[BMWCCA1]

The premise of this thread was that y'all wanted to push a button and order your car. That does not include a brick-and-mortar location at which you can try them out. Also, most of your experiences you mention are with used cars. That's never going to change, unless you trust Carvana to pay thousands over retail and then turn around and sell you a car over the Internet for a fair price. Pick any one of those . . . can't have both.

You rely on the manufacturer to replace dealers you'll get a centralized location much like airport hubs. If you live where I do, your closet "showroom" is likely to be a 4-hour round-trip visit.

I've been a JBL owner for over 60-years and their current distribution under Samsung ownership means I can't find a place to audition any current reference speaker system. Sure, I can buy all the wireless headphones I want at Best Buy, but show me where to go to see a pair of DD67000 speakers. That's what you're going to end up with if dealers don't exist or can't make a living. What you want is better dealers. I don't think you really want no dealers. I want peace in Ukraine, too, but I don't want Putin running the country.

[Piper1]

Originally Posted by BMWCCA1

The premise of this thread was that y'all wanted to push a button and order your car. That does not include a brick-and-mortar location at which you can try them out. Also, most of your experiences you mention are with used cars. That's never going to change, unless you trust Carvana to pay thousands over retail and then turn around and sell you a car over the Internet for a fair price. Pick any one of those . . . can't have both.
.

Fair enough point there concerning used. All my bmws are used but not all cars I’ve owned. Was using those three as an example to the bmw world. Have ordered our new bronco and am happy to wait a year and a half for it. And being in the motor city trust me when I say bmw dealers are Very scarce. Nor is there a new bmw model that sparks my interest.

I was about to purchase a 2020 Supra new until the dealer when “running the numbers” gave a “discount” of +10k over msrp. When I questioned since not a launch edition their response in January of 2020 was market value. That put it over what getting into a F Type would be. I passed and 4 months later they called asking if I was still interested I could have it now for 5k under msrp. So a 15k drop in 4 months of market value???? Oh wait that’s when they announced all the upgrades the 2021s were going to get. No thanks I passed again and last year decided to hunt for a E86 and eventually they sold it or transferred the Supra out who knows. And they knew I would’ve traded my e85 for it. So glad I’ve kept it.

Ford/Chevy/Chrysler dealers are like Walgreens. One at every corner. For our bronco went in test drove one went on the portal built, printed, gave it to our family friend at the dealership placed the order. It cut out all the red tape of options I don’t want for any upsale I wouldn’t need. Not that they’d push us to anything we knew the salesman since he was in diapers so they know what we want and order what I handed to him. Easy peasy.

Edit: to add something extra. My wife purchased her 2000 wrangler which we have still to this day. It was a graduation present to herself. She was with her brothers and father. Had her sister-in-law employee generated pin to purchase and the dealer wouldn’t let her test drive one. They looked at her being a “girl who didn’t know anything”. If you knew her you’d know it was for her, her dream car since growing up in the generation of Dukes of Hazard. Needless to say the second dealer they went to order and sold it to her after she test drove one and she takes pride working on it when there’s a project wanting to be done to it. Again it’s nothing towards you. But shady sale people that cause the most problems for you. There’s plenty of dealers through the years I’ve looked at both new and used, online, in person that I’ve not stepped foot in since, each of them due to sale persons.

[Rated M Roadster]

Originally Posted by BMWCCA1

. . . and still people hate sales advisors?

Not everything is about you; this thread is not about you.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by BMWCCA1

The premise of this thread was that y'all wanted to push a button and order your car. That does not include a brick-and-mortar location at which you can try them out. Also, most of your experiences you mention are with used cars. That's never going to change, unless you trust Carvana to pay thousands over retail and then turn around and sell you a car over the Internet for a fair price. Pick any one of those . . . can't have both.

You rely on the manufacturer to replace dealers you'll get a centralized location much like airport hubs. If you live where I do, your closet "showroom" is likely to be a 4-hour round-trip visit.

I've been a JBL owner for over 60-years and their current distribution under Samsung ownership means I can't find a place to audition any current reference speaker system. Sure, I can buy all the wireless headphones I want at Best Buy, but show me where to go to see a pair of DD67000 speakers. That's what you're going to end up with if dealers don't exist or can't make a living. What you want is better dealers. I don't think you really want no dealers. I want peace in Ukraine, too, but I don't want Putin running the country.

Let’s be real. You can’t “try a car out” to the extent you actually need unless you are leasing. No one is really going to figure out the small stuff that will bug them in the long run or the driving dynamics between 8/10 and 10/10.

[BMWCCA1]

Originally Posted by Rated M Roadster

Not everything is about you; this thread is not about you.

Let's talk about your job and how we hate interactions with your work, and how we don't need you anymore, either. Try Health Insurance. Are those of you who want to get rid of car dealerships also in favor of single-payer, government health-care? As it happens, I am, but as a right of citizenship like most other developed countries. Socialism? Ask your grandparents who are on Social Security and Medicare what they think of Socialism. My insurer recently sent me a 90-day supply of an expensive drug for free, but it was a Lilly product sourced from Canada. I'd be up in arms over that situation far more than bad service from automobile salespeople.

Any of you out there government employees? Let's start on the value of your jobs. Any realtors who actually represent the buyers instead of the seller? You're a minority, too. Any traffic cops? Good and bad cops, too. Anyone work for red-light or speed-camera companies?

If there are any pediatricians, or school teachers—you guys and girls get a pass. As the father of three kids I know they don't pay you what you're worth. And we couldn't do without you!

Why don't I see the same outcry from this group about Rolex dealers? Seems a similar problem. They jack up prices and treat customers differently. Why not order your Yacht Master direct from Rolex? Why do you need a dealer making a profit? When you have a problem (annual cleaning) you have to send it back to Rolex anyway?

Yes, it's not about me, but it could be about you!

[TheWatchGuy]

Originally Posted by BMWCCA1

Let's talk about your job and how we hate interactions with your work, and how we don't need you anymore, either. Try Health Insurance. Are those of you who want to get rid of car dealerships also in favor of single-payer, government health-care? As it happens, I am, but as a right of citizenship like most other developed countries. Socialism? Ask your grandparents who are on Social Security and Medicare what they think of Socialism. My insurer recently sent me a 90-day supply of an expensive drug for free, but it was a Lilly product sourced from Canada. I'd be up in arms over that situation far more than bad service from automobile salespeople.

Any of you out there government employees? Let's start on the value of your jobs. Any realtors who actually represent the buyers instead of the seller? You're a minority, too. Any traffic cops? Good and bad cops, too. Anyone work for red-light or speed-camera companies?

If there are any pediatricians, or school teachers—you guys and girls get a pass. As the father of three kids I know they don't pay you what you're worth. And we couldn't do without you!

Why don't I see the same outcry from this group about Rolex dealers? Seems a similar problem. They jack up prices and treat customers differently. Why not order your Yacht Master direct from Rolex? Why do you need a dealer making a profit? When you have a problem (annual cleaning) you have to send it back to Rolex anyway?

Yes, it's not about me, but it could be about you!

Not gonna lie, all your responses just show why online ordering would be so much better.

I dont need a salesguy to hold my hand while im ordering a car. The salesguy literally does nothing I couldnt do while im ordering a car. With the way things are right now, with barely any cars available on lots, it would make sense for manufacturers to open up direct to customer ordering options. This has nothing to do with used cars. Used cars there will always be dealers because not many people are buying used cars site unseen outside of exotics and other high priced, hard to find cars.

And you need to spend more time in watch circles if you think there isnt a huge outcry from the watch world regarding Rolex and its dealers.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by BMWCCA1

Let's talk about your job and how we hate interactions with your work, and how we don't need you anymore, either. Try Health Insurance. Are those of you who want to get rid of car dealerships also in favor of single-payer, government health-care? As it happens, I am, but as a right of citizenship like most other developed countries. Socialism? Ask your grandparents who are on Social Security and Medicare what they think of Socialism. My insurer recently sent me a 90-day supply of an expensive drug for free, but it was a Lilly product sourced from Canada. I'd be up in arms over that situation far more than bad service from automobile salespeople.

Any of you out there government employees? Let's start on the value of your jobs. Any realtors who actually represent the buyers instead of the seller? You're a minority, too. Any traffic cops? Good and bad cops, too. Anyone work for red-light or speed-camera companies?

If there are any pediatricians, or school teachers—you guys and girls get a pass. As the father of three kids I know they don't pay you what you're worth. And we couldn't do without you!

Why don't I see the same outcry from this group about Rolex dealers? Seems a similar problem. They jack up prices and treat customers differently. Why not order your Yacht Master direct from Rolex? Why do you need a dealer making a profit? When you have a problem (annual cleaning) you have to send it back to Rolex anyway?

Yes, it's not about me, but it could be about you!

You should probably take a break from this thread before you give yourself a heart attack or stroke.

We are talking about sales people at a dealer and you got in to healthcare, socialism, Rolex dealers, etc.

[Piper1]

Originally Posted by BMWCCA1

Let's talk about your job and how we hate interactions with your work, and how we don't need you anymore, either. Try Health Insurance.
Yes, it's not about me, but it could be about you!

Last post I’ll probably add to this thread. All I ask is that you stay on topic.

Yes. I’m a former county worker who lost his job due to budget cuts. Half our crew did.

When I started working retail I’d always say the customers twice my age acting like half my age to get what they want would really piss me off.

Yes I’m a former business owner who closed shop due to policies out of my control impacting the flow of goods coming and going.

Yes I’m an autoworker who is as a grades school teacher once said, there will always be exceptions to always, every, no one, every one.

I work for Ford in a plant that doesn’t hit the media much. Last contract “every plant” eliminated the tiers. EXCEPT 2. That never hit the media. I’m in one of those two, am a 2 tier employee with no retirement pension and no health care benefits from Ford after leaving, working at a lower wage than the guy next to me that we’ve been doing the job together for 10 years since he hired in before me and is tier 1 employee. The reason is we’re a part supply plant for Ford and to stay “competitive” we have to work at wages and benefits competitive with a non Union plant to keep from our parts being outsourced and continue to be made by Ford. The only way I can get to tier 1 is to transfer to another plant in my area never able to come back to where I’m at. Good thing I didn’t pick one of those offered to me because they shut it down last contract. The next available is minimum 1.5 hours each way drive opposed to my 10 minute drive now. My Father in law retired from my plant, both my brother in laws work at my plant, one of which in my department. So I plan on riding it out where I am as long as I can before challenging myself with something new.

Given my employment history coming from right to work jobs and understanding the retail industry I do buy in to some, but not all the claims. But can’t help but at times when I see those union reps that were pounding their chests at orientation claiming they’ll eliminate the 2 tiers wondering what they’d say hind sight 10 years later.

Perhaps in your life maybe this is a sign to do something new. Is it scary. Absolutely. But change is inevitable. I’m a parent as well. I remember hardships my family went through when my dad lost his job which also was his passion both hobby and profession due to the company going belly up. He never recovered his love for that passion again. To this day some 30 years later. That passion is dead to him. Does it hurt. Absolutely. Did he move on. Yes.

When it comes to any worldly political crap or anything else please for the love of Mike least make it a different thread.

[Rated M Roadster]

Originally Posted by BMWCCA1

Let's talk about your job and how we hate interactions with your work, and how we don't need you anymore, either. Try Health Insurance. Are those of you who want to get rid of car dealerships also in favor of single-payer, government health-care? As it happens, I am, but as a right of citizenship like most other developed countries. Socialism? Ask your grandparents who are on Social Security and Medicare what they think of Socialism. My insurer recently sent me a 90-day supply of an expensive drug for free, but it was a Lilly product sourced from Canada. I'd be up in arms over that situation far more than bad service from automobile salespeople.

Any of you out there government employees? Let's start on the value of your jobs. Any realtors who actually represent the buyers instead of the seller? You're a minority, too. Any traffic cops? Good and bad cops, too. Anyone work for red-light or speed-camera companies?

If there are any pediatricians, or school teachers—you guys and girls get a pass. As the father of three kids I know they don't pay you what you're worth. And we couldn't do without you!

Why don't I see the same outcry from this group about Rolex dealers? Seems a similar problem. They jack up prices and treat customers differently. Why not order your Yacht Master direct from Rolex? Why do you need a dealer making a profit? When you have a problem (annual cleaning) you have to send it back to Rolex anyway?

Yes, it's not about me, but it could be about you!

I stand corrected, Phil. You are the person people are trying to avoid at car dealerships. You're responses are embarrassing.

[G35POPPEDMYCHERRY]

dude needs to be making cold calls instead of arguing on the internet forums lol

[chassis]

Good list:
- car salespeople
- health insurers
- realtors
- more?

These occupations can and should be eliminated. Plenty of other jobs available for the hypothetically displaced persons.

[RobC2]

Originally Posted by BMWCCA1

Great. Now all the schlemiels who order cars from me and wriggle out of the deal once the car is produced won't have a sympathetic ear to bend when they want their deposit back. All those dicks who place orders all over the place and just expect to walk away from all but one will be contractually obligated to complete the sale on each car they order and spec to their individual taste. I guaranty Ford won't be as understanding as the local dealership you screwed.

People are actually placing multiple orders all over the place? Not deposits on upcoming allocations, but actual orders? If so, I am not grasping the rationale here. Unless you hit them with additional charges or something when it arrives, why would enough people be backing out of orders that it is a big enough issue to call out?

[M3WC]

It is not happening period, especially when politicians are involved in various regions. Dealer franchise laws are here to stay. You can thank giant dealership groups like Autonation, Sonic, Penske, Hendrick, etc…they call the shots with their money.

[BMWCCA1]

Originally Posted by Rated M Roadster

I stand corrected, Phil. You are the person people are trying to avoid at car dealerships. You're responses are embarrassing.

I suppose it is quite vain of me to assume that there are others in my profession who value personal relationships, honesty, and product knowledge at least as much as I do. That you have never found them should not cause you to condemn all dealerships or all client advisors.

Gets you pissed-off, doesn't it, when someone makes blanket assumptions about your profession. If everyone obeyed the Golden Rule the world would be a much better place.

Please, carry on with your myopic thread. Like watching Fox News, I find it interesting to see what the rest of the world is thinking.

[chassis]

Can someone please list the main laws in a couple of states that regulate sales of vehicles? Just a couple of them, no need for an exhaustive list, which would be very long and take lots of time to compile.

There is an element of embedded entitlement in the retail vehicle establishment. This has not been outlined in depth on this thread yet. The embedded entitlement affects the trajectory of the dealer model going forward.

[TheWatchGuy]

Originally Posted by chassis

Can someone please list the main laws in a couple of states that regulate sales of vehicles? Just a couple of them, no need for an exhaustive list, which would be very long and takes lots of time to compile.

There is an element of embedded entitlement in the retail vehicle establishment. This has not been outlined in depth on this thread yet. The embedded entitlement affects the trajectory of the dealer model going forward.

google "dealer franchise laws"

Most states have laws in place that prohibit buying directly from the manufacturer.

[TheWatchGuy]

Originally Posted by BMWCCA1

I suppose it is quite vain of me to assume that there are others in my profession who value personal relationships, honesty, and product knowledge at least as much as I do. That you have never found them should not cause you to condemn all dealerships or all client advisors.

Gets you pissed-off, doesn't it, when someone makes blanket assumptions about your profession. If everyone obeyed the Golden Rule the world would be a much better place.

Please, carry on with your myopic thread. Like watching Fox News, I find it interesting to see what the rest of the world is thinking.

no one is condemning all dealers, but you are naiive to think the majority of salespeople are like you.

Times are changing, and with the latest price gouging from dealers during the pandemic and now supply chain issues, its only a matter of time before these franchise laws get changed. It has nothing to do with how people feel about salespeople, but everything to do with how much of a hassle it is to buy a new car. From having to bs with a salesperson, to physically signing all the paperwork, to sitting in a finance office getting pitched the same thing youve turned down multiple times, its not a pleasant experience for everyone. And its something that can all be done online easily if outdated laws werent protecting dealers.

as an aside, its hard for me to believe you are the most caring, nicest salesperson in the country, when youre such a dick online. cant imagine all your customers would agree with your stance that youre great.

[mikado463]

Originally Posted by BMWCCA1

The premise of this thread was that y'all wanted to push a button and order your car. That does not include a brick-and-mortar location at which you can try them out. Also, most of your experiences you mention are with used cars. That's never going to change, unless you trust Carvana to pay thousands over retail and then turn around and sell you a car over the Internet for a fair price. Pick any one of those . . . can't have both.

You rely on the manufacturer to replace dealers you'll get a centralized location much like airport hubs. If you live where I do, your closet "showroom" is likely to be a 4-hour round-trip visit.

I've been a JBL owner for over 60-years and their current distribution under Samsung ownership means I can't find a place to audition any current reference speaker system. Sure, I can buy all the wireless headphones I want at Best Buy, but show me where to go to see a pair of DD67000 speakers. That's what you're going to end up with if dealers don't exist or can't make a living. What you want is better dealers. I don't think you really want no dealers. I want peace in Ukraine, too, but I don't want Putin running the country.

if you decide to live in the middle of nowhere please show me one economically justifiable reason for a brick and mortar stereo shop. The economics barely make sense even in populated areas anymore.

As for car dealers and EV's, given their current model by which the $$ are made in service I suspect that will change as well ?

[nerdogray]

I never really took BMWCCA1's replies as offensive. He's just passionate and a straight-shooter, and he actually maintained quite a bit of composure and tact in spite of a few attacks.

[TheWatchGuy]

Originally Posted by mikado463

if you decide to live in the middle of nowhere please show me one economically justifiable reason for a brick and mortar stereo shop. The economics barely make sense even in populated areas anymore.

As for car dealers and EV's, given their current model by which the $$ are made in service I suspect that will change as well ?

not to get off topic, but brick and motar for stereos just dont make any sense even not in an economical sense. If youre going there so you can hear for yourself how it sounds, youre already getting scammed as you can make even the shittiest of speakers sound great in the perfect environment. Unfortunately, about 99% of installs arent a perfect environment so you will be overpaying for a name brand component that has a big profit margin for the shop, instead of getting the consensus best value speaker from the thousands of online reviews by guys that do this for a living.

[RM7]

Even with dealer franchise laws, they end up redundant in more populated areas and not enough in the remote. There's two chevy dealerships in my relatively small town. It takes about 20 minutes to get from one to the other. This makes no sense and is on a much bigger scale in bigger cities. If we need redundancy for the servincing department, so be it, but that doesn't necessarily even mean more locations. It sure as hell doesn't mean more sales departments. It's not just a few people that are fed up with this model and how it tries to cheat you out of money every single time:

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...261647461.html

[BMWCCA1]

Originally Posted by mikado463

if you decide to live in the middle of nowhere please show me one economically justifiable reason for a brick and mortar stereo shop. The economics barely make sense even in populated areas anymore.

Maybe love for their products? https://www.audiovideologic.com/