[KingOfJericho]

I guess I see your point.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

I guess I see your point.

Don't let me kill your dreams that easily!

[blutattoo]

I love the wagon, much better looking than a standard sedan imho. Plus I love the thought of kicking ass in a total sleeper.

And I agree with wanting the manual too. I think the cts-v with a manual is freakin awesome from a driving standpoint even if it is slightly ugly. I've seen one at the track and it's awesome watching him pass Porsche's and Vette's.

[KingOfJericho]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Don't let me kill your dreams that easily!

My parents still drive manual SUVs and sedans and they're in their 60s. My dream isn't dead - I'm standing by the notion that a twin-turbo V8 wagon with a full carbon interior is a sports car for a guy who's wife instructed him that his car had to fit the kids and her luggage. If this kind of poise and power is not for sport, then what the hell IS it for? Sports cars come in many shapes and sizes and to me, they'll always be mated to a manual. That's just my feeling...

[KingOfJericho]

Originally Posted by blutattoo

And I agree with wanting the manual too. I think the cts-v with a manual is freakin awesome from a driving standpoint even if it is slightly ugly. I've seen one at the track and it's awesome watching him pass Porsche's and Vette's.

I looked at one pretty seriously before getting the S4 but just couldn't drop that much coin on a Caddy. I still LOVE that car and its design.

[Red Bread]

Yeah, I guess we see it differently. I assume your 135i and S4 (and GTI) are/were manuals? I just find heavy cars with flat torque curves to be sort of transmission agnostic. Meaning the auto/dsg option is usually as much or more fun than the manuals.

Give me a light, peaky rwd car with a manual, but I'm sort of mixed on heavier, awd, flat torque curved cars. Note that CTS-V is quicker with an automatic than a manual (as are the N54/N55 cars), not that I'd prefer the auto, but the advance of automatic transmissions, especially in conjunction with torque everywhere, is sort of making manuals look silly on most cars, even, sadly, the 991.

My 73 year old dad still drives a manual FD RX7 and has a Miata, and my mom had a manual Trooper until a few years ago.

[blutattoo]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Yeah, I guess we see it differently. I assume your 135i and S4 (and GTI) are/were manuals? I just find heavy cars with flat torque curves to be sort of transmission agnostic. Meaning the auto/dsg option is usually as much or more fun than the manuals.

Give me a light, peaky rwd car with a manual, but I'm sort of mixed on heavier, awd, flat torque curved cars. Note that CTS-V is quicker with an automatic than a manual (as are the N54/N55 cars), not that I'd prefer the auto, but the advance of automatic transmissions, especially in conjunction with torque everywhere, is sort of making manuals look silly on most cars, even, sadly, the 991.

My 73 year old dad still drives a manual FD RX7 and has a Miata, and my mom had a manual Trooper until a few years ago.

Quicker doesn't always equate to more fun.

It's not about how fast you go, but how much fun you have going fast. Couldn't imagine a 1 being better with a dct even if it beats me at a drag strip, but hey to each his own.

Both options should be available since they would have no issues selling either I'd guess.

I may be wrong, but I think the TTRS is manual only and the R8 has a manual option so it's not like they don't have the tranny in their parts bin.

Might have something to do with emissions and gas mileage is my guess, but I'd really consider it if it had a manual. I've always loved the RS4 avants.

[KingOfJericho]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Yeah, I guess we see it differently. I assume your 135i and S4 (and GTI) are/were manuals? I just find heavy cars with flat torque curves to be sort of transmission agnostic. Meaning the auto/dsg option is usually as much or more fun than the manuals.

Give me a light, peaky rwd car with a manual, but I'm sort of mixed on heavier, awd, flat torque curved cars. Note that CTS-V is quicker with an automatic than a manual (as are the N54/N55 cars), not that I'd prefer the auto, but the advance of automatic transmissions, especially in conjunction with torque everywhere, is sort of making manuals look silly on most cars, even, sadly, the 991.

My 73 year old dad still drives a manual FD RX7 and has a Miata, and my mom had a manual Trooper until a few years ago.

I've only owned one auto car and it was a Saab in college and I swore I would never own another. I've held to that thus far. I've said this many times in many threads but I don't care if it's faster. Driving is about involvement. If the car didn't have a steering wheel because satellite technology advanced to the point that cars guided themselves more accurately than a conventional wheel, wouldn't that also decrease driver involvement in a similar manner? Driving, to me, should involve all of my limbs - not just my left hand and right foot.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

I've only owned one auto car and it was a Saab in college and I swore I would never own another. I've held to that thus far. I've said this many times in many threads but I don't care if it's faster. Driving is about involvement. If the car didn't have a steering wheel because satellite technology advanced to the point that cars guided themselves more accurately than a conventional wheel, wouldn't that also decrease driver involvement in a similar manner? Driving, to me, should involve all of my limbs - not just my left hand and right foot.

Just continuing the thread hijack. I agree, but also find that auto and DSG boxes have become so much better over the last three to five years that if your only perception of them is dated, you should try the newer batch. As I said, I'll always have something in the garage with the proper amount of pedals, but my wife's cars have taught me that two pedal cars can still be very entertaining, in a way that older cars just didn't seem to be capable of. Most of it has to do with the current trend of diesel like torque curves, but rev matching, quick shifts and the ability to focus more on the racing line and maintaining momentum is a nice advantage too. Somewhat sadly, it looks like the 991 GT3 will be going the flappy paddle route too.

In related news, this thread has reminded me to look for CTS-V wagon with all three pedals. It doesn't make any sense as my daily driver, and the engine would probably never get to operating temperature, but it just seems like part of dying breed and I think I need to own my own little piece of that.

[KingOfJericho]

Getting back on topic... I still want this thing. It's the best looking wagon I've ever seen.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

Getting back on topic... I still want this thing. It's the best looking wagon I've ever seen.

If Porsche builds the Panamera Wagon, it will likely have an available manual.

[blutattoo]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

Getting back on topic... I still want this thing. It's the best looking wagon I've ever seen.

+1 Definitely great looking car

[Crypty]

Please tell me it doesn't really have a giant "quattro" across the front.

I like the seats.

[swanson]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

If Porsche builds the Panamera Wagon, it will likely have an available manual.

The panamera already is a wagon

[hks786]

Originally Posted by swanson

Enough with the wagon only RS6. Grow some balls, and bring it to the US in sedan form and compete with the rest of the world.

Yes I agree.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by swanson

The panamera already is a wagon

The Panamera is a hideous hatchback. This concept is a wagon:

[Fox128i]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

I still want this thing. It's the best looking wagon I've ever seen.

Sums up my thoughts to a tee. Love it!

[RON1X]

that is one bad ass wagon.

[swanson]

Originally Posted by hks786

Yes I agree.

Much better. Now ship it to the US.

[Hula-Hula]

[NemesisX]

The problem with a traditional manual transmission is that it doesn't do anything well anymore (other than give people a greater sense of involvement).

It's slower around the track compared to paddle shifting variants. It gets worse gas mileage (on average) than most automatic transmissions.

It's great for people who willingly want to be slower around a track in exchange for performing unnecessary and extraneous maneuvers. It provides a "video game" feel to driving.

There seems to be a lot of outcry about the lack of manual transmission on most car forums, but the corresponding sales figures never seem to match. BMW is already scrapping the traditional manual transmission for its next M5. Developing a traditional manual transmission M5 for all of the 7 people who want it just isn't a financially sensible option anymore. It's costing them money.

Ferrari has already caught on and eliminated the traditional manual transmission from its lineup years ago.

Porsche is a little slower on the uptake, possibly because there are sufficient numbers of traditional MT enthusiasts among Porsche owners to make it financially viable.

[blutattoo]

Originally Posted by NemesisX

The problem with a traditional manual transmission is that it doesn't do anything well anymore (other than give people a greater sense of involvement).

It's slower around the track compared to paddle shifting variants. It gets worse gas mileage (on average) than most automatic transmissions.

It's great for people who willingly want to be slower around a track in exchange for performing unnecessary and extraneous maneuvers. It provides a "video game" feel to driving.

There seems to be a lot of outcry about the lack of manual transmission on most car forums, but the corresponding sales figures never seem to match. BMW is already scrapping the traditional manual transmission for its next M5. Developing a traditional manual transmission M5 for all of the 7 people who want it just isn't a financially sensible option anymore. It's costing them money.

Ferrari has already caught on and eliminated the traditional manual transmission from its lineup years ago.

Porsche is a little slower on the uptake, possibly because there are sufficient numbers of traditional MT enthusiasts among Porsche owners to make it financially viable.

Those transmissions you're talking about are not automatic transmissions, they are dual clutch transmissions that have an automatic mode. In order to reap the benefits you mention on the track they must be operated in a manual mode which requires the driver to shift. The car mentioned in the post doesn't have either. It would source the existing six-speed auto already in use. Automatic cars on a track are lame, dual clutch cars on a track are fast and for the most part fun, traditional manuals on a track take skill and driver involvement to master, thus the reason purists still like them.

Hey not everybody can drive a manual the right way nor do some people even care about driver involvement. Those that can and do might prefer to be fully engaged rather than shaving .5 sec off a lap at 10/10ths.

As for video game driving, last time I checked an xbox or ps3 controller was only controlled by your hands. Sounds a lot like those other transmissions you were talking about.

Bring the RS6 avant in a manual and I will buy one, even if I am one of the 7 people left on earth who prefer one. That thing is awesome.