[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by G30M

what do you mean?
...
RB meanwhile ... I think that picture suits RB don't you think?

2 races in, Max has more than double the points Charles and Lewis have together, in a worse car...

Yes Max has the weakest teammate imagineable, but we've grown accustomed to that the last few years....
No one cares about the WCC anyways.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by G30M

IF he's lucky.
if unlucky, continue to suffer in RB
if very unlucky, out of F1

recall that there's a guy looking for a job, Colapinto

Remember that MAX said that he will race next to any teammate, no special clause in his contract, like one I could mention, of not having any specific drivers.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by G30M

what do you mean? they already had a pole and a win! RB meanwhile ... I think that picture suits RB don't you think?

Marks given by Corriere della Sera (major Italian newspaper) to F1 teams and drivers: Ferrari exceptionally got 0/10 ("let's start at the bottom with the mark that [Team] Red deserves for their double DSQ" - "scenario imbarazzante"). Leclerc got 6.5/10 and Hamilton 6/10. Except for Doohan (2/10) and Lawson (4/10), all drivers got a pass (https://www.corriere.it/sport/formul...13fc7xlk.shtml).



The 2025 Ferrari car is competitive. But in some way or another adverse situations happen ("Ferrari Things"), vaporizing the realistic chance of more WCC and WDC points.

Also, FOM (Formula One Management) screwed Ferrari/Hamilton by misrepresenting the Hamilton-Leclerc swap during the race. Broadcast gave the impression that Hamilton hesitated to do the swap, while in reality Hamilton himself had first proposed the swap to the team. FOM did not broadcast Hamilton proposing the swap - only what followed. Vasseur complained about the narrative that was created. Unfair for Hamilton.
"In the first 20 laps of the race, Leclerc was bottled up behind teammate Hamilton but unable to get close enough to make a pass.
Realising he was impeding Leclerc's progress, Hamilton radioed the pit wall to say, "I think I'm going to let Charles go because I'm struggling."
That message was not broadcast on the world feed, which is controlled by Formula 1, but the following messages, including Hamilton's rejection of a call to swap at Turn 14, were broadcast.
The messages that did play out on the TV feed made it sound like Hamilton was against the idea even though he was the one who initiated the process of the swap."
(https://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id...-messages-joke)

I harbor no grudges against Ferrari and Italy (I have close personal ties with Italy).

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by Artemis

FOM did not broadcast Hamilton proposing the swap - only what followed. Vasseur complained about the narrative that was created.

I didn't know that. that indeed changes the narrative.
However, in that light I still think that swap took pretty long, which was not good for Charles tyres. The longer he stayed in the dirty air, the more he cooked and wore down his tyres.
So that leaves the question: if the swap had been done 5 laps earlier (or thereabout), would that have saved enough of LEC's tyres to fight off Max succesfully? LEC was stuck behind HAM for a pretty long time after all.

Or in hindsight: would that have reduced the wear on the tyres enough to not get disqualified?

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by G30M

what do you mean? they already had a pole and a win! RB meanwhile ... I think that picture suits RB don't you think?

Not even close. MAX with a 2nd,4th and 2nd in the sprint means he's second in the drivers championship behind Lando.

[M5Rick]

Colapinto has been mentioned as a replacement for Liam but he drives for Williams Mercedes and that transfer would be complex and expensive for RBR with Wolff possibly getting involved also making sanctions on Williams engine wise as Yuki/Liam would be a painless swap and it depends of course on Colapinto's contract wording.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Marks given by Corriere della Sera (major Italian newspaper) to F1 teams and drivers: Ferrari exceptionally got 0/10 ("let's start at the bottom with the mark that [Team] Red deserves for their double DSQ" - "scenario imbarazzante"). Leclerc got 6.5/10 and Hamilton 6/10. Except for Doohan (2/10) and Lawson (4/10), all drivers got a pass (https://www.corriere.it/sport/formul...13fc7xlk.shtml).

Attachment 3694379

The 2025 Ferrari car is competitive. But in some way or another adverse situations happen ("Ferrari Things"), vaporizing the realistic chance of more WCC and WDC points.

Also, FOM (Formula One Management) screwed Ferrari/Hamilton by misrepresenting the Hamilton-Leclerc swap during the race. Broadcast gave the impression that Hamilton hesitated to do the swap, while in reality Hamilton himself had first proposed the swap to the team. FOM did not broadcast Hamilton proposing the swap - only what followed. Vasseur complained about the narrative that was created. Unfair for Hamilton.
"In the first 20 laps of the race, Leclerc was bottled up behind teammate Hamilton but unable to get close enough to make a pass.
Realising he was impeding Leclerc's progress, Hamilton radioed the pit wall to say, "I think I'm going to let Charles go because I'm struggling."
That message was not broadcast on the world feed, which is controlled by Formula 1, but the following messages, including Hamilton's rejection of a call to swap at Turn 14, were broadcast.
The messages that did play out on the TV feed made it sound like Hamilton was against the idea even though he was the one who initiated the process of the swap."
(https://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id...-messages-joke)

I harbor no grudges against Ferrari and Italy (I have close personal ties with Italy).

In the meantime Fred is powerless to do anything except write a letter of apology to fans as this is all above his head now leading to the excessive tyre wear and plank/weight situation which tipped the scales against them all for the sake of saving around a kilo of weight.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Colapinto has been mentioned as a replacement for Liam but he drives for Williams Mercedes and that transfer would be complex and expensive for RBR with Wolff possibly getting involved also making sanctions on Williams engine wise as Yuki/Liam would be a painless swap and it depends of course on Colapinto's contract wording.

Colapinto has potential as driver and persona (popularity - Argentina). Wolff wouldn't do Horner any such favor for several reasons: mutual dislike between Wolff and Horner + to maximize the chances for Mercedes to get WCC P2 this year (McLaren getting the 2025 WCC title with its Papaya rocket, is a foregone conclusion, except if miracles happen at other teams) + to convince Verstappen to leave a weakened RBR team for Mercedes in 2026 to ensure a strengthened Mercedes and a nuked RBR.

Wolff makes no secret that he and INEOS boss Jim Ratcliffe got the financial firepower to cut Verstappen a good deal. They had preparatory talks in 2024 that went well (to the point that, so the story goes, Mercedes were even agreeable to meet Verstappen's demand to also give Helmut Marko some advisory role at Mercedes). Verstappen's RBR contract expiring by the end of 2028, is told to stipulate exit clauses. The RBR car must remain sufficiently competitive to compete for WDC titles. The RBR car will no longer be powered by Honda in 2026. Adrian Newey has left. Verstappen got no competitive wingman to provide support and sufficient feedback. Russell's Mercedes contract ends this year. The relationship between Russell and Verstappen has grown increasingly hostile over the past year (Russell is fully aware that he can be "Sainz'd" at the end of this season). Wolff still struggles with the fact that Hamilton has cut a deal with Ferrari behind his back in winter 2023-2024, caught off guard. Wolff has been prominently mild about Verstappen since 2024. Feel free to connect the dots.

I go out on a limb and predict this for 2026:

[G30M]

Originally Posted by Artemis

I go out on a limb and predict this for 2026:

it would have already been a done deal if Max wants to. Bottas was swooped up 2 days after Rosberg retired. Jos will have a whole 2 years talking with Toto.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Colapinto has potential as driver and persona (popularity - Argentina). Wolff wouldn't do Horner any such favor for several reasons: mutual dislike between Wolff and Horner + to maximize the chances for Mercedes to get WCC P2 this year (McLaren getting the 2025 WCC title with its Papaya rocket, is a foregone conclusion, except if miracles happen at other teams) + to convince Verstappen to leave a weakened RBR team for Mercedes in 2026 to ensure a strengthened Mercedes and a nuked RBR.

Wolff makes no secret that he and INEOS boss Jim Ratcliffe got the financial firepower to cut Verstappen a good deal. They had preparatory talks in 2024 that went well (to the point that, so the story goes, Mercedes were even agreeable to meet Verstappen's demand to also give Helmut Marko some advisory role at Mercedes). Verstappen's RBR contract expiring by the end of 2028, is told to stipulate exit clauses. The RBR car must remain sufficiently competitive to compete for WDC titles. The RBR car will no longer be powered by Honda in 2026. Adrian Newey has left. Verstappen got no competitive wingman to provide support and sufficient feedback. Russell's Mercedes contract ends this year. The relationship between Russell and Verstappen has grown increasingly hostile over the past year (Russell is fully aware that he can be "Sainz'd" at the end of this season). Wolff still struggles with the fact that Hamilton has cut a deal with Ferrari behind his back in winter 2023-2024, caught off-guard. Wolff has been prominently mild about Verstappen since 2024. Feel free to connect the dots.

I go out on a limb and predict this for 2026:

Attachment 3694400

Please don't put that picture on anymore

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

2 races in, Max has more than double the points Charles and Lewis have together, in a worse car...

Yes Max has the weakest teammate imagineable, but we've grown accustomed to that the last few years....
No one cares about the WCC anyways.

The World Constructors is just something for the winning team manager to hold a huge feast with unlimited drinks for the other managers after the season in a swanky restaurant and unimportant to all race fans.

[wizardofOz]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Colapinto has been mentioned as a replacement for Liam but he drives for Williams Mercedes and that transfer would be complex and expensive for RBR with Wolff possibly getting involved also making sanctions on Williams engine wise as Yuki/Liam would be a painless swap and it depends of course on Colapinto's contract wording.

I think Yuki for Liam is the most sensible too, seems like a no brainer

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Please don't put that picture on anymore

Verstappen will be a father in a couple of days or weeks. Family man emotions will be running strong. The Horner 2024 sexting story has impacted both Verstappens. Fortress Red Bull Racing ain't as strong anymore as it used to be. Red Bull Racing is weathering yet another storm, both on track and off track.

Toto Wolff will gladly offer Verstappen a shoulder to cry on: "Please sign the dotted line."

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

Or in hindsight: would that have reduced the wear on the tyres enough to not get disqualified?

Possible internal memo for Leclerc: next races, also drive through the gravel after the chequered flag to artificially gain weight...

Russell couldn't "pick up rubber" at Spa 2024 after the chequered flag because no victory lap was allowed (circuit too long). 1-stop strategy shaved his tires and, hence, weight. He won the race but got DSQ'd for weight reasons.

"Picking up Rubber: Loophole or Policing Issue for the FIA? A 2024 Belgian GP Retrospective" (August 2024):
https://www.motorsportprospects.com/...retrospective/

[G30M]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Possible internal memo for Leclerc: next races, also drive through the gravel after the chequered flag to artificially gain weight after the race...

"Picking up Rubber: Loophole or Policing Issue for the FIA?" (August 2024):
https://www.motorsportprospects.com/...retrospective/

nah, easier. drink a litre of coke. pour a litre of water into the suit, etc.

[G30M]

this actually happened, team radio

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Did you see 'HOW ...Ocon was overtaking !!!

I would take him out of the race !

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Banzai I figure when I'll watch the re run now.

I meant this moment . As you can see , it was OCON again !

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by G30M

this actually happened, team radio

The situation with tyre weight and deg has got to the point of being silly and precious depending so much on whether you win a race or not..

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

I meant this moment . As you can see , it was OCON again !

I didn't see that bit on the re-run,I'll wait for the extended version. Looks like OCO is having a hair spray fight with Kimi A

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by G30M

it would have already been a done deal if Max wants to. Bottas was swooped up 2 days after Rosberg retired. Jos will have a whole 2 years talking with Toto.

Verstappen arguably operates on a different level than Bottas. Also, only Red Bull (RBR), Aramco (Aston Martin), INEOS (Mercedes) and Ferrari got enough guacamole in the bank to hire his services.

It's a fact that negotiations have happened in 2024. More than simply testing the waters. And based on what was told about it, it sounds that it didn't end with a "Goodbye" but rather with a "See you later". Verstappen repeatedly said that he will stay at RBR till the end of his contract (2028) as long as RBR offers him a competitive car to challenge for WDC titles. In that respect, 2025 doesn't look promising. Will the 2026 Ford-RBPT car be sufficiently competitive ? On a personal level, the relationship between Horner and Verstappen has been hit by the way a female employee was treated in 2024. Looks like it's 'strictly business' between Verstappen and Horner ever since.

For the record: Enzo Ferrari criticized Juan Manuel Fangio after the latter had the temerity to forsake Scuderia Ferrari following his 1956 championship to return to Enzo's arch-enemy Maserati. "Fangio did not remain loyal to any marque," Ferrari said, "and he invariably used every endeavour to ensure that he would always drive the best car available." Stirling Moss disagreed and quickly pointed out why Fangio (who won championships with Alfa Romeo, Mercedes (twice), Ferrari and Maserati) always had the best car: "Because he was the best bloody driver! The cheapest method of becoming a successful Grand Prix team was to sign up Fangio.".

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

I didn't see that bit on the re-run,I'll wait for the extended version. Looks like OCO is having a hair spray fight with Kimi A

Flashbacks to Hamilton-Rosberg in Barcelona 2016 (crash) + Verstappen-Perez in Austria 2023 (almost a crash).

± 330 km/h:

[c1pher]

Originally Posted by G30M

this actually happened, team radio

I feel like he earned the second Red Bull seat, not Lawson.Lawson should have gone to RBR and allow Yuki a shot. He was only two places behind Max for most of the race until they tried a two stop and then his front wing broke, not due to his fault.