[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by G30M

You could if you put a big battery in there and let it run in battery until the end of the emissions test.

Let's see if the Volkswagen Group gives that a try?
What's another $4.3 Billion in criminal and civil penalties?

[G30M]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

Let's see if the Volkswagen Group gives that a try?
What's another $4.3 Billion in criminal and civil penalties?

that's what every other PHEV is doing already, they then claim a very low mpg, very low CO2 emission, people buy them coz they get don't get penalized

but the mpg only applies until the battery runs out, then you're an ICE lugging a big heavy battery

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

Let's see if the Volkswagen Group gives that a try?
What's another $4.3 Billion in criminal and civil penalties?

Dieselgate was bullshit anyways. The EPA should have designed a better test, not got mad they designed a crappy test that had obvious loopholes on top of their absurd and arbitrary rules.

[Efthreeoh]

A lot of people don't understand how hybrids work.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

A lot of people don't understand how hybrids work.

FTFU A lot of people don't understand how hybrids should work.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

FTFU A lot of people don't understand how hybrids should work.

Parallel > think extra pistons to add power to the engine when loads dictate.

Serial > think on-board electrical generation to power the electric motor(s).

Neither "are lugging around a big heavy battery"...

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Parallel > think extra pistons to add power to the engine when loads dictate.

Didn't Cadillac try that and if memory serves it didn't turn out well.

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Serial > think on-board electrical generation to power the electric motor(s).

I think Fisker was onto something here, too bad they had more ideas that sales or money.

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Neither "are lugging around a big heavy battery"...

There in lies the issue. At the bottom of any competent engineer list of how to obtain high mileage with lower energy consumption would be adding 800 to 1000lbs to the vehicle.

Good example of what is possible.
I think the work being done in WEC Hypercar is very interesting.
https://toyotagazooracing.com/release/2021/wec/0115-01/

[pbonsalb]

Probably some expensive carbon fiber in the chassis and body. I doubt it has sound deadening, full leather interior, massaging seats, air conditioning, 18 speaker sound system, etc.

I am old enough to remember practical family cars like a Volvo 740 wagon that weighed 3200 lbs. Today, many think a practical family car is a Chevy Suburban weighing 5800 lbs. And I think the Ford F150 is the most popular (in terms of sales volume) vehicle in the US. At least the F150 is a little lighter than the Suburban. Electrify or hybridize already porky vehicles and you get obesity. We need ozempic for vehicles.

[BlkGS]

Ramcharger is going to be a serial hybrid. It's probably going to decimate the EV truck market, if they can contain pricing. Considereing the new HO Rams are l90k for a top trim, I'm not that hopeful about the pricing. They'll probably start at like 60-70k for a basic truck, lol.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

Didn't Cadillac try that and if memory serves it didn't turn out well.


I think Fisker was onto something here, too bad they had more ideas that sales or money.


There in lies the issue. At the bottom of any competent engineer list of how to obtain high mileage with lower energy consumption would be adding 800 to 1000lbs to the vehicle.

Good example of what is possible.
I think the work being done in WEC Hypercar is very interesting.
https://toyotagazooracing.com/release/2021/wec/0115-01/

Comparing a E90 325i to a 2017 Chevy Volt. Overall passenger/luggage volume is 105 cu.ft., the Volt is 100 cu.ft. The 325i weighs 3,284 the Volt weights 3,547. The volume-to-weight ratio is 31.3 pounds per cu.ft., the Volt is 35.5. Pretty much in the same ball park. Yet, the Volt gets double the MPG the Bimmer gets.

[Car-Addicted]

The Volt has impressive numbers and yet discontinued so there is more to this than MPG or kWh statics.

Cost to Drive 25 Miles $1.16 (driving on elec only)
Cost to Drive 25 Miles $2.13 (driving on gas only)
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find...n=sbs&id=40924

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

The Volt has impressive numbers and yet discontinued so there is more to this than MPG or kWh statics.

Cost to Drive 25 Miles $1.16 (driving on elec only)
Cost to Drive 25 Miles $2.13 (driving on gas only)
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find...n=sbs&id=40924

Yes, discontinued because most people don't understand how hybrids work. My original point.

And libs hate GM...

IIRC, the 2nd Gen Volt gets 50 MPG in gas mode. Electric/gas MPG is somewhere around 75 MPG. Obviously it depends on the use mix.

[G30M]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

The Volt has impressive numbers and yet discontinued so there is more to this than MPG or kWh statics.

Cost to Drive 25 Miles $1.16 (driving on elec only)
Cost to Drive 25 Miles $2.13 (driving on gas only)
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find...n=sbs&id=40924

OTOH Toyota hybrids are so popular the wait list to buy them can be upto a year or more

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Yes, discontinued because most people don't understand how hybrids work. My original point.

We are about to see hybrid sales triple precisely because most people don't understand how hybrids work.
I do understand how most hybrids work which is why I'm so disappointed in the current offerings.

[G30M]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Yes, discontinued because most people don't understand how hybrids work. My original point.

And libs hate GM...

IIRC, the 2nd Gen Volt gets 50 MPG in gas mode. Electric/gas MPG is somewhere around 75 MPG. Obviously it depends on the use mix.

maybe people understand how Toyota hybrids work, they are so popular the wait list to buy them can be upto a year or more

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by G30M

maybe people understand how Toyota hybrids work, they are so popular the wait list to buy them can be upto a year or more

I'd bet it's more just the Toyota name. Toyota didn't invent the parallel hybrid technology, TRW did back in 1972. TRW tried to sell the technology to the Big Three US manufacturers but it was an idea before it's time. And Toyota didn't invent the plug-in hybrid, it was a counter to the Chevrolet Volt.

Outside of the series hybrid architecture (no one makes one yet) I always liked Honda's IMA. It always made the most sense to me design wise. The battery tech sucked so bad back in 1997 when it was developed it was compromised.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by G30M

maybe people understand how Toyota hybrids work, they are so popular the wait list to buy them can be upto a year or more

I rented a RAV4 Hybrid in Australia where gas is about double the price it is in the USA. This fucking thing held 5 people and a ton of shite in comfort and got a SOLID 45MPG with no effort on my behalf as it behaved basically like a normal car. That's about half the fuel suckage of a normal RAV4.

[G30M]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

I rented a RAV4 Hybrid in Australia where gas is about double the price it is in the USA. This fucking thing held 5 people and a ton of shite in comfort and got a SOLID 45MPG with no effort on my behalf as it behaved basically like a normal car. That's about half the fuel suckage of a normal RAV4.

i can't even buy this car where i am, and people who have them are selling them for more than retail, used.

maybe that's why

it's ok, i got myself a 600hp EV for 40% off list

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by G30M

i can't even buy this car where i am, and people who have them are selling them for more than retail, used.

maybe that's why

it's ok, i got myself a 600hp EV for 40% off list

I checked the two Toyota dealers nearest to me. 19 Rav4 hybrids in stock. Mid-$30K.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by G30M

maybe people understand how Toyota hybrids work, they are so popular the wait list to buy them can be upto a year or more

That sucks.

[GhostyM]

Originally Posted by G30M

i can't even buy this car where i am, and people who have them are selling them for more than retail, used.

maybe that's why

it's ok, i got myself a 600hp EV for 40% off list

This is the best part of owning EV's nowadays.

You can get 120k+ MSRP EV's for like 500-700 a month with little to no down on a lease. Drive it for 2-3 years, rinse and repeat if you want a fast/low cost to own daily. RS Etron/E-tron/EQS to name a few examples.

Some might say "there is nothing cheap about paying 500-700 a month for a lease" But when you get reminded that "gas" is typically free with most of these (Mercedes offer free charging for TWO years). It cuts that payment down to essentially a Kia lease - effectively paying $200 a month for a 100K+ car.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by GhostyM

This is the best part of owning EV's nowadays.

You can get 120k+ MSRP EV's for like 500-700 a month with little to no down on a lease. Drive it for 2-3 years, rinse and repeat if you want a fast/low cost to own daily. RS Etron/E-tron/EQS to name a few examples.

Some might say "there is nothing cheap about paying 500-700 a month for a lease" But when you get reminded that "gas" is typically free with most of these (Mercedes offer free charging for TWO years). It cuts that payment down to essentially a Kia lease - effectively paying $200 a month for a 100K+ car.

How much do you pay a month for gas!? If I fill up my X5 twice in a month that's a ton, lol.

How does the free charging work? Do you tell them your electric rate and they get logs from your home charger? Or is it like a "come to our dealer or some affiliated charge station and charge.flr free" which I would never do.

The e tron GT is gorgeous, I would absolutely have considered leasing one of those at 500-700 a month with no money down.

EDIT: I looked. 7k down on a base e tron GT is 700/month. Th RS model that one would actually want is like $1500 a month for a lease. No thanks.