matter and if she wants to talk about the past, I won't stop her but there is nothing to gain in bring it up. I doubt I can handle her vision of our history and her in my face this much and do remember, I've killed before.

[//Melon]

My girlfriend and I both lost our aging mothers about two years apart.

For my next statement to have any merit, let's get some context, I've overcome opiate addiction and rebuilt my house after a flood, and taking care of your parent at end of life is one of the toughest things you can do.

My girlfriend had it, not easy, but different, than myself, her mother was a lovely woman, who's heart was giving out. My mother was a very vile woman, who's presence wore me out like a plant worker at Chernobyl. I had to limit my exposure.

My brother pretty much wrote her off back in 2005 or so, and hadn't seen her since, so it was up to me. And my fucking god, the guilt was insurmountable. I felt that I needed to take care of her. They take care of us when we're young, we do so when we're adults, that's the deal right? Well, as it turns out no.

The issues between us got so bad, I ended up seeing a therapist, and actually cut my mother out of my life entirely. She passed away about six months later, and while it may sound insanely cruel it was what I had to do. Now, I didn't just abandon her to her fate, she was a woman of means, and afforded 24 hour sitters in her final days, all medical needs were met.

She passed away Jul 5th, 2017 at the age of 64.

To my brother and I, it was a relief, she had been living with chronic liver failure for 35 years (Even though she never took a drink, but smoked a pack a day) I have no regrets, no lingering sadness over how I handled the situation. I don't feel I was "punishing" her by being absent, I was doing what I had to do to survive.

My only wish is that things had been different.

It's tough, it really is, and it's an experience that will forever change you.
I'm not sure if there's anything helpful in there, but you have my condolences.

I wish you the very best of luck.

[Joekerr]

Originally Posted by Lups

I like the idea of talking about the hard shit, of course I do, but this isnt about me. She needs help and i need to accept the role of a stern teacher here. My feelings now don't matter and if she wants to talk about the past, I won't stop her but there is nothing to gain to bring it up. I doubt I can handle her vision of our history and her in my face this much and do remember, I've killed before.

It's not...not about you either. Its a relationship and there are two sides.

As you know, I know very little about your relationship aside from the very few things you've mentioned. I understand it isn't good. But you say that it's almost like she's given up / lost her soul, more than depression...something like that, I can't remember the exact words. But what if she feels like she can't talk about the past now, after so many years. After what has been said, and what hasn't been said. What if that's part of what's causing her to feel broken, but she doesn't know how to bring it up / fix it?

I'm not saying it is, I have no idea. I don't really know you, and I certainly don't know your mother or her personality / character type. Just saying...what if it were?

Yes, her recount of history will likely not be pleasant. Is she the type that now, the way she is now, would listen to your recount and consider whether there is truth there? Will you do the same to her for her version? Maybe there is some common ground that you can find to work with. Sure, it might not be repaired by the time she dies, but it might be better than what it was. Would you regret not taking the opportunity when you no longer have it?

Your Dad presumably saw something in her of value and worth? Surely there is something there.

[Lups]

Originally Posted by Joekerr

It's not...not about you either. Its a relationship and there are two sides.

As you know, I know very little about your relationship aside from the very few things you've mentioned. I understand it isn't good. But you say that it's almost like she's given up / lost her soul, more than depression...something like that, I can't remember the exact words. But what if she feels like she can't talk about the past now, after so many years. After what has been said, and what hasn't been said. What if that's part of what's causing her to feel broken, but she doesn't know how to bring it up / fix it?

I'm not saying it is, I have no idea. I don't really know you, and I certainly don't know your mother or her personality / character type. Just saying...what if it were?

Yes, her recount of history will likely not be pleasant. Is she the type that now, the way she is now, would listen to your recount and consider whether there is truth there? Will you do the same to her for her version? Maybe there is some common ground that you can find to work with. Sure, it might not be repaired by the time she dies, but it might be better than what it was. Would you regret not taking the opportunity when you no longer have it?

Your Dad presumably saw something in her of value and worth? Surely there is something there.

Dude, I got the parking tickets still all stashed.

And no, I doubt I'd regret letting this opportunity to go through the history, I however would be very mad at myself if I spent my time now crushing her. She talks about dad and shit and I'm okay with it. I talk about my dad to the kids a lot and she sees the skills learned from him being transferred to the next generation.

And as much as this is not... not about me, the thing is that all I have to do is to set aside my hatred towards her and attend to her like I would towards anyone else. In a way, I'd say that's me being about me.

As for what my father thought, I think I knew him well enough to know he liked growing potatoes on his free time and reading and us kids. I don't think he actually gave a fuck about anything besides those before I had kids. Then even potatoes became a second thought.

[Joekerr]

Originally Posted by Lups

Dude, I got the parking tickets still all stashed.

And no, I doubt I'd regret letting this opportunity to go through the history, I however would be very mad at myself if I spent my time now crushing her. She talks about dad and shit and I'm okay with it. I talk about my dad to the kids a lot and she sees the skills learned from him being transferred to the next generation.

That's fair. I think you understand the point I'm trying to drive home is "what if what's crushing her is your relationship (lack thereof) and not knowing how to talk about it / work on it" rather than suggesting that talking about it would crush her. If you think it would, don't. You know best. I'm just providing an outside view, with not really any data to go on, so its not an overly worthwhile view to be honest.

Originally Posted by Lups

And as much as this is not... not about me, the thing is that all I have to do is to set aside my hatred towards her and attend to her like I would towards anyone else. In a way, I'd say that's me being about me.

That's a good point. I never thought about it that way, but I like the way you see it.

[Lups]

Originally Posted by Joekerr

That's fair. I think you understand the point I'm trying to drive home is "what if what's crushing her is your relationship (lack thereof) and not knowing how to talk about it / work on it" rather than suggesting that talking about it would crush her. If you think it would, don't. You know best. I'm just providing an outside view, with not really any data to go on, so its not an overly worthwhile view to be honest.



That's a good point. I never thought about it that way, but I like the way you see it.

I'd truly agree with you but unlike her, you know how badly I got hurt in it all. She has no idea I wake up crying after an hour of sleep if I even talk to her (explains why I'm this tired after a month of constant contact). The woman has no idea how her actions and words hurt me.

The best case scenario in this is that she is depressed and her nutrition has to be fixed, i hand her over to professionals and enjoy my life again. The worst case is that I'm right and she is having serious issues and she'll be moving in with me.

I liked my life without her better.

[//Melon]

Originally Posted by Lups

I liked my life without her better.

And I like my life better without my mother as well.

[Lups]

Apparently my mother is all fine. The blood test results came back, and she has enough iron, all other also were decent.

So the option one for me is to keep on insisting she is not well and be in her company as much as I am now and get her evaluated by a mental health professional.

Option two is to walk away.

Option three is a softie and it means she can spend time with us all. This option is a bit limited by the kids and the hubby since they all agree on the option two. I agree with them also.

And no, she did not see a doctor.

[Vista]

Dear Lups!

I am very touched by your story and I hope everything will be fine with your mom.
Unfortunately, behind the hustle and bustle of this world, we forget about the true values: parents, children, live communication.

[stevenopoly]

Honestly it kinda sounds like she has some form of alzheimer's disease. My mom passed a couple years ago from it and she had very similar symptoms.

Very difficult disease and is not curable. Hopefully I'm wrong.

[Lups]

I feel like updating this.

I've turned into a complete bitch. I just came from a walk with my friend and the fucker said I'm mean. Fuck, I am these days nice like a viper.

Her mental state improved a ton when my brother started to need her again and for a few days it seemed like I got rid of her. Just my luck, no, she still fucking is here all the fucking time.

We play board games with the kids in the evenings cuz it's a fun way to spend time with the little dorks. I usually cook lunch too with a kid or two cuz that's a good time to have a chat about anything with a kid. Now I'm at the same time spending time with my fucking mother and I've gone nuts.

Fucking fuck she is always at my house. She doesn't in my view seem normal so I can't kick her out. she sits next to me and complains that the coffee we drink is too strong. She is here basically 15 hours per day.

I think the oldest of our kids has moved to the library. I'm thinking of doing the same because being home has never been this horrible. For fucks sake, my mother is trying to teach me swedish, a language I used to speak fluently and now I hate it with passion.

Aaaaaaaanyway... if I'm bitchy towards you, know that you're not alone. Fucking fuck she decided we are her covid bubble and therefore annoying me to death is okay.

Merry fucking Christmas to everyone. I'm going to spend mine hiding from my mother in the garage.

[Daftasabrush]

Parts of this thread reminded me of this great video by a Scottish engineer I watch on youtube, his mother suffered with Alzheimer's and he talks some great sense about it:

[fiveohwblow]

Originally Posted by Lups

I feel like updating this.

I've turned into a complete bitch. I just came from a walk with my friend and the fucker said I'm mean. Fuck, I am these days nice like a viper.

Her mental state improved a ton when my brother started to need her again and for a few days it seemed like I got rid of her. Just my luck, no, she still fucking is here all the fucking time.

We play board games with the kids in the evenings cuz it's a fun way to spend time with the little dorks. I usually cook lunch too with a kid or two cuz that's a good time to have a chat about anything with a kid. Now I'm at the same time spending time with my fucking mother and I've gone nuts.

Fucking fuck she is always at my house. She doesn't in my view seem normal so I can't kick her out. she sits next to me and complains that the coffee we drink is too strong. She is here basically 15 hours per day.

I think the oldest of our kids has moved to the library. I'm thinking of doing the same because being home has never been this horrible. For fucks sake, my mother is trying to teach me swedish, a language I used to speak fluently and now I hate it with passion.

Aaaaaaaanyway... if I'm bitchy towards you, know that you're not alone. Fucking fuck she decided we are her covid bubble and therefore annoying me to death is okay.

Merry fucking Christmas to everyone. I'm going to spend mine hiding from my mother in the garage.

I am VERY sorry to hear this Lups, I am. In a strange about face, my mother and father have reunited under the banner of "without me" forcing my father to speak to me very little and in secret.

The other side, unexpected, my father in law passed three weeks ago from his ailing lung issues, he was 62 years young. We didn't have an autopsy because it truly doesn't matter to us (COVID or Pneumonia), but, he had pneumonia last year and had a sweeping degradation in his ability to saturate oxygen. Promised us he would go to the doc the next day but was hesitating due to no insurance. Our system in the US is truly screwed up and it cost us dearly. To boot, he requested no funeral but the family insisted on a graveside memorial to which I, as I often do, got elected to lead it. Been a hell of a year this 2020.

Continue as you must, but please do not give up as the futility of that which dooms us all is once again relevant to me with a newfound sting. Haven't seen my wife hurt so much and its unbearable.

[3.0L]

Well, I'm the old folks part of the equation. My folks and my wife's folks are gone, so tag, we're it.

My wife and I are in our early '70's and retired. We're in relatively good health, have a decently funded retirement, house is paid for, good health insurance.

Having said that, it comes down to this: health is everything. And, we have to act our age. I no longer go more than 2 steps up a ladder. I hired a grounds keeper 5 years ago to take care of our fairly large yard, etc. I did this after a close friend slipped off a ladder while washing his travel trailer. To make a long story short, he eventually suffered a stroke while recovering from his injuries and is now confined to a wheel chair - can't walk, can't talk. Terribly sad.

I still drive, but my wife voluntarily gave up driving recently. I manage virtually everything around here including our budget, doctor appointments, car maintenance, home repairs, etc. The point is, if and when I start slipping, my nearby daughter will have to manage our lives. Not a pleasant thought and that is what inspires me to not do something stupid and end up putting a burden on her.

[pennsiveguy]

I'm counting my blessings, reading all the posts in this thread. My amazing, ageless 81-year old mother is in fantastic health. Still walks 40-50,000 steps per week, even in the cold winter in the Upper Midwest. Doesn't take any medication of any kind, other than a twice-a-year shot for osteoporosis and a half-bottle of wine daily. She's still mentally perfectly sharp, and will easily own your ass in a debate if you don't have facts to back up your assertions. She has a very active (virtual these days) social life, mostly with friends who are 20-30 years younger than she is. She only rarely needs help from me - mainly things like the other day when I hauled her Christmas tree down out of the attic for her. We're fairly close, though like all mothers she would prefer to hear from me more often.

One day her decline will begin, and I'll appreciate the support of this forum. Wishing peace, grace, and courage to those less fortunate here.