[johanness]

"Authorities said the man appeared to be on several medications"

Give that man a few more guns

[bbbbmw]

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

I'm tired of these neo-con psychos claiming that anyone would have just blown the kid away. All articles of this story have implied that the father had the kid at gun point and was engaging in an argument. At this point, unless this unarmed, half naked kid charges at him and he feels his life in danger, he cannot simply blow him away even in gun crazy Texas.

Texas Penal Code §9.31 (governing the justified use of non-deadly force) and§9.32 (governing the justified use of deadly force) Inside your "castle," under certain circumstances, Texas law presumes you acted reasonably and justifiably if you use force or deadly force to defend yourself against an intruder who enters your occupied habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment.

Castle Doctrine does NOT give you carte blanche to use deadly force merely because someone is on your property. It never has. Many people think that the law allows you to use deadly force against a mere trespasser. In fact, Texas law says the exact opposite. Texas Penal Code §9.41 allows you to use force, not deadly force, that is reasonably necessary to prevent or terminate another's trespass on your land.

So if a scared kid, whom you have a weapon trained on, and whom you suspect of recently sexing up your daughter in your house, is standing in your daughter's room, it's up to you to ask him to leave, call his parents, call the police, etc to get him out of there. Once you have your weapon trained, unless the kid charges with intent to harm or kill, you are no longer protected by castle doctrine in the use of deadly force.

Gun owners have a responsibility to know and learn the laws that govern the use of deadly force. It's because of neo-con, violent idiots, who think shooting anything that moves dead, that liberal gun control laws get passed in this country, and why the 2nd amendment is constantly under attack by liberal idiots like the Feinsteins and Piers Morgans of the world. Stop being a violent caveman, and realize that gun ownership is a right that the forefathers granted to us as a responsibility, the responsibility to bear arms so we could defend ourselves in the case of a government that has gone tyrannical, such was the case before and during the war for Independence. Treat gun ownership with some respect, not like a child who has a new toy.

The excuse that "he reached for something on the ground" sounds highly suspicious to me. This isn't an open and shut case by any means, and this guy is going to probably have charges pressed against him once the dust settles. Everything about this screams "angry father exacting revenge for kid fucking his daughter".

Not sure how/why you are using the term "neo-con?"

The article I read said that a 4-year old sibling told his sister goodnight, and noticed shoes sticking out from under her bed. He told his father, who took a gun into the bedroom and confronted the boyfriend, whom his daughter denied knowing. The father told the kid not to move, and yet he dropped his hands as if reaching for a weapon. Nothing I read said the kid was half-naked (nor what he was wearing), nothing about the kid being scared (he may well have been belligerent, as he dropped his hands during their altercation despite having a gun pointed at him) - only that he was under the bed, as described by the 4 year old.

There aren't nearly enough facts in the news to draw the conclusions for your rant against Texas. If you see an intruder in your home in Laguna Beach, you should just ask him to wait while you call police, with your 4 and 16 year old kids in the room, and two others somewhere else in the house.

[Devious21]

Originally Posted by schoy

Also (again assuming the story is true):

There were only 2 witnesses here: the dad and the daughter. They had presumably a common interest to protect the family; they could have easily concocted a story that would have absolved the dad of all blame (boy breaks into house to be with daughter; daughter had no idea boy would try that; dad catches boy in act, thinking it is intruder; dad shoots boy). But the story that does come out points two one of 2 things (or perhaps both):

1) Dad and daughter aren't the sharpest tools in the shed;

2) Dad and daughter had a falling out, probably over the boy.

There also could have been texts proving the girl asked the boy to come over. A quick way to jail is to get caught lying to the police about how a shooting happened.

[ItsHectic]

I didnt know this sort of thing would be news in Texas...

[Nkc]

is race gonna play into this again?

[Billup]

Too much missing information to start a whole bunch of speculation. Who knows how the kid was respondent to the father and the girl claims to not know who the boy was (would throw a red flag to any dad).

I wonder how this will play out. Pulling a gun seems a little extreme, but you really can't be too sure anymore. Even the most unlikely can be the most aggressive.

[WreckerX5d]

Anything could be possible with this case. No one knows, but them, what really happened.

I don't think there is enough information for us to read to determine a possible outcome. We all can agree the media sometimes doesn't tell the whole report as well.

[Maestro]

Keep in mind, the girl may have not know the guy, may she picked him up somewhere and brought him home. How many guys brought a girl home and had no clue what her name was the next day. She may have not been lie so to say.

[grimlock]

^That would be one brave/whorish 16yr girl picking up random boys n bringing them home.

My take:
Boy wants pussy, girl is a bitch, dad thinks his little girl can do no wrong. Dad shoots horny boy.
Boy shouldn't have been so horny, girl shouldn't be a lying bitch, dad shouldn't be so blind to his/her faults.

[Joekerr]

Originally Posted by Nkc

is race gonna play into this again?

I don't believe so - I think one of the comments I read said that both the father and the boy that got shot were black.

I don't know the source of that though, just what I recall reading. And I'm guessing if it was a different race the media would have been all over that, especially if the father was white and the boy was any other race.

[Billup]

Originally Posted by Joekerr

I don't believe so - I think one of the comments I read said that both the father and the boy that got shot were black.

I don't know the source of that though, just what I recall reading. And I'm guessing if it was a different race the media would have been all over that, especially if the father was white and the boy was any other race.

Would have caught a lot more attention if it were different races. Hell, a simple comparison can throw a race flag, let alone another Treyvon Martin case.

[Litos]

and just like that, race has reared it's head.....

continue folks......

[MediaArtist]

Originally Posted by bbbbmw

Not sure how/why you are using the term "neo-con?"

When I think of neo conservatisim, and then think "Hmm, would these be the type of jerks who would shoot first, ask questions later?" It seems a very easy connection to make, though admittedly, mostly tongue-in-cheek.

There aren't nearly enough facts in the news to draw the conclusions for your rant against Texas.

Who said I was "ranting against Texas"? I certainly never criticized Texas as a state. You may have missed the point because this isn't about Texas, this is about people knowing the proper application of deadly force. Just judging by this thread, very few people actually know the laws that govern deadly force in their own state. As for facts...

The article I read said that a 4-year old sibling told his sister goodnight, and noticed shoes sticking out from under her bed. He told his father, who took a gun into the bedroom and confronted the boyfriend, whom his daughter denied knowing. The father told the kid not to move, and yet he dropped his hands as if reaching for a weapon. Nothing I read said the kid was half-naked (nor what he was wearing), nothing about the kid being scared (he may well have been belligerent, as he dropped his hands during their altercation despite having a gun pointed at him) - only that he was under the bed, as described by the 4 year old.

The article you read is complete bullshit (excuse my French), and full of piss poor reporting. All the major news outlets have reported these facts (CNN, Fox, USA Today):
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/03/15...urder-charges/
http://www.khou.com/news/local/Deput...250041711.html

1) The girl was DATING Johran.
2) The girl let Johran into the home.
3) The father heard "sounds" coming from the bedroom (not some made up story about a 4 year old kid seeing feet under the bed), and went to investigate. Let's be honest, the sounds were sex sounds.
4) The father went to confront the teenager with GUN DRAWN.
5) The father caught Johran in bed with his daughter. He got out and was to the side of the bed.
6) Some dialog occurred, perhaps arguing (no exact details). I'm guessing the boy was trying to let the guy know who let him in the house and why he wasn't some random intruder.
7) The father CLAIMS Johran made a sudden movement with his hands.

The last part is highly suspect since Johran didn't have any weapon on him when police carted his body away from the house.

So which has the ring of truth?

1) Johran, not scared of a man with a loaded weapon pointed at his head, reaches for a PHANTOM weapon he doesn't have, and ends up getting himself shot.

2) Johran, afraid of a man with a loaded weapon, gets shot by an angry father who wants to hurt a boy who just fucked his daughter.

If you see an intruder in your home in Laguna Beach, you should just ask him to wait while you call police, with your 4 and 16 year old kids in the room, and two others somewhere else in the house.

Of course I would call the police. Unlike the neo-con hill billies in the South, I don't shoot first, ask questions later. I have a loaded 9mm pistol by the bed stand in a digital safe that I pull out. I assess the situation. I make sure my kids and wife are safe and out of harms way. You see, it's more important to me that my family is safe, and protected, than it is for me to fill someone full of bullets so I can scream "Yee haw!" and tell my friends about how I capped someone at the local dive bar. The right to own a gun is a responsibility, and the laws that govern deadly force in California and Texas are very clear. I wish the neo-con warhawks knew this, and treated gun ownership with respect instead of like a child's toy.

[Templar]

I read an article on the internet. I know everything.

[MediaArtist]

Originally Posted by Maestro

Keep in mind, the girl may have not know the guy, may she picked him up somewhere and brought him home. How many guys brought a girl home and had no clue what her name was the next day. She may have not been lie so to say.

It is a lie. She knew him, even if it was only from a night out at the club. She invited him into her house, that's all that matters to the law. Saying "I don't know who this guy is" when her father has a weapon trained on him is not only a lie, it's a lie that possibly caused his death.

[Maestro]

First let keep in mind we are getting the information from the media which we all know make up storied to fill in the gaps in the facts. Next, the people claiming the girl said she did not know the kid, was the parents of the kid who got shot, they claim that this is what they were told they are also claim their son was dating this girl, obviously daddy did not know this fact. It is all hearsay.

So all we know at this point is the daddy shot a guy in his daughter room. In the state of TX if you are in someone's home without permission of the owner you run the risk of being shot.

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

When I think of neo conservatisim, and then think "Hmm, would these be the type of jerks who would shoot first, ask questions later?" It seems a very easy connection to make, though admittedly, mostly tongue-in-cheek.


Who said I was "ranting against Texas"? I certainly never criticized Texas as a state. You may have missed the point because this isn't about Texas, this is about people knowing the proper application of deadly force. Just judging by this thread, very few people actually know the laws that govern deadly force in their own state. As for facts...



The article you read is complete bullshit (excuse my French), and full of piss poor reporting. All the major news outlets have reported these facts (CNN, Fox, USA Today):
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/03/15...urder-charges/
http://www.khou.com/news/local/Deput...250041711.html

1) The girl was DATING Johran.
2) The girl let Johran into the home.
3) The father heard "sounds" coming from the bedroom (not some made up story about a 4 year old kid seeing feet under the bed), and went to investigate. Let's be honest, the sounds were sex sounds.
4) The father went to confront the teenager with GUN DRAWN.
5) The father caught Johran in bed with his daughter. He got out and was to the side of the bed.
6) Some dialog occurred, perhaps arguing (no exact details). I'm guessing the boy was trying to let the guy know who let him in the house and why he wasn't some random intruder.
7) The father CLAIMS Johran made a sudden movement with his hands.

The last part is highly suspect since Johran didn't have any weapon on him when police carted his body away from the house.

So which has the ring of truth?

1) Johran, not scared of a man with a loaded weapon pointed at his head, reaches for a PHANTOM weapon he doesn't have, and ends up getting himself shot.

2) Johran, afraid of a man with a loaded weapon, gets shot by an angry father who wants to hurt a boy who just fucked his daughter.



Of course I would call the police. Unlike the neo-con hill billies in the South, I don't shoot first, ask questions later. I have a loaded 9mm pistol by the bed stand in a digital safe that I pull out. I assess the situation. I make sure my kids and wife are safe and out of harms way. You see, it's more important to me that my family is safe, and protected, than it is for me to fill someone full of bullets so I can scream "Yee haw!" and tell my friends about how I capped someone at the local dive bar. The right to own a gun is a responsibility, and the laws that govern deadly force in California and Texas are very clear. I wish the neo-con warhawks knew this, and treated gun ownership with respect instead of like a child's toy.

I fully agree with you about the use of a firearm being the very last resort of any type of confrontation and should only be used to protect lives from someone with intent to do harm.

But after reading your first quoted source i've got big problems with you post.

The father who police said fatally shot a 17-year-old boy in his daughter's bedroom should be charged with murder, the victim's distraught mother says.

Johran McCormick's mother said she can't believe her son was killed while sneaking around with the 16-year–old girl he was apparently dating, the Houston Chronicle reported Saturday.

Zakia McCormick also can't understand why the man accused of firing the fatal shot Thursday is not behind bars.

"If you take a life, you give your life"
- Zakia McCormick

"If you take a life, you give your life," the newspaper quoted a teary Zakia McCormick as saying. "We're suffering. Why isn't he suffering too?"
She and the teen's father Shawn Curley said the man should be charged with murder and sentenced to life behind bars.

The Harris County Sheriff's Office is investigating the shooting and has said a grand jury will determine if charges are warranted.
Although a grand jury will review the case, prosecutor Warren Diepraam told MyFoxHouston.com Friday that it is unlikely that the father will be charged.

The father told investigators he heard noises coming from his daughter’s bedroom around 2:30 a.m. He went to investigate and found Johran in the room. The boy was shot once.

Zakia McCormick and Curley told the Chronicle they believe Johran was in bed with the girl when her father came into her bedroom with a gun.

The family said they were told by authorities and others the girl denied she knew Johran—sparking the deadly confrontation.

"I wished the father could have asked more questions, he could have picked up the phone," Curley told the newspaper. "And for her to say she didn't know who he was, that was most hurtful."

Curley said he didn’t believe the shooting was an accident. “You don’t shoot someone in the head on accident,” he said..

The mom said she didn’t even know her son was in Houston at the time. She said he had gone to New Orleans with friends on spring break and wasn’t due to return until Sunday.

She also didn’t know Johran and the girl were dating.

"For him to be in someone else's house at 2:30 in the morning is shocking to us," said Curley.

i've bolded some key points that make it very clear the items you're pointing out to be fact are indeed speculation by the victims family. Who might i add didn't even know of his where a bouts at the time. Even the victims family found it shocking that their son was in someone else's house at 2:30 in the morning. Imagine how shocked the owner of that house was when he found out.

I would not be surprised if your version of the story was the correct one. But without knowing, preaching your theory of what happened as fact wins no one's favor.

Also, it's doubtful that he yelled "yee haw" after firing his weapon once. In contrast to "filling them full of bullets". And i'm sorry but your choice of words makes your post seem like it's a rant and quite derogatory to people who live in the south.

[Billup]

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

I fully agree with you about the use of a firearm being the very last resort of any type of confrontation and should only be used to protect lives from someone with intent to do harm.

But after reading your first quoted source i've got big problems with you post.

i've bolded some key points that make it very clear the items you're pointing out to be fact are indeed speculation by the victims family. Who might i add didn't even know of his where a bouts at the time. Even the victims family found it shocking that their son was in someone else's house at 2:30 in the morning. Imagine how shocked the owner of that house was when he found out.

I would not be surprised if your version of the story was the correct one. But without knowing, preaching your theory of what happened as fact wins no one's favor.

Also, it's doubtful that he yelled "yee haw" after firing his weapon once. In contrast to "filling them full of bullets". And i'm sorry but your choice of words makes your post seem like it's a rant and quite derogatory to people who live in the south.

I agree with all of your statements above. How could you not be shocked to find someone in your house at 2:30am that you have never seen in your life, let alone (possibly) in bed with your daughter? You don't know what they are capable of.

While he only fired once, who is to say that the kid didn't seem to reach for something that could potentially be a weapon? Obviously you wouldn't know until;
1. he pulled it out and shot you first or
2. you take them down out of concern

There is a lot of speculation and this could go many different directions, but with only words to go by and skewed media information, all we can do is guess, which is hardly going to solidify anyones view over another.

Was he right pulling the trigger? No.

Is it possible he saw a threat in his own home and acted out of fear if the kid did "reach" for something? Absolutely. What parent wouldn't?

[MediaArtist]

Originally Posted by Maestro

First let keep in mind we are getting the information from the media which we all know make up storied to fill in the gaps in the facts. Next, the people claiming the girl said she did not know the kid, was the parents of the kid who got shot, they claim that this is what they were told they are also claim their son was dating this girl, obviously daddy did not know this fact. It is all hearsay.

So all we know at this point is the daddy shot a guy in his daughter room. In the state of TX if you are in someone's home without permission of the owner you run the risk of being shot.

Yes the media can sometimes report incorrect facts, but unless anyone of the people here was actually in the room and saw everything that happened, it's all we can go by.

So far, every news outlet has reported that the girl first claimed that she didn't know the guy, then backtracked and admitted that she did know the guy. If that is true, she potentially caused a needless homicide.

[MediaArtist]

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

I fully agree with you about the use of a firearm being the very last resort of any type of confrontation and should only be used to protect lives from someone with intent to do harm.

But after reading your first quoted source i've got big problems with you post.

i've bolded some key points that make it very clear the items you're pointing out to be fact are indeed speculation by the victims family. Who might i add didn't even know of his where a bouts at the time. Even the victims family found it shocking that their son was in someone else's house at 2:30 in the morning. Imagine how shocked the owner of that house was when he found out.

I would not be surprised if your version of the story was the correct one. But without knowing, preaching your theory of what happened as fact wins no one's favor.

Also, it's doubtful that he yelled "yee haw" after firing his weapon once. In contrast to "filling them full of bullets". And i'm sorry but your choice of words makes your post seem like it's a rant and quite derogatory to people who live in the south.

You're right, it does sound like I'm trashing the South, but really that's where the bulk of the far right actually live so rest assured, I'm talking about the people who are part of the shoot first, ask questions later crowd, not the entire region. If you don't fall into that category of gun toting psycho, I'm not talking about you.

Also, I fully admit, there aren't really any "facts" when it comes to this case, we can only go by what's reported. Those things I listed are things that have been reported from different news agencies. The general consensus seems to be:

1) The kid wasn't an unknown intruder
2) The kid didn't have a weapon, so not sure why he would reach for a phantom weapon...
3) The kid died

That doesn't seem to fit justifiable homicide and a proper application of deadly force. You can bet if this father is eventually charged with homicide, the liberal left will parade this incident around as a reason why guns need to be "more regulated".

[Litos]

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

it does sound like I'm trashing the South, but really that's where the bulk of the far right actually live so rest assured, I'm talking about the people who are part of the shoot first, ask questions later crowd,

we like it that way...

better than being killed first...

also, keeps our citizens from being victimized as much as other people in major states and/or metropolitan areas...

so yeah, you can thank A LOT of young adults for keeping your ass safe over the last 250 years, because 40% of the MOST ELITE MILITARY IN THE WORLD is composed of this "shoot first, ask questions later" crowd.....

you're welcome by the way......

[Vic311]