[Westside Guy]

Originally Posted by KevinC

I'm not blasting anyone for liking the car, nor for getting excited about a manual possibly coming. My main point is - it's not a popular car now, and I don't think this changes that. Perhaps I'll be proven wrong, and I'll happily eat crow if that's how it plays out.

We all know that roadsters are targeted at a small segment of the market. I think people will see the value of the Z4 vs. a Porsche and a year from now you will proven wrong. The addition of a manual transmission will definitely increase sales for this model.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by Westside Guy

The addition of a manual transmission will definitely increase sales for this model.

I hope so but the previous top model Z4 (e89 35IS) also already wasn't available with a manual (only the 35I was). I'm afraid that a big portion of the original fanbase that cared for driving involvement already has gone to porsche and such manufacturers a long time ago.
To what extend does BMW still attract the clientele that buys new cars and that goes for 100% driving involvement and thus demands a manual transmission?

[chris719]

Originally Posted by BMWGirlFL

G29 and the earlier Z roadsters are very different. Show over function does not fairly describe the M40i.

While you do make a valid point about the car's straight line acceleration, you are missing the point. I test drove one and it's just too numb. Capable, no doubt, and I would not call it a "hairdresser's car", but it's not what most people want out of a sports car I think.

A sports car should have feel, feedback, and an aggressive character. The Z4 since E85 and E86 M versions have lacked that. An automatic Z4, as good of a car as it is, is very far in terms of sportiness to a Z4M with S54, manual, and a much more aggressive setup. Is the old Z4M a slower and less capable car? Yes, it's not a modern car, but it was BMW's last attempt to make an actual sports car out of the Z4. They moved the goalpost to a softer setup since then and I don't think it's helped.

The Supra has just enough feedback (barely), but somehow BMW can't even be bothered to figure out what Toyota did parameter wise to the steering and differential and copy that into the Z4.

If BMW made another Z4M or a Z4 M40i that isn't designed to occupy the GT / cruiser segment I would be very interested. The car needs to be more Boxster and less MB SLC or whatever they call it now. If the Z4 M40i had the tuning of the Supra and a manual out of the gate I would already own one.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by chris719

While you do make a valid point about the car's straight line acceleration, you are missing the point. I test drove one and it's just too numb. Capable, no doubt, and I would not call it a "hairdresser's car", but it's not what most people want out of a sports car I think.

A sports car should have feel, feedback, and an aggressive character. The Z4 since E85 and E86 M versions have lacked that. An automatic Z4, as good of a car as it is, is very far in terms of sportiness to a Z4M with S54, manual, and a much more aggressive setup. Is the old Z4M a slower and less capable car? Yes, it's not a modern car, but it was BMW's last attempt to make an actual sports car out of the Z4. They moved the goalpost to a softer setup since then and I don't think it's helped.

The Supra has just enough feedback (barely), but somehow BMW can't even be bothered to figure out what Toyota did parameter wise to the steering and differential and copy that into the Z4.

If BMW made another Z4M or a Z4 M40i that isn't designed to occupy the GT / cruiser segment I would be very interested. The car needs to be more Boxster and less MB SLC or whatever they call it now. If the Z4 M40i had the tuning of the Supra and a manual out of the gate I would already own one.

What you're saying is all correct, but I feel BMW figured out a while ago that that 99% of their customers just want a car that's somewhat sporty but not all out sports car. That's why the F/G generations have not earned the adoration of enthusiasts in the way prior models did. I know a lot of colleagues and friends who own BMWs, and none of them really give a shit about cars in the way we do. They won't be waking up at 7am to find a fun back road or hanging out on forums in their free time.

As a result, the Z4 just straddles that line between luxury and sporty without being truly committed to the latter. I had test drive a Z4 M40i too and like most BMWs, I felt it had the right "stuff." Amazing powertrain, stiff ride, decent exhaust note, great chassis. But the "feedback" part in the steering/handling category was absent. Steering felt mostly mute and uncommunicative. For majority of customers it's not a dealbreaker. For those of us who care, our only option for a sports car is Porsche.

[BMWGirlFL]

Originally Posted by chris719

Capable, no doubt, and I would not call it a "hairdresser's car"

TY All I'm basically saying. It is what it is. For me, that means tremendous performance value & FUN.

[BMWGirlFL]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

As a result, the Z4 just straddles that line between luxury and sporty without being truly committed to the latter. I had test drive a Z4 M40i too and like most BMWs, I felt it had the right "stuff." Amazing powertrain, stiff ride, decent exhaust note, great chassis. But the "feedback" part in the steering/handling category was absent. Steering felt mostly mute and uncommunicative. For majority of customers it's not a dealbreaker. For those of us who care, our only option for a sports car is Porsche.

A better automotive cocktail for me than expected.

[No one]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

I feel BMW figured out a while ago that that 99% of their customers just want a car that's somewhat sporty but not all out sports car.

They target public that see BMW as a reputable brand but give no shit where that reputation came from. Those want a luxury car. Look at some lame guy around choosing a BMW for an infotainment support. BMW just try to keep up to "driver's car" to the extent "possible". Or may be not anymore.

[StickyPickle]

Well got dam, the Z4 M40i was the car I was seriously considering not too long ago but didn't go through with it due to the lack of a manual (which is one of the main reasons I have a deposit on a G87). Now I have a decision to make lol

[PackPride85]

My guess is Toyota is doing all the design work/engineering/certification testing and per some contract they are required to share it with BMW. No way BMW would spend the $$$ to do all of that just for the Z4 from scratch.

[BMWGirlFL]

[chris719]

Originally Posted by PackPride85

My guess is Toyota is doing all the design work/engineering/certification testing and per some contract they are required to share it with BMW. No way BMW would spend the $$$ to do all of that just for the Z4 from scratch.

I doubt it's much work since the base Z4 already had a manual, and BMW already has manuals that bolt up to B58. I am sure they are sharing the cost.

[StradaRedlands]

Originally Posted by BMWGirlFL

Zed's dead, baby.

[tracer bullet]

Originally Posted by chris719

...but somehow BMW can't even be bothered to figure out what Toyota did parameter wise to the steering and differential and copy that into the Z4...

Agreeing with Germanauto , I think, that BMW totally knows what to do, just doesn't want to. Quotes were posted here in the past from one of their head honchos that most buyers don't want steering feedback and so they dialed it out on purpose.

[allinon72]

Another point to consider is the modern day BMW 6MT, found in the G series, isn't exactly getting high marks. I assume it's the same transmission that will go in this car.

[KevinC]

Originally Posted by allinon72

Another point to consider is the modern day BMW 6MT, found in the G series, isn't exactly getting high marks. I assume it's the same transmission that will go in this car.

Nothing wrong with any modern BMW manual transmission, aside from shift feel not being stellar, which is par for the course for most German cars since the dawn of time. Having driven early VW cable-shifted cars in the '90s, I don't mind ANY BMW shift linkage feel. What I WOULD care about is if the trannies were fragile and/or had a weak clutch. Neither of those things is an issue.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by KevinC

Nothing wrong with any modern BMW manual transmission, aside from shift feel not being stellar, which is par for the course for most German cars since the dawn of time. Having driven early VW cable-shifted cars in the '90s, I don't mind ANY BMW shift linkage feel. What I WOULD care about is if the trannies were fragile and/or had a weak clutch. Neither of those things is an issue.

I would say they all are mediocre at best and I own one. Feel is important because otherwise, why drive a manual? They certainly don't shift like a Porsche or even a Corvette (TR-6060 etc.). That said, I would still have one, but just.