[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Tommy-G

Is it illegal to jamb Lidar/radar in California? What is the citation or fine approx?

Jammers are illegal here. I'm not sure the exact amount of the fine for a violation of 28150 CVC, but it's only an infraction unless you have 4 or more jammers in your possession. I would guess the fine is $200 or less. I've never written a citation for it, thus, never gone to traffic court to see what the judge assessed.

[Maestro]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Maestro brings up a good point about jammers. My LIDAR gun will tell me if I'm being jammed, and if that's the case the motorist using the jammer is definitely getting pulled over.

P.S. I am also certified in my state to visually estimate speed, so I don't even need to use anything to write the citation. In California, we have to be able to visually estimate speed +/- 5mph to use radar/LIDAR. During certification we have to achieve something like 85-90% accuracy.

Use to live in CA, and have to agree the CHP are much more disciplined. I know you have to be able to visually estimated and over time people can get good at it. It is not foul proof. I have seen and read when people fought their tickets and officer had to fall back on the visual estimate. The person would request judge to allow them to prove the officer could not actually estimate. Most time the officer does fail to estimate since the estimate relays on a frame of reference usually other moving traffic. Therefore you can set up scenarios which makes it hard to estimate. It far worse when the office is not stationary or at an odd angel to motion such as if they are also moving. People can not deal with relativity (two things moving in relationship to one another) estimate go all over the place.

[Tommy-G]

Up North (NJ/PA/NY) speed traps were everywhere. Down here in Florida, if you're not speeding you're getting blown off the road and I don't think I have a speed trap in 6 years.

It would be interesting to see the number of citations written state by state or even here as the population has taken off

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Maestro

Use to live in CA, and have to agree the CHP are much more disciplined. I know you have to be able to visually estimated and over time people can get good at it. It is not foul proof. I have seen and read when people fought their tickets and officer had to fall back on the visual estimate. The person would request judge to allow them to prove the officer could not actually estimate. Most time the officer does fail to estimate since the estimate relays on a frame of reference usually other moving traffic. Therefore you can set up scenarios which makes it hard to estimate. It far worse when the office is not stationary or at an odd angel to motion such as if they are also moving. People can not deal with relativity (two things moving in relationship to one another) estimate go all over the place.

If we are moving, that's pacing, not estimation. If I'm shooting LIDAR I am stationary. If I am visually estimating I am stationary and I'm using a fixed object or series of objects to estimate speed (…e.g….a light pole, traffic sign, etc.). I will also use myself as a reference point and estimate speed based on how fast the vehicle is approaching me. My eyes know what 35mph, 45mpg, 55mph, 65mph, etc. look like in terms of vehicle speed.

Most people visually estimate speed on a daily basis. When we are crossing the street and look at oncoming cars, we are doing the calculation in our heads without even realizing it. You know when a vehicle is traveling too fast to safely make it across the street.

[Maestro]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Jammers are illegal here. I'm not sure the exact amount of the fine for a violation of 28150 CVC, but it's only an infraction unless you have 4 or more jammers in your possession. I would guess the fine is $200 or less. I've never written a citation for it, thus, never gone to traffic court to see what the judge assessed.

It is a $10,000 federal fine for operating a frequency jamming or interference devise. I personally never heard of anyone getting reported to the FCC and being fine but it is out there if a judge wants to make an example of you.

I know there are some Jammer which interface to the ODB port on the car and you can have it automatically turn off once the car speed drops to a certain speed limit. The best one only turns on once it receive a LIDAR signal. If the Officer has a feature which allows a quick burst you will be too late to jam it, but the reading they get will not be that accurate as the full couple of sec reading which the jammer can interfere with, but you need to slow down, shut the jammer and allow the LIDAR to acquire the signal.

There was great YouTube video of trucker (which is totally illegal for truckers to have radar detectors or jammer) who got pulled over since the officer knew he had some sort of jammer/detector on his rig, and they search the Truck (did not tear it apart) looking for it, turning on all the switches and looking for hidden switches but could not find it or activate it. The guy indirectly admit he had something, but never said where it was hidden or how it was activated.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Maestro

It is a $10,000 federal fine for operating a frequency jamming or interference devise. I personally never heard of anyone getting reported to the FCC and being fine but it is out there if a judge wants to make an example of you.

I know there are some Jammer which interface to the ODB port on the car and you can have it automatically turn off once the car speed drops to a certain speed limit. The best one only turns on once it receive a LIDAR signal. If the Officer has a feature which allows a quick burst you will be too late to jam it, but the ready they get will not be that accurate as the full couple of sec ready which the jammer can interfere with, but you need to slow down, shut the jammer and allow the LIDAR to acquire the signal.

There was great YouTube video of trucker (which is totally illegal for truckers to have radar detectors or jammer) who got pulled over since the officer knew he had some sort of jammer/detector on his rig, and they search the Truck (did not tear it apart) looking for it, turning on all the switches and looking for hidden switches but could not find it or activate it. The guy indirectly admit he had something, but never said where it was hidden or how it was activated.

In that case I would take my LIDAR gun's download to court to show the magistrate that my gun was, indeed, being jammed by that vehicle although I couldn't find the jammer itself. I would have a 50/50 shot of getting the favorable ruling.

[Maestro]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

In that case I would take my LIDAR gun's download to court to show the magistrate that my gun was, indeed, being jammed by that vehicle although I couldn't find the jammer itself. I would have a 50/50 shot of getting the favorable ruling.

That video dates way back and before LIDAR gun got better. I know the folk over at radardetectors.net use to get their hands on radar and LIDAR guns and use to do real world testing. They use to test the jamming features, and they said if you were like 10 over, and you heard the signal and hit the brakes fast enough you could slow 10 in less time it took the LIDAR to acquire the returning signal, it is not instantaneously. Plus no person using a LIDAR is perfect it take a little time to accurately acquire the target, It is not unusually for you to hit the front then the hood then the windshield before your settle the gun. Especially at longer distances, You already said you wait to they get close this reduces error. The easies way to beat a LIDAR ticket was the one which were done over 1000ft, the target area is small at and the beam spread was 8 to 10 ft so you could be hitting multiply things at the same time and the gun needed time to figure out what was the true return signal.

I use to have the operating and training manuals for a couple of the popular LIDAR and Radar guns. Over the years the manual became useless since they did not want people like me knowing how the gun worked

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Maestro

That video dates way back and before LIDAR gun got better. I know the folk over at radardetectors.net use to get their hands on radar and LIDAR guns and use to do real world testing. They use to test the jamming features, and they said if you were like 10 over, and you heard the signal and hit the brakes fast enough you could slow 10 in less time it took the LIDAR to acquire the returning signal, it is not instantaneously. Plus no person using a LIDAR is perfect it take a little time to accurately acquire the target, It is not unusually for you to hit the front then the hood then the windshield before your settle the gun. Especially at longer distances, You already said you wait to they get close this reduces error. The easies way to beat a LIDAR ticket was the one which were done over 1000ft, the target area is small at and the beam spread was 8 to 10 ft so you could be hitting multiply things at the same time and the gun need time to figure out what was the true return signal.

I use to have the operating and training manuals for a couple of the popular LIDAR and Radar guns. Over the years the manual became useless since they did not want people like me knowing how the gun worked

I wait for the vehicle to get closer to visually estimate because department policy and state requirements (…California P.O.S.T.) mandate that we do it. It's an integrity thing. If I didn't have integrity I wouldn't do it and I would just lie and state that I did. My gun is calibrated and accurate. Using a LIDAR gun isn't that difficult and the learning curve isn't steep. I mean, my LIDAR gun has a red dot in the viewing window. It couldn't get any easier. See car, aim at car, pull trigger…..obtain reading. If you are shooting uphill or downhill, that could pose an issue because the laser needs to return to the gun in order to get a reading; flat surfaces are easy as pie. Rain can cause an issue because the laser bounces off of the water.


P.S. When my gun is being jammed, the reading is a series of symbols and nonsense rather than a speed. That's how I know.

[Maestro]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I wait for the vehicle to get closer to visually estimate because department policy and state requirements (…California P.O.S.T.) mandate that we do it. It's an integrity thing. If I didn't have integrity I wouldn't do it and I would just lie and state that I did. My gun is calibrated and accurate. Using a LIDAR gun isn't that difficult and the learning curve isn't steep. I mean, my LIDAR gun has a red dot in the viewing window. It couldn't get any easier. See car, aim at car, pull trigger…..obtain reading. If you are shooting uphill or downhill, that could pose an issue because the laser needs to return to the gun in order to get a reading; flat surfaces are easy as pie. Rain can cause an issue because the laser bounces off of the water.


P.S. When my gun is being jammed, the reading is a series of symbols and nonsense rather than a speed. That's how I know.

Your P.O.S.T is due to the fact of various case laws establish by people who fought tickets and won because of poor use practices by police all over the country. There was guy who use to rent LIDAR gun to people so they can take them to court to show the Judge how they work and all the possible errors. At the time it was easy to show a wall was moving at 10mph or worse. They were not perfect.

I am assuming you do a field calibration to ensure the parallax between your red dot viewer and the actual laser lines up at distance. No different than sighting the scope on a rifle.

[upstatedoc]

Originally Posted by Tommy-G

Is it illegal to jamb Lidar/radar in California? What is the citation or fine approx?

Some would say it's cheaper to pay a jammer ticket than a speeding ticket.

[vreihen16]

Originally Posted by upstatedoc

Some would say it's cheaper to pay a jammer ticket than a speeding ticket.

Some would say that it's cheaper to just obey the laws...

...says the guy who got yanked for 122 MPH in a 55 MPH zone out west, despite having a V1.....

[Mason Hatcher]

Originally Posted by Maestro

Your P.O.S.T is due to the fact of various case laws establish by people who fought tickets and won because of poor use practices by police all over the country. There was guy who use to rent LIDAR gun to people so they can take them to court to show the Judge how they work and all the possible errors. At the time it was easy to show a wall was moving at 10mph or worse. They were not perfect.

I am assuming you do a field calibration to ensure the parallax between your red dot viewer and the actual laser lines up at distance. No different than sighting the scope on a rifle.

Fighting a ticket and being found not guilty does not establish case law.

[BMWILUVU]

The best radar detectors I've owned is the Valentine One Gen 2 and the R7. Sold the R7 for the V1G2 after getting a ticket on the R7 but it really wasn't its fault and still got a ticket on the V1G2. Both tickets were unavoidable because of the trooper's strategy. The best radar detector is your road awareness and sense.

[ryan stewart]

Originally Posted by Tommy-G

Up North (NJ/PA/NY) speed traps were everywhere. Down here in Florida, if you're not speeding you're getting blown off the road and I don't think I have a speed trap in 6 years.

It would be interesting to see the number of citations written state by state or even here as the population has taken off

My experience in GA as well. In Kansas I was the fast guy, now I have to make sure and get over quickly if doing under 85 because someone will be on my ass by the time I completed the pass.

Like said, I just stick below points knowing I can handle the fine if it ever happens (only gotten hit once in a trap zone where the speed limit dropped 20 mph and the guy was hiding around the curve at 2am on a Tuesday).

Brake lights and waze/google are my radar detectors, not that I am ever really going fast enough in the car to have to scrub any speed, if anything I just slow down enough to not invite "contempt of cop" charges.

[Maynard]

What ever happened to that $1200/gallon radar absorbing paint (even got a cameo in the opening sequence of Cannonball). Those were the good old days...

[Maestro]

Originally Posted by Mason Hatcher

Fighting a ticket and being found not guilty does not establish case law.

It does when people appeal the traffic courts decisions to the states higher courts. PA where I live I have about 10 higher court decisions on traffic tickets and they set the precedent, a few of the laws actually are listing court case in the updated traffic laws to address the issue the courts found in favor of the driver.

Early on lots of LIDAR tickets were fought and taken to higher courts due to the inherent faults that could occur if not used correctly. Many time officer would tag someone 1000Ft to 2000Ft out and thought they would only painting the car they pointed at. They thought it was like a visible laser we all know which stay pretty focused, however, LIDAR using infrared lasers and the spread over distance and the beam spread could be 10 to 15 feet, do you could be hitting multiply cars at one time.

You would wonder who would take a traffic ticket all the way to the states highest courts, other than a few people who were determine to show the state and the police were wrong. Most of the cases I read were drug or DUI cases, the person was pulled over for some sort of speeding or other traffic infraction which lead to the Drug or DUI charge. Since they could not win Drug or DUI case, the next best thing is to get the reason the person was stop in the first place which lead to the drug/DUI conviction thrown out. If they speeding stop was found to be illegal it make anything the office found after the stop the fruit of the poison tree.

All those Drug/DUI case I read I learned lots about traffic laws especially in PA that help me and helped other fight tickets. Most Magistrates had not idea of the various case laws and bringing them to court when the officer does not follow proper procedures helps win tickets.

[Maestro]

Originally Posted by Maynard

What ever happened to that $1200/gallon radar absorbing paint (even got a cameo in the opening sequence of Cannonball). Those were the good old days...

When I lived in CA, one of my neighbors was a military aviation mechanic at the local airbase. One day he got his hands on the special paint they used on some of the planes which was suppose to absorb radar. He painted his car with it thinking he would not get caught speeding. Problem was there are other surfaces like the windshield which also can bounce back radar so he got caught speeding. Not sure if the paint actually did anything or was the real stuff since someone at the base could have just lied to him but he was not happy about especially when I told him any unpainted surface could bounce back the waves.

[3.0L]

I've never had a speeding ticket, or any other type of traffic ticket.

Also, I've never owned a radar detector.

This is not to suggest I haven't gone fast.

[vreihen16]

Originally Posted by 3.0L

This is not to suggest I haven't gone fast.

Yes, but doing it at angels 30 doesn't count.....

[3.0L]

Originally Posted by vreihen16

Yes, but doing it at angels 30 doesn't count.....

I've done it at street level, too.

[3.0L]

Originally Posted by vreihen16

Yes, but doing it at angels 30 doesn't count.....

Neglected to mention that there are speed limits below 10,000 feet.

[Nuckle]

Have used Escort for 25 years. Upgrades arrived today!