[ntg44]

Originally Posted by Run Silent

I should have been more clear in that the rear overhang is really what looks so silly. Porsche gets a pass since the engine is back there. The Elantra just looks out of proportion. None of the other supercars have this issue, so not sure what you are on about?

Look at the rear overhang below. Also - the approach angle on the rear of the Elantra is absurd. This isn't some offroad 4x4, good grief.

First off, I'll start by saying I'm a big fan of your posts before the politics ban You are a major reason why I miss it.

In regards to the cars: The Elantra is an economy car, so a big trunk is what customers want. Extending the wheelbase would put the wheel wells in the trunk, cutting into the volume. I'm sure this segment is super competitive in this regard, and is a numbers game. Almost all econoboxes today look weird until you get into the luxury segment because it's a different game with different objectives in my opinion. My STI has loads more room everywhere than my S4 or M3 ever did, and even had a larger trunk than the A8L I once had as a loaner. It also looks the goofiest and least attractive objectively speaking. Have you seen the new Civic's proportions? Yuck.

Supercars don't have this objective to meet, and designers have the freedom and budget to do almost anything. And as for the 911 getting a pass, in my opinion the rear shouldn't get a pass any more than a front engine FWD car should. I get why it's there and that it's at a better place on the car than an econobox, but it still should be held to the same standards in my opinion. It's still an overhang, and the front overhang is nearly as bad as many FWD econoboxes, and many people seem to gloss over it because it's a Porsche.

But to me the overhang isn't the point. It's whether the design flows and looks good or doesn't. Many great looking desirable cars have large overhangs, including my Gen 1 R8. Doesn't bother me in the slightest. Looks like they tucked it in a bit for the Gen 2, but to me the first generation is much better looking, not even close.

I feel like this is something we all already know though, but I still felt the need to point it out. I don't think anyone here reasonably expects an econobox to be designed with the same desirable design characteristics a supercar haha.

[blackbird_f32]

I'm sorry but a 280 crank horsepower Hyundai Elantra is hardly a sports car lol

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Run Silent

I should have been more clear in that the rear overhang is really what looks so silly. Porsche gets a pass since the engine is back there. The Elantra just looks out of proportion. None of the other supercars have this issue, so not sure what you are on about?

Look at the rear overhang below. Also - the approach angle on the rear of the Elantra is absurd. This isn't some offroad 4x4, good grief.

You have to have rear overhang to have a trunk. Especially with the modern cab-rearward designs (that look faster).

[RM7]

Originally Posted by blackbird_f32

I'm sorry but a 280 crank horsepower Hyundai Elantra is hardly a sports car lol

Not about the power numbers, but the entire package, like wet DCT (as opposed to their dry DCT in other cars). Sounds like they’ve done after the entire package with the design. The dynamics of my EGTN-line were great. The tech was awesome.

[ShocknAwe]

Good to go. Now on with a performance RWD sedan and coupe built on the stinger please.

[swagon]

That thing is ugly as hell.

[Run Silent]

Originally Posted by ntg44

First off, I'll start by saying I'm a big fan of your posts before the politics ban You are a major reason why I miss it.

In regards to the cars: The Elantra is an economy car, so a big trunk is what customers want. Extending the wheelbase would put the wheel wells in the trunk, cutting into the volume. I'm sure this segment is super competitive in this regard, and is a numbers game. Almost all econoboxes today look weird until you get into the luxury segment because it's a different game with different objectives in my opinion. My STI has loads more room everywhere than my S4 or M3 ever did, and even had a larger trunk than the A8L I once had as a loaner. It also looks the goofiest and least attractive objectively speaking. Have you seen the new Civic's proportions? Yuck.

Supercars don't have this objective to meet, and designers have the freedom and budget to do almost anything. And as for the 911 getting a pass, in my opinion the rear shouldn't get a pass any more than a front engine FWD car should. I get why it's there and that it's at a better place on the car than an econobox, but it still should be held to the same standards in my opinion. It's still an overhang, and the front overhang is nearly as bad as many FWD econoboxes, and many people seem to gloss over it because it's a Porsche.

But to me the overhang isn't the point. It's whether the design flows and looks good or doesn't. Many great looking desirable cars have large overhangs, including my Gen 1 R8. Doesn't bother me in the slightest. Looks like they tucked it in a bit for the Gen 2, but to me the first generation is much better looking, not even close.

I feel like this is something we all already know though, but I still felt the need to point it out. I don't think anyone here reasonably expects an econobox to be designed with the same desirable design characteristics a supercar haha.

I can't argue with any of your points - they are all solid and well laid out.

That being said, however, I think it looks terrible. I also think the current Honda Accord looks terrible. There are many cars these days that just don't seem to be attractive to my eyes. This isn't the case for everything new, though - I think the new Audi A3 and A5 look great, if a bit boring. The new BMW 2 series 4 door models look horrific. Heck - I actually really like the looks of both the new Chevy Blazer and the new Toyota Rav-4, even though I wouldn't drive one of them.

Guess that's why my daily drivers are an i8 and an Alfa Giulia, right?

lol.

[stein_325i]

[RM7]

Originally Posted by ShocknAwe

Good to go. Now on with a performance RWD sedan and coupe built on the stinger please.

What is a performance RWD sedan built on the stinger? A stinger?

[Mingwan]

Commercial was cool, and I don’t think the car looks that bad…. Thought the commercial was better than the one for the launch of the M3/4 which seemed to be geared towards hipster fashion snobs.

[LaVitaEBella]

I don't know if I like it or not, since I am a BMW fan. It looks pretty cool but I don't see it as a sports car.

[jmack]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

What is a performance RWD sedan built on the stinger? A stinger?

I'd like to see a 450hp+ Stinger GT-N to go against the RS5 Sportback and M3.

[TheWatchGuy]

Originally Posted by jmack

I'd like to see a 450hp+ Stinger GT-N to go against the RS5 Sportback and M3.

been waiting for kia/genesis to put out a higher tuned version of their twin turbo v6s, but i think they are pretty comfortable with where they are at performance wise and warranty wise. I imagine they keep things pretty detuned due to the 10yr warranty and if they were to give a high output version, i wonder if they would reduce the warranty. And if they did that, I'm not sure if it would sell.

fwiw, a $500 tune for the stinger will give you a significant power boost. (400ish WHP ~70whp over stock)

[ShocknAwe]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

What is a performance RWD sedan built on the stinger? A stinger?

Stinger is roughly equivalent to a 330/340 last i drove one. I'd call it a good drivers car but not particularly high performance.

[Vivek.]

Originally Posted by fiveohwblow

That front end is big yuck.

Matches the rest of it, though

[c1pher]

The interior doesn’t look too bad, but I am not interested in the exterior styling. It has too much going and none of it looks like form following function.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by ShocknAwe

Stinger is roughly equivalent to a 330/340 last i drove one. I'd call it a good drivers car but not particularly high performance.

Well, the criteria was "a performance sedan". I think for 98% of drivers, the performance available from something engineered with great dynamics and with ~370hp IS a "performance sedan". There can always be a "harder" version, M4, CS, GTS, etc., but where does it stop? Which one is the "performance" version? I can buy that maybe you'd go for an even higher performance version, but the Stinger IS a performance sedan, as much as the S4/S5 and 340/440 are. It may not be a perfect matchup, but that's the competition and where it generally is. If you start moving to a bigger heavier chassis like a 5 series, then a 540 Z(with the same engine) starts to get to be much "softer", but even that isn't a total dog.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by jmack

I'd like to see a 450hp+ Stinger GT-N to go against the RS5 Sportback and M3.

Not sure what they would call it, "N" belongs to Hyundai, not Kia though. GT3? GT-R? Not sure. I agree with the above that Kia is pretty happy where they are at, they are stretching to deliver more value per dollar and that stretches margins thin, I doubt they are going to go all out into a higher performance trim at this time, but who knows? The idea is to offer what the S4/5 and 340/440 do at a cheaper pricepoint (which can be eroded by greedy dealers ADMs). The stinger *was* possibly on the chopping block and more than one automotive journalist was surprised that they are keeping it going. If they really want to have the image of higher performance, quality and luxury, they kind of have to IMO, even though they are doing the luxury SUV thing too.

I jst returned a 6" ladder to my friend in mine, the cargo capacity is ridiculous.

The i30N has always been ridiculously good, the Veloster N is not bad, but the i30 has always been the flagship for their hot hatch and now they are extending N to more US models (finally), which is good. N is more than just a decent engine tune, it's usually ground-up for performance, like the i30 having a (removable) brace in the back hatch area that the Elantra GT N-line didn't get, along with pretty much every other part that is unique to the i30N.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

NThe stinger *was* possibly on the chopping block and more than one automotive journalist was surprised that they are keeping it going.

Well, evidently not now. It is no more after Q2 2022, 2 years before they planned to stop production. Early end.

[psuibmw]

The main problem here is the name … they should have changed it totally and not call it Elantra … maybe not call it Hyundai

[nick3753]

Originally Posted by jmack

I'd like to see a 450hp+ Stinger GT-N to go against the RS5 Sportback and M3.

If this were 7 years ago that may have happened (although it would almost certainly be a Genesis, not Kia or Hyundai). With the push for electrification it seems unlikely that they would develop a new ICE engine to compete in that class. Hopefully I am wrong as I would love to see a G70 N (or whatever badge Genesis would use)

[hellrotm]

Yeah, this thing is just not attractive.