[boyce'06 330i]

Originally Posted by BMWE90

If this is true then maybe it's the Sun's temperature that's increasing, not Earth's. Maybe as the Sun gets older it gets hotter...

Stars typically implode as they age. Their gravity becomes so great that the star actually decreases in size, folding in on itself, compacting and burning hotter and brighter as it nears implosion and becomes a black hole. Our sun has been undergoing this process since it formed, just like most any other star. This past October, pictures of the sun's surface show some of the most explosive coronal mass ejections and solar flares in a long time. You may have noticed some interference in radio, TV and cell phone signals for several days after the blasts! The next 5 years will show substantially increased surface activity on our sun. I don't think we have anything to do with that either, but some will probably say we do!

[BMW F22]

Originally Posted by boyce'06 330i

Stars typically implode as they age. Their gravity becomes so great that the star actually decreases in size, folding in on itself, compacting and burning hotter and brighter as it nears implosion and becomes a black hole. Our sun has been undergoing this process since it formed, just like most any other star. This past October, pictures of the sun's surface show some of the most explosive coronal mass ejections and solar flares in a long time. You may have noticed some interference in radio, TV and cell phone signals for several days after the blasts! The next 5 years will show substantially increased surface activity on our sun. I don't think we have anything to do with that either, but some will probably say we do!

Yeah when they explode they can become dwarves.
Based on what you're saying, it seems that maybe the Sun really does have something to do with global warming. Maybe the cause is external, not internal.

[boyce'06 330i]

Originally Posted by dr325i

Ah, you're right, only Dems manipulate the data...you're completely right.
That is why are we where we are today with the Republicans showing the "real" data...
This Hurricane in Europe is every year's occurence (?), Katrina happens every other year (?). Did the DC Area get snow this year, so far??? Did the Satellite photos lie, too (Greenland, Antartica...)??? Get real, man.

The Earth goes through the cycles and that is normal, however, it has NEVER gone through one like this, and it has never reached the temerature (and CO2 levels) like now...

So, yes, it is the men's fault for all that...

Isn't data manipulation great? Katrina, the hurricane, wasn't that bad, pretty typical, really, for a gulf hurricane. But you would have people believe it's an abnormal weather phenomenon that did all the damage, when in reality, it was the wrong place at the wrong time. New Orleans geography, infrastructure, and poor planning (planning that should have been done by the democrats in office) were it's worst enemy, not the storm!

Maybe DC hasn't had snow yet this year, big deal. I remember getting 6 inches of snow in Louisiana while growing up and people thought that was global cooling! I wonder what they're thinking in Vegas right now where they've had snow and below freezing temps for the last week?

[BiggieJ]

Originally Posted by spydrz

I have a Master's degree, so I've been to college. That solves that problem. But propaganda is what it is, and I call it as such.

you may have higher education but youre letting your political affiliation cloud your judgment. why is it that when the term "global warming" shows up, its dismissed as political propaganda/agenda? I could really care less if the scientific data is presented by a democrat or republican or even a gay/lesbian minority, the point is, data is data. its a fact.

true, you can manipulate data to emphasize/distort certain points but what evidence/data is out there neglecting global warming? all scientists agree that global warming is a man-made/accelerated phenomenon. why not just face the fact that we, as the human race are a powerful force that can alter the earth’s natural weather cycles. and with that much power comes that much responsibility.

all the debate over global warming i seem to hear is: look heres the date to prove global warming is a reality and a threat vs. its just political propaganda. if it is just propaganda than show me some data to back it up. What im trying to say is we need to get over our petty differences (i.e. political affiliation) and pay attention to what the facts are and do what we can to help our future generations.

[BiggieJ]

Originally Posted by boyce'06 330i

Isn't data manipulation great? Katrina, the hurricane, wasn't that bad, pretty typical, really, for a gulf hurricane. But you would have people believe it's an abnormal weather phenomenon that did all the damage, when in reality, it was the wrong place at the wrong time. New Orleans geography, infrastructure, and poor planning (planning that should have been done by the democrats in office) were it's worst enemy, not the storm!

Maybe DC hasn't had snow yet this year, big deal. I remember getting 6 inches of snow in Louisiana while growing up and people thought that was global cooling! I wonder what they're thinking in Vegas right now where they've had snow and below freezing temps for the last week?

this is from Wikipedia:

"Hurricane Katrina was the costliest and one of the deadliest hurricanes in the history of the United States. It was the sixth-strongest Atlantic hurricane ever recorded and the third-strongest landfalling U.S. hurricane on record."

wasnt that bad? pretty typical? and you just had to throw in the "poor democratic planning" also...when was the last time democrats were in office? when was New Orleans planned and built? yes its the all-evil democrats up to no good. again lets ignore the realty and dismiss it as propaganda.

is it all warm and fuzzy? you know, the world you live in?

[astra]

global warming... no matter if it is or isn't, the weather has not been right in australia... this summer has been much more tolerable then normal, the summer has been a bit cooler, while last winter was warm... very strange!

Haha, maybee it is the apocolypse!! people fighting, wars, bloodshed, warm temperatures, starvation... we are all going to die! lol

[DFW_M]

Originally Posted by boyce'06 330i

Isn't data manipulation great? Katrina, the hurricane, wasn't that bad, pretty typical, really, for a gulf hurricane. But you would have people believe it's an abnormal weather phenomenon that did all the damage, when in reality, it was the wrong place at the wrong time. New Orleans geography, infrastructure, and poor planning (planning that should have been done by the democrats in office) were it's worst enemy, not the storm!

Maybe DC hasn't had snow yet this year, big deal. I remember getting 6 inches of snow in Louisiana while growing up and people thought that was global cooling! I wonder what they're thinking in Vegas right now where they've had snow and below freezing temps for the last week?

You just don't get it...
You're so stuck on this political propaganda and the data manipulation...

It is not Katrina -- it is 5 of them in the same year, same location, similar strength --> that means that if the conditions develop right, they can all evolve into these monsters = the water (Gulf) is warmer.

The ecosystems are relocating -- the animals that have never peaked far north are now further up north than ever = warmer north, they move up...

I lived in Europe for 20 years and it never happened to have 160 kmh winds in UK/Germany...
In central Europe, the temp has not fallen below 55F so far this season, usually it is covered with snow. Actually, they did not have much snow in last 5 years...occasional snow that melts within 3 days...
I remember growing up over there when we had snow that lasted for months...

I could see the data being twisted the other way for the financial and political gains, but why would anyone in a right mind do it this way???

[boyce'06 330i]

Originally Posted by BiggieJ

this is from Wikipedia:

"Hurricane Katrina was the costliest and one of the deadliest hurricanes in the history of the United States. It was the sixth-strongest Atlantic hurricane ever recorded and the third-strongest landfalling U.S. hurricane on record."

wasnt that bad? pretty typical? and you just had to throw in the "poor democratic planning" also...when was the last time democrats were in office? when was New Orleans planned and built? yes its the all-evil democrats up to no good. again lets ignore the realty and dismiss it as propaganda.

is it all warm and fuzzy? you know, the world you live in?

Costliest and deadliest: Absolutely! Never in question. And, true, it did reach CAT5 intensity in the Gulf, but weakened to CAT3 before making landfall... still a stong hurricane. It also had the 4th lowest pressure ever recorded (907mb - out in the Gulf) it was also a huge storm in area and mass. The wind damage from Katrina was on par with a CAT3 storm, it was the rain damage from the sheer size of the storm that New Orleans couldn't deal with.

[boyce'06 330i]

Originally Posted by BiggieJ

"and you just had to throw in the "poor democratic planning" also...when was the last time democrats were in office? when was New Orleans planned and built? yes its the all-evil democrats up to no good. again lets ignore the realty and dismiss it as propaganda.

Democrats have controlled local and national Louisiana government for some time... I grew up there. Those in local offices should be held responsible for the infrastructure in NO.

[DFW_M]

Originally Posted by boyce'06 330i

Democrats have controlled local and national Louisiana government for some time... I grew up there. Those in local offices should be held responsible for the infrastructure in NO.

LONG LIVE (Bush's idea) FEMA!
Democrats are responsible for everything from the economy downturn, 911, fiasco in Iraq, Katrina and NO fiasco to Global Warming.

I vote that Reps should be in forever so this whole crap is over in 20 years....we start the wars in every country, and we burn when the average AAugust temp hits 180F

[zeebeda]

I just quickly skimmed everyone's opinions on this topic, and so I figured I'd put in my two cents.

I'm not really sure what is happening, but it is very obvious there is something weird taking place. I live in Alabama, and it has been the weirdest winter I have ever experienced. Normally it is between 30 and 40 degrees F during winter; this year it started off very cold (20s-30s) then suddenly shifted to abnormally hot (70s-80s) for several weeks. After about four weeks of warm weather, it shifted to cold again almost over night.

My dad is a chemical engineer specializing in environmental research at a company called SRI (www.sri.org). He and some of his co-workers have been doing reseach on this topic for about a year, and they are still unsure of the cause.

1 - Global warming is a natural occurring event, but that doesn't fully explain all of the anomalous events that have been happening such as snow in LA and Las Vegas.

2 - Global shifting. Instead of just rotating on axis, maybe Earth is also in a spinning type motion where it rotates slowly from north to south as well (like a stereo-rotational sort of thing - yes I think I just made that word up, but it fits the situation). This would eventually lead to the changing of the poles, but probably not until several thousand years.

I know am not as educated on this topic as much as someone who has done research on it and is a little older, as I am only 19 and still in college. I just know little bits of information that I've heard my dad mention whenever I visit home.

[UncleWede]

There are LOTS of changes in the Earth over the past years. Check out how rapidly the poles are shifting. Yes, the sun may be moving into a stage where we feel more heat (it normally expands before it will shrink back down, I think the typical projection is that the corona will engulf Mercury and maybe Venus before shrinking back down). And yes there is a definate influence from the actions of Man. I know some people who are not strictly speaking scientist but very aware of the Earth and it's surroundings. They tell me the position of whole constellations has rapidly changed lately, seeming to coincide with dramatic changes in weather.
ICe dropped down to almost Florida about 10,000 years ago, then retreated back to the polar caps.

So what are YOU doing to help? I wander my house, constantly turning off lights and TVs and things left on, to help in some small fashion to reduce my CO2 burden. I TRY to recycle and use things past their cool stage, I still have a tube TV set that I bought at least 15 years ago, because it still works great. Now if I could just quit losing my cell phones. . .

[boyce'06 330i]

Originally Posted by dr325i

LONG LIVE (Bush's idea) FEMA!
Democrats are responsible for everything from the economy downturn, 911, fiasco in Iraq, Katrina and NO fiasco to Global Warming.

I vote that Reps should be in forever so this whole crap is over in 20 years....we start the wars in every country, and we burn when the average AAugust temp hits 180F

I was responding to BiggieJ's question about Dems in office in Louisiana, my point being, they have dominated the political scene in LA since Huey Long (and maybe before, but that was before my time ).

FYI, I'm not Rep or Dem, but I am conservative and vote that way. Difference between you and me, is I don't think humans, and Americans in particular, are the cause of all the world's troubles. I love this country and respect the people who built it and fight, or have fought, for it (including my dad [born Canadian], every Uncle I've met on both sides of my family and some of my Aunts), and I try to repay them by respecting the ideals this country was founded on, not trashing them every chance I get.

[DFW_M]

Originally Posted by boyce'06 330i

I was responding to BiggieJ's question about Dems in office in Louisiana, my point being, they have dominated the political scene in LA since Huey Long (and maybe before, but that was before my time ).

FYI, I'm not Rep or Dem, but I am conservative and vote that way. Difference between you and me, is I don't think humans, and Americans in particular, are the cause of all the world's troubles. I love this country and respect the people who built it and fight, or have fought, for it (including my dad [born Canadian], every Uncle I've met on both sides of my family and some of my Aunts), and I try to repay them by respecting the ideals this country was founded on, not trashing them every chance I get.

First of all, the difference is much greater than that...
Second is that you do not distinguish between trashing the Admin and the people of this (my) country, and soldiers belong to the second group. Soldiers and people really fighting for this country are doing their job and they are doing a damn good job. All I ever pointed out was that the leaders of this country messed everything up...and not only Bush, but the ones before him, too (including Clinton for example...)

And finally, this thread should have NOTHING to do with the politics, or Americans, but everyone should be concerned about it. Coincidentally, we are the biggest poluters on this planned, followed by China, Russia, etc...but the reasons are different...

So, stop whining and reading my lines the way you WANT to read them, but the way they are written...

[Pedal2Floor]

Maybe I am just the old fart on the board but....

I remember in the 60's -- it was cool to talk about global warming

Then the 70s -- it was cool to talk about the coming ice age once again

Now again we are back again to -- "Global Warming" -- again!

In all cases it was all supported by hundreds of supposed experts and the pop-culture figure of the time.

So, is it global warming or the next ice age?

Maybe its just that the earth goes through a heating and cooling period. Maybe its the El Nino/El Nina influence. Penn and Teller did their own mythbusting in an episode about how much BullShit! some of this really is. For example, there are more trees today than when Louis and Clark explored the USA. My favorite was when they got 1000 people to sign a petition to rid the world of all Di-hydri Oxide -- the killer chemical that covers 80% of the earth. While Al is not all Bull his DVD is not all truth either -- he just leans it to the result he wants -- because "Lies, Damn Lies and Numbers" always go together. Gore uses an age old tactic of FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) backed up by claims of so called experts who have been wrong before.

The fact is -- somebody has an agenda. Al Gore and enviro-Democrates have an agenda and they will not stop until we all give a tree a big hug or we get taxed to crap like they do in Europe. Al also may want to run for President again -- sounds like a good way to get popular again.

Everyone makes a big deal about the Kyoto treaty and the US not being involved, well "NONE" of the nations that signed the accord have done anything either!! Germany who lead the way with bashing the USA has said they have not implemented any of the agreements because they were too expensive. Even if the USA cleans up its act (which I agree some things are definately necessary -- pisses me off how little we recycle) the rest of the world is not going to follow along -- why because it is too expensive. China and Asia in general is a mess. You can actually see the cloud of polution that drifts over the continent.

Instead of stupid agreements, the USA should create a program much like the space program of the 50s/60s in collaboration with other countries to find fuel efficient less poluting technologies. Screw the agreements, develop a program that churns out 100s of engineers and scientists to solve a problem and all contributing countries then get use the technology. Make it cool to be an engineer again.

As always, someplace between the hype and hysteria lies the truth. Al and his buddies don't have all right nor all wrong but now anyone who disagrees is the bad guy shutting down all decent -- which may be more dangerous than some of the half truths Gore has been talking about.

[boyce'06 330i]

Originally Posted by dr325i

First of all, the difference is much greater than that...
Second is that you do not distinguish between trashing the Admin and the people of this (my) country, and soldiers belong to the second group. Soldiers and people really fighting for this country are doing their job and they are doing a damn good job. All I ever pointed out was that the leaders of this country messed everything up...and not only Bush, but the ones before him, too (including Clinton for example...)

And finally, this thread should have NOTHING to do with the politics, or Americans, but everyone should be concerned about it. Coincidentally, we are the biggest poluters on this planned, followed by China, Russia, etc...but the reasons are different...

So, stop whining and reading my lines the way you WANT to read them, but the way they are written...

Okay.

Soon you won't have to worry about us, China will give off many times more C02 than we do.

[ScheerSpeed]

EVERYONE!!! GO RENT AN INCONVINIENT TRUTH!!!!! I WATCHED THIS ON MY SKIING TRIP AND I COULDNT SLEEP CAUSE I WAS SO FREAKED OUT!!!!!

caps intended

[ScheerSpeed]

an ice age wouldnt be too bad in miami. we would still be chillin in the sun

EDIT: might have to go to mexico or something

[Couch]

Originally Posted by ScheerSpeed

EVERYONE!!! GO RENT AN INCONVINIENT TRUTH!!!!! I WATCHED THIS ON MY SKIING TRIP AND I COULDNT SLEEP CAUSE I WAS SO FREAKED OUT!!!!!

caps intended

Don't believe everything you see on a video screen. Not saying there aren't any facts in the movie, but it's far from factual.

By the way N.O. is also sinking by the day. There was an article in Newsweek a few months back. I believe that's the magazine I read it in.

[DFW_M]

Originally Posted by boyce'06 330i

Okay.

Soon you won't have to worry about us, China will give off many times more C02 than we do.

I agree with that.
However, we should be the ones to set the example...

[boyce'06 330i]

Originally Posted by dr325i

I agree with that.
However, we should be the ones to set the example...

Ah, finally something I can agree with...

[BMW F22]

I saw "an inconvinient truth" a few months back and I'd have to say it did open my eyes. While it didnt scare the crap out of me, it served its purpose as to raise my level of awareness for the environment.

I find it interesting that we've never talked about it until after the movie came out. It did what it was supposed to do.