[Ngilbe36]

Originally Posted by DiFFv1

" I guess my novice advise is that you are probably not smarter than everyone else and you should just stay calm."

Lol you guys get so triggered when someone says anything different than your personal opinion. Which is okay, Its humorous.

So let me further explain, I "Day Trade" Options Maybe that shouldn't have been left out perhaps... So that example wouldn't make much sense to me being that all my Calls/Puts are deadline based contracts. I make more money ( With Less Invested) with more of a risk, Yes. But also you cant tell me that i can make 10,000 on an option call in one-two weeks where you can make the same in Four months holding.

I understand holding and letting it take its course, I respect it. But that's not the path that i choose. Respect to both parties, Also i came asking if anyone day traded not " Who am i smarter than" C'mon girls that no way to punch those keys, Spread that love

Just to clarify here.
I was not targeting anyone with my comment. I honestly didn't even read your post. I also said "probably", you could be a savant for all I know! Haha. Good on you for making some real money, I was not trying to take anything away from you.

[DiFFv1]

Originally Posted by Ngilbe36

Just to clarify here.
I was not targeting anyone with my comment. I honestly didn't even read your post. I also said "probably", you could be a savant for all I know! Haha. Good on you for making some real money, I was not trying to take anything away from you.

Its all good brother its not like this is your first post in this thread and you replied corresponding to our posts. I'm sure you were just typing with your eyes closed which by the way i must add is very impressive. Also i appreciate your backpedal but i know im not the smartest in the world otherwise id find better things to do with my time. All love still ofcourse

[bimmer456]

I've owned Apple stock since 2015 and doubled my portfolio. Roku stock is up 400 percent since January. So if you brought $100k worth in December it would be $400k now.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by DiFFv1

" I guess my novice advise is that you are probably not smarter than everyone else and you should just stay calm."

Lol you guys get so triggered when someone says anything different than your personal opinion. Which is okay, Its humorous.

So let me further explain, I "Day Trade" Options Maybe that shouldn't have been left out perhaps... So that example wouldn't make much sense to me being that all my Calls/Puts are deadline based contracts. I make more money ( With Less Invested) with more of a risk, Yes. But also you cant tell me that i can make 10,000 on an option call in one-two weeks where you can make the same in Four months holding.

I understand holding and letting it take its course, I respect it. But that's not the path that i choose. Respect to both parties, Also i came asking if anyone day traded not " Who am i smarter than" C'mon girls that no way to punch those keys, Spread that love

Four months holding for my investments is a blip on the radar. I tend to hold for years/decades.

I'm 45, married, and two kids. I've been investing since the mid-1990s and started with around $20K my grandfather gave me in stocks. I make a decent salary, but really only started making larger sums of money until ~2012. My wife has her own business but it only brings in maybe $1,000/mo. Our very standard suburban Kansas City house has been paid off since 2014. My wife and I have Roths, a traditional IRA, a brokerage account, and I have a 401K and money plan at my work (kind of like a pension). My kids college funds a nearly fully funded. Our portfolio grew well over $350K over the past 4 years, largely because I wised up and began managing our money rather than my broker at Morgan Stanley and my wife and I haven't tapped much into my increased salary which started ~2012. I plan on retiring 5 to 7 years.

I'm a Warren Buffet and John Bogle believer. I stick to the odds of staying the market and investing largely in S&P 500 index funds and solid stocks. I've weathered all the major financial storms between 1995 and 2012. At one point in 2009, my portfolio was down nearly 40%. I was upset but stayed the course. I've made a killing in the 6 years and it's been a massive snowball effect. My wife and I are diligent about investing and saving, but still have fun traveling and splurging on things like my M235.

You can make money doing what you're doing, but the odds are an investor like myself will be way ahead of you over the span of 20+ years. Get rich quick rarely works out for the huge majority of investors.

[rangeseeker]

Originally Posted by qba335i

That is NOT a good financial advice.

1) you should max out 401k contribution. Currently 18,500.

2) you should have a diversified portfolio - that includes equities (stocks/mutual funds/ETFs), bonds, alternatives (real estate and commodities) and cash. Once you have more assets you can start adding private equity and hedge funds. Management fee vs product fee - know the difference and know what you get.

3) there is a benefit of having a portfolio manager (don't confuse with a sales oriented financial advisor who used to sell cars) as he will be able to design an optimal portfolio, monitor it and do tactical shifts. Most people don't have the skill, knowledge and time to manage money plus they make irrational decisions.

4) everyone is a star/professional investor in a bull market. The true investing starts when the market starts moving in the opposite direction.


OP: what is your annualized 1,3,5 year return? Any risk metrics? How did you do in 2008-2009?


Disclaimer: I work in the investment field.

Hilarious comment. Portfolio managers rob people blind and it's near criminal, hence the rise of robo investors. You really just don't want to admit that all you can hope to is be at least average. A microscopic amount of fund managers actually beat the market, you don't know who is going to beat it next and you're just wasting time and money in the mean time.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by rangeseeker

Hilarious comment. Portfolio managers rob people blind and it's near criminal, hence the rise of robo investors. You really just don't want to admit that all you can hope to is be at least average. A microscopic amount of fund managers actually beat the market, you don't know who is going to beat it next and you're just wasting time and money in the mean time.

Agreed. If I knew 10+ years ago what I know now about investing, I'd be way further ahead by not having involved a "wealth retirement manager" and paying all their fees and buying into BS. I simply didn't know better back then, but my ignorance is not a defense. Live and learn.

My 72 y/o mother has the same Morgan Stanley wealth manager I had (I went with him because my parents liked him). I have a plan mapped out for her but she likes him and she doesn't think I know what I'm doing because it's not my profession. Oh well.

[qba335i]

Originally Posted by rangeseeker

Hilarious comment. Portfolio managers rob people blind and it's near criminal, hence the rise of robo investors. You really just don't want to admit that all you can hope to is be at least average. A microscopic amount of fund managers actually beat the market, you don't know who is going to beat it next and you're just wasting time and money in the mean time.

Different market segment - I (we) am not trying to compete with a robo advisors. My space targets $20M+ clients with a lot of accounts paying 200-500k+ in fees annually. I can assure you that our clients are happy and we earn this fee.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by qba335i

Different market segment - I (we) am not trying to compete with a robo advisors. My space targets $20M+ clients with a lot of accounts paying 200-500k+ in fees annually. I can assure you that our clients are happy and we earn this fee.

OK. I'm trying to be snarky or a jerk here. I understand the need for most to have a bit of help when trying to manage a $5M+ portfolio. I could see that as being a bit cumbersome with investment opportunities, taxes (err....legal evasion ), estate planning, wills, etc. But I do have to ask the question, what is that you're doing for the client that warrants $500K in fees for a $20M portfolio? That's $42,000/mo, $9,600/wk, or $240/hr based on a 2,080 hour US working year. I get it that there are admin costs and company costs like research, junior/assistant staff, and the general cost to run a business, but I just don't get what you're company is doing that warrants such high fees. For much of the time, the portfolio/investments run themselves with little intervention. I get that there is a lot of effort and complication when large amounts of money need to get moved around or investments change. But in the end, you charge very high fees for seemingly minimal overall effort. Other than risking losing a client because of some bad intel or advice, what risk are you taking? I just don't see it.

Like I said earlier, I was formerly with Morgan Stanley and had an adviser. They were taking 1% to manage my portfolio. Plus, when I'd change things (which wasn't often), there were many other fees. Once I wised up and started researching more, it really started to irritate me how many fees were buried all throughout my statements. When it was all said and done, I was paying more like 3+%+ a year in fees (all fund/investment fees considered in this, not just his) and my adviser wasn't doing much at all. He was responsive to my questions, was honest (I think), was a really nice guy, but looking back, I don't feel like I ever got the entire story/risk/costs to the investment choices he offered and the ones I requested. He could not be spending more than 10 hours a month with "managing" my portfolio. He had a very nice house in a very nice part of Kansas City, drove a very expensive Benz and his kids went to very pricey schools. His wife didn't work. Long story short, I was ignorant. I felt that it was all too complicated to understand and so I trusted his advice.

Back in early 2015, I decided I needed to learn and gut check what I was invested in. I spent 4 months reading and researching. I came to the conclusion that I was spending a massive amount of money in adviser fees, actively managed fund fees, and the like. My portfolio wasn't close to matching the market. I felt like such an idiot. I took all our money from MS and moved it to Vanguard, bought S&P 500 index funds, a decent amount of Berkshire Class B, and some other low fee funds to spread the risk. I manage everything myself. In four years, our overall portfolio grew about 40%. Granted the market has been amazing for the last 8 years and I get that, but there is no way in hell I'd be at the same place if I stayed at MS. Not even close.

Sad thing is, my story isn't very from most people with decent portfolios ($500K-2M) that left their advisers to manage things themselves. I just don't see the value having an adviser if you've got less than $2M as you don't need to be in anything fancy at all. See Warren Buffet's "15-minute retirement plan" and start there then branch a little once you hit $750K-1M. Advisers are happy to collect a lot of fees, offer advice, and make recommendations, but there is little risk for them. When people accounts/funds take big hits, they send out market letters full of excuses as to why their advice didn't work out as planned. LOL

[NemesisX]

My dad hit $15M in liquid net worth this year after 37 years of working/investing. He's 61 and 95% of his money is in Vanguard funds with extremely low expense ratios that track the S&P500. He's well aware that for his age and intended retirement (he wants to retire by 77) his portfolio is extremely aggressive given that it's mostly equities. Income trajectory was $40k to begin, $160k mid 90s, $300k early 2000s, $500k 2010-2015, and recently $800k-$900k the last couple of years. Expenses are around $150,000/year which is why he can afford to be aggressive.

In the late 2000s he tried his hand at a financial advisor by letting an advisor manage $500k of his total portfolio. He chose that amount because it was the minimum amount required to optimize the fee schedule for this brokerage firm. He figured he could always mirror what the advisor was doing with the rest of his money if she ended up doing something special. Over the course of 7 years she failed miserably compared to the S&P500.

She purchased mostly mutual funds from American funds for which she received extra compensation for "selling" their product. Then she stuck to mostly blue chip stocks that are readily listed on their website for free.

The cost to do this? 2% of assets under management. There would have been an additional 2% fee for reinvestment of dividends if the portfolio had been less than $500k.

American Funds have expense ratios around 1% and front loads of around 5.75%. That's in addition to Edward Jone's fees listed above, I think, but don't quote me on that.

Bottom line is firms/financial advisors has zero value if they're not beating the S&P500. The firm needs to beat the market by a certain amount just to break even with their fees and then provide additional value above that.

[XKxRome0ox]

Originally Posted by NemesisX

My dad hit $15M in liquid net worth this year after 37 years of working/investing. He's 61 and 95% of his money is in Vanguard funds with extremely low expense ratios that track the S&P500. He's well aware that for his age and intended retirement (he wants to retire by 77) his portfolio is extremely aggressive given that it's mostly equities. Income trajectory was $40k to begin, $160k mid 90s, $300k early 2000s, $500k 2010-2015, and recently $800k-$900k the last couple of years. Expenses are around $150,000/year which is why he can afford to be aggressive.

what does your dad do for a living? he must really enjoy his work ... to be planning on working until he is 77 when he has more than a comfortable nest egg put away


make sure you don't piss him off so you stay in the will

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by XKxRome0ox

what does your dad do for a living? he must really enjoy his work ... to be planning on working until he is 77 when he has more than a comfortable nest egg put away

^Agreed!

$15M in assets is impressive not matter how you cut it. Even more impressive is that he's apparently done it by having what appears to be a more typical job rather than born into some rich family and having access to money and risk comfort.

What does he do for a living? He must love his job to stick in with it through to 77.

How much of their income was he investing over the past 15 years. It had to be a lot and they must not live on much at all.

I'm no where close to $15M in assets and I'm only 45. I sure as hell am not working until 77. My retirement goal is 55 or younger. My kids will be well into college by then and their college funds are nearly funded now. My wife and I plan to build our own simple "small" home (~1,200 sq. ft.) and downsize a lot (too much shit starts to own you). I'll still have a big garage though with two cars for me and a lift The home and land should be an even swap for our currently paid off home. Once I hit $2.5-3M, I'm done with work and will be playing and traveling.

[qba335i]

Originally Posted by NemesisX

My dad hit $15M in liquid net worth this year after 37 years of working/investing. He's 61 and 95% of his money is in Vanguard funds with extremely low expense ratios that track the S&P500. He's well aware that for his age and intended retirement (he wants to retire by 77) his portfolio is extremely aggressive given that it's mostly equities. Income trajectory was $40k to begin, $160k mid 90s, $300k early 2000s, $500k 2010-2015, and recently $800k-$900k the last couple of years. Expenses are around $150,000/year which is why he can afford to be aggressive.

In the late 2000s he tried his hand at a financial advisor by letting an advisor manage $500k of his total portfolio. He chose that amount because it was the minimum amount required to optimize the fee schedule for this brokerage firm. He figured he could always mirror what the advisor was doing with the rest of his money if she ended up doing something special. Over the course of 7 years she failed miserably compared to the S&P500.

She purchased mostly mutual funds from American funds for which she received extra compensation for "selling" their product. Then she stuck to mostly blue chip stocks that are readily listed on their website for free.

The cost to do this? 2% of assets under management. There would have been an additional 2% fee for reinvestment of dividends if the portfolio had been less than $500k.

American Funds have expense ratios around 1% and front loads of around 5.75%. That's in addition to Edward Jone's fees listed above, I think, but don't quote me on that.

Bottom line is firms/financial advisors has zero value if they're not beating the S&P500. The firm needs to beat the market by a certain amount just to break even with their fees and then provide additional value above that.

Originally Posted by NemesisX

Bottom line is firms/financial advisors has zero value if they're not beating the S&P500. The firm needs to beat the market by a certain amount just to break even with their fees and then provide additional value above that.

Managing portfolios is a little more complicated than beating S&P.

If you want to have a chance at beating the S&P you need to invest in alternatives (hedge funds, private equity). Just for reference with most known firms you need around 50M to make a diversified custom PE/HF portfolio.

You can tell your dad to read about tax managed equity as it can be beneficial for him.

[qba335i]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

OK. I'm trying to be snarky or a jerk here. I understand the need for most to have a bit of help when trying to manage a $5M+ portfolio. I could see that as being a bit cumbersome with investment opportunities, taxes (err....legal evasion ), estate planning, wills, etc. But I do have to ask the question, what is that you're doing for the client that warrants $500K in fees for a $20M portfolio? That's $42,000/mo, $9,600/wk, or $240/hr based on a 2,080 hour US working year. I get it that there are admin costs and company costs like research, junior/assistant staff, and the general cost to run a business, but I just don't get what you're company is doing that warrants such high fees. For much of the time, the portfolio/investments run themselves with little intervention. I get that there is a lot of effort and complication when large amounts of money need to get moved around or investments change. But in the end, you charge very high fees for seemingly minimal overall effort. Other than risking losing a client because of some bad intel or advice, what risk are you taking? I just don't see it.

Like I said earlier, I was formerly with Morgan Stanley and had an adviser. They were taking 1% to manage my portfolio. Plus, when I'd change things (which wasn't often), there were many other fees. Once I wised up and started researching more, it really started to irritate me how many fees were buried all throughout my statements. When it was all said and done, I was paying more like 3+%+ a year in fees (all fund/investment fees considered in this, not just his) and my adviser wasn't doing much at all. He was responsive to my questions, was honest (I think), was a really nice guy, but looking back, I don't feel like I ever got the entire story/risk/costs to the investment choices he offered and the ones I requested. He could not be spending more than 10 hours a month with "managing" my portfolio. He had a very nice house in a very nice part of Kansas City, drove a very expensive Benz and his kids went to very pricey schools. His wife didn't work. Long story short, I was ignorant. I felt that it was all too complicated to understand and so I trusted his advice.

Back in early 2015, I decided I needed to learn and gut check what I was invested in. I spent 4 months reading and researching. I came to the conclusion that I was spending a massive amount of money in adviser fees, actively managed fund fees, and the like. My portfolio wasn't close to matching the market. I felt like such an idiot. I took all our money from MS and moved it to Vanguard, bought S&P 500 index funds, a decent amount of Berkshire Class B, and some other low fee funds to spread the risk. I manage everything myself. In four years, our overall portfolio grew about 40%. Granted the market has been amazing for the last 8 years and I get that, but there is no way in hell I'd be at the same place if I stayed at MS. Not even close.

Sad thing is, my story isn't very from most people with decent portfolios ($500K-2M) that left their advisers to manage things themselves. I just don't see the value having an adviser if you've got less than $2M as you don't need to be in anything fancy at all. See Warren Buffet's "15-minute retirement plan" and start there then branch a little once you hit $750K-1M. Advisers are happy to collect a lot of fees, offer advice, and make recommendations, but there is little risk for them. When people accounts/funds take big hits, they send out market letters full of excuses as to why their advice didn't work out as planned. LOL

Originally Posted by NemesisX

My dad hit $15M in liquid net worth this year after 37 years of working/investing. He's 61 and 95% of his money is in Vanguard funds with extremely low expense ratios that track the S&P500. He's well aware that for his age and intended retirement (he wants to retire by 77) his portfolio is extremely aggressive given that it's mostly equities. Income trajectory was $40k to begin, $160k mid 90s, $300k early 2000s, $500k 2010-2015, and recently $800k-$900k the last couple of years. Expenses are around $150,000/year which is why he can afford to be aggressive.

In the late 2000s he tried his hand at a financial advisor by letting an advisor manage $500k of his total portfolio. He chose that amount because it was the minimum amount required to optimize the fee schedule for this brokerage firm. He figured he could always mirror what the advisor was doing with the rest of his money if she ended up doing something special. Over the course of 7 years she failed miserably compared to the S&P500.

She purchased mostly mutual funds from American funds for which she received extra compensation for "selling" their product. Then she stuck to mostly blue chip stocks that are readily listed on their website for free.

The cost to do this? 2% of assets under management. There would have been an additional 2% fee for reinvestment of dividends if the portfolio had been less than $500k.

American Funds have expense ratios around 1% and front loads of around 5.75%. That's in addition to Edward Jone's fees listed above, I think, but don't quote me on that.

Bottom line is firms/financial advisors has zero value if they're not beating the S&P500. The firm needs to beat the market by a certain amount just to break even with their fees and then provide additional value above that.

You want to control volatility and taxes. That's the benefit of a well managed portfolio. A well diversified portfolio will never beat S&P - but will provide "stable" return over time. We always talk about risk adjusted return.

A few benefits of using a portfolio manager/good firm. (HNW clients):
- diversified portfolio, access to active/passive products depending on client needs (individual stocks, funds, ETFs, managed accounts, alternatives..)
- goals based investing - new way to look at asset management
- guidance regarding wealth planning, gifting.. comprehensive view. GRATS, foundations, GST..
- resources and referrals. We can give you recommendations or connect you with the correct person for everything. Have a 10-20M painting for sale, want to sell your business, have a mom that needs a retirement home or maybe need someone to review your insurance coverage (kidnapping insurance for example)?

If a financial advisors offers you a fund with a load just leave. There are so many "sales car type" people in the industry that have no idea about managing money.

[overcoil]

I just found these videos, she's good...

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcI...ZRBCw/featured

[bimmer456]

So my boss is saying he made a few hundred bucks at the casino over the weekend. I chuckled at that after making $5.6k this morning in the stock market. I didn't have to even pull a slot machine lever to do that lol. I like doing nothing and still making lots of money. My co worker just started a new job with a lot more driving/commuting but I doubt he's making $5k more a day than his old job. YTD 2020 I've already made $20k after making nearly 6 figures last year in addition to my salary.

[XKxRome0ox]

Originally Posted by bimmer456

So my boss is saying he made a few hundred bucks at the casino over the weekend. I chuckled at that after making $5.6k this morning in the stock market. I didn't have to even pull a slot machine lever to do that lol. I like doing nothing and still making lots of money. My co worker just started a new job with a lot more driving/commuting but I doubt he's making $5k more a day than his old job. YTD 2020 I've already made $20k after making nearly 6 figures last year in addition to my salary.

what were your moves?
realized or unrealized gains?


I kick myself for selling off the few Tesla shares I had
not to mention DIS and MSFT

[bimmer456]

Originally Posted by XKxRome0ox

what were your moves?
realized or unrealized gains?


I kick myself for selling off the few Tesla shares I had
not to mention DIS and MSFT

I own just Apple stock. Haven't really done much but buy and hold since 2017. Tesla has been rallying but it's still too volatile for me. Whenever I see Tesla drop and Apple rally I think it makes more sense to keep everything in Apple as I would have lost money if I kept it at Tesla after the last rally. Though it looks like it just hit an all time high again today, but that's not enough of an incentive to sell Apple and buy Tesla since Apple did the same today and hasn't really had any negative days this year. This would be unrealized gains for me, not planning on selling and leaving money on the table.

[XKxRome0ox]

hot damn
anyone on the TSLA rocket to the moon?

the shares i regret selling last year ... TSLA, MSFT, and DIS
they would have made a huge difference in my small portfolio

[gatorfast]

Just spoke to a good friend of mine who is a really savvy investor. He told me the key to making money in the stock market is to buy low and sell high. I think Ill try it and report back.

[Humdizzle]

Originally Posted by XKxRome0ox

hot damn
anyone on the TSLA rocket to the moon?

the shares i regret selling last year ... TSLA, MSFT, and DIS
they would have made a huge difference in my small portfolio

i'm sure everyone that sold or shorted TSLA regrets it at this point. Just like everyone who got into the bitcoin bubble too late only to see it crash. hindsight is always 20/20.

[XKxRome0ox]

alright
time to bump this thread

Who's on the GME rocket?
I'm holding a handful of shares
waiting for my additional deposit to clear to buy in more

looks like big money is trying to suppress the share price but I believe it will have to go up

[NorCalAthlete]

Originally Posted by XKxRome0ox

alright
time to bump this thread

Who's on the GME rocket?
I'm holding a handful of shares
waiting for my additional deposit to clear to buy in more

looks like big money is trying to suppress the share price but I believe it will have to go up

Got 100+ shares @ ~$39 avg cost, still holding. Friday is going to pump but even that's not the final end game. Set a limit sell for $420 just for shits and giggles (only half my shares though). I'd be very surprised if that hits, but happy. Quick $21k right there.