[FilipMPower]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

A proper M? Many here would disagree.

The only proper M I would consider at this moment would be the M2. Sure, I love the M6, but it isnt a true M for me, feels like a sporty luxury car, like a Panamera Turbo. The whole M line up right now, with probably the exception of the M2 is definitely not as fun to drive as it once was. And I believe the only reason the M2 is so good is because of the 2 series chassis. So if we realise with the release of the next gen 5 series and 3 series that the CLAR chassis seems, like the F series, a bit more accustomed to comfort than sportiness, we shouldn't expect any suprisingly fun car to drive, sure it could be rather quick around the racetrack, but whats the point? Surely Porsche knows how to build cars which are very quick on the track but fun as well.

And in that case, I believe BMW M know how to build a proper M, but the fact that BMW is becoming more comfort and less sport takes away the possibilities away from the people at M.

[Arcades]

Originally Posted by MFNATIK

Lolol ironically people said the same thing about Japanese "junk" 50 years ago and look at the preception of Made in Japan today lol

Japan is a different story. They aren't strictly against anything from the West.

China on the other hand has always had the same story for the past decade. They dislike the west to such a point that they put up a giant Firewall to block anything that comes from the west. And yet they constantly rip things off from the West and "claim" it as their own. This isn't any different, they have trouble thinking things up for themselves and have to take things from the West to get any sort of idea. They blatantly ripped off Range Rover and numerous other cars as their own.

But I guess I should end it as saying I am Taiwan born and I have something against China's Government and I would never like them. Not their people, just their government. They will never do anything right in my eyes and the more my parents write up China as some next big thing the more I will roll my eyes.

[clbmw]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Only "Enthusiasts" rate the i8 as a failure because it does not fit in their perfect world of what a BMW sports car should be. Because it should have a V8 and over 600 PS+.
The i8 is far from failure it is made it to be.
Its the future of the Sports Car, today.

I'm not sure many people are saying it's a failure, the mood I detect (and granted I've not carried out any rigorous research) is an appetite for a much broader range of i8 models. I've lost count at the number of times people ask you about i8M and the times you've replied i and M are different parts of the alphabet/spectrum, but that shows appetite.

I would hope BMW are flattered by this as customers can clearly see the potential for even more from the car. Mpg is important but mph sells!

Ultimately I only know one guy whose bragging rights are about his mpg... He even keeps a spreadsheet. He drives and loves his merc and still my car is getting 5mpg more. He got given a 330d loaner and despite wanting to slag it off couldn't help but praise it. I recorded him saying it to use as future humiliation. I expect the mpg of the 3 banger i8 would excite him

[NightStalker]

I8 deffinately is not a failure. Here in New York alone I have seen about 5-6 i8's in the last few months.

And i3's as well.

People who call it fail simply don't grasp the concept of what BMW is trying to convey for the future of hybrid technology

[BoosTonian]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Only "Enthusiasts" rate the i8 as a failure because it does not fit in their perfect world of what a BMW sports car should be. Because it should have a V8 and over 600 PS+.
The i8 is far from failure it is made it to be.
Its the future of the Sports Car, today.

The i8 isn't a failure in terms of its technology. It's failed in terms of its league...150k for a car that performs like that of a car much much less than itself. People who look at the i8 have money for just about any car they choose. Why should they choose the i8 when they have cars such as the gt3, m6, p90d, etc to choose from? That's like setting the M6 at the same price point of the aventador. What's going to get chosen? The car doesn't perform like a 150k car, in any category. Most of the technology in the car can be had in much lesser models. It's a hybrid, okay, so is the Prius. What makes the car super unique? The looks? The battery? It's simply not worth 150k, and just because BMW decided to spend over $2 billion to produce it doesn't mean we the consumers should be paying for their mistake.

Chevy has come out with an electric car (the bolt) that is getting more hype than the i3 that's been out for years. Thing gets 200+ miles on a charge. BMW released a battery that might get 120 miles for this upcoming year. Something is going on that isn't right. BMW has never produced second rate stuff.

"BMW quality is better than Chevys"..that might be true, for now. But let me know how the Chevy looks from the back as the i3 dies and the bolt is going for another 80 miles..

[Inablur]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Only "Enthusiasts" rate the i8 as a failure because it does not fit in their perfect world of what a BMW sports car should be. Because it should have a V8 and over 600 PS+.
The i8 is far from failure it is made it to be.
Its the future of the Sports Car, today.

Sorry Scott but I would have to disagree. I know your job entails defending BMW's products and various brands but, you dont just throw a product in the face of consumers and always expect it to succeed.

Relatively speaking, the BMW i8 is an interesting product but not compelling enough at its price point given the sum of its parts, especially when you take into account competitor product offerings. Yes, it has advanced use of CFRP, yes its utilizes hybrid tech, yes it has suicide doors etc etc. Unfortunately the definition of today's sports car in consumer minds is a little more than that, and that is where BMW has some flaws in their product. Especially given its performance per dollar value, skinny tires, piped in sound, exhaust loudspeaker etc etc.

Now, just imagine if BMW had listened to it's customers and built an innovative sports car utilizing the positives of BMW i-brand innovations with some of today's most conventional and more convenient tech, i.e the best of BMW i innovations and the best of BMW M's performance wizardry. I would think that the product success, measurable in higher sales would be achieved better in such regard.

Just my 2 cents

[kevinlevrone]

Interesting. But to be honest, I think that electric cars need a breakthrough regarding energy storage, until they can become a real competitor to combustion engine cars. The i3 and i8 are very expensive for what they offer (and i3 is quite ugly too). Tesla is not very profitable (if any) even with their current hype.

Actually the best thing that came from BMW lately are not the i3 and i8, but their hybrid cars like the 325e. But of course, the 325e probably would have not been possible without the i3 and i8 developments.

Before full-electric cars, hybrids need to become mainstream. Right now the hybrid market is very small.

[X3paul]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

You are correct. Our aim is to complete the full BMW range with an iPerformance option from the entry model to our flagship for now 7er.
As of now we offer a 2er,3er,X5 and 7er models as Plug-in Hybrids. And next year will see the 5er offer plug-in hybrid with eventually three levels from entry to M Performance. And then it will feature on the X3.
The next 3er will also offer a full range of options.

The upcoming 5er Gran Turismo Concept is the first BMW model to illustrate a hydrogen fuel cell for a production model of which a prototype based on the existing F07 has been showcased and tested by certain aspects of the media.

Just test drove the x5 ev this morning. To be fair it isnt has bad as the review it has been getting in the press but it will not steal any sales from the loud coarse diesels...but new generation in 2018 according to some sites right?

[BoosTonian]

Originally Posted by kevinlevrone

Interesting. But to be honest, I think that electric cars need a breakthrough regarding energy storage, until they can become a real competitor to combustion engine cars. The i3 and i8 are very expensive for what they offer (and i3 is quite ugly too). Tesla is not very profitable (if any) even with their current hype.

Actually the best thing that came from BMW lately are not the i3 and i8, but their hybrid cars like the 325e. But of course, the 325e probably would have not been possible without the i3 and i8 developments.

Before full-electric cars, hybrids need to become mainstream. Right now the hybrid market is very small.

To be fair, I think the activeE program is more so responsible for the 330e, x5 e, etc.

The cars are great ideas, but the batteries they are supplied with are much much smaller than what they should be, in the x5 e at least.

I think BMW needs to perfect one thing at a time. It's attacking both ev and hybrid right now and has succeeded at neither.

[N & M]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

The Headline is misleading. BMW haven't lost their development team, they have lost their key EV executives some of which were working on other non-BMWi developments.

I love how you play this down. It is a matter of grave concern for a brand that is touted to be a cornerstone of the "next 100 years".

[N & M]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Only "Enthusiasts" rate the i8 as a failure because it does not fit in their perfect world of what a BMW sports car should be. Because it should have a V8 and over 600 PS+.
The i8 is far from failure it is made it to be.
Its the future of the Sports Car, today.

That is very true, but it was a an appetiser that did not get followed up with the proper main dish. BMW could have very much recreated the sports/super car market and done something like the P1 or NSX to keep enthusiasts happy and create demand for the regular i8 (i3 by extension). They were at the cusp and backed off.

[N & M]

Isn't funny how I am going from an M5 Jahre to an M2?!?

The last proper big bodied M was E60. It handled, sounded great and thrilled. Oh, and it killed Ferraris is straight line.

[N & M]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

The i8 is not designed to be a standard ICE vehicle. Its core is to provide sustainable technology, high performance and optimum weight at a highly unconventional level something it succeeds in.
The i8S replaces its three cylinder with a four cylinder again with the same aim.

But once again must I educate? BMWi is a long term investment it is not just about cars but the entire philosophy on how we use and build our cars from vehicle services,materials, construction and sustainable production methods within manufacturing. We are already years ahead of many manufacturers in advanced construction techniques in a volume vehicle which will be extended with the next generation 5er and so on across the range.

The i3 and the i8 are the first BMW models so it is rightfully that we allowed them to establish themselves within the market which they have done.
To which they have been a success from a global perspective.
There is no rush until the next BMWi model which is why we will not see it till 2020 in production guise, although a purely conceptual idea will be shown first.

Now it is about the next stage of progress for the i3 and i8 models. The i3 comes first this Summer with the i8 next year.

Whilst the future vehicle development has been in discussion. The next phase of sustainable technology is well underway for production @ BMW such as Power eDrive and Hydrogen Fuel Cell technology which will be shown imminently.

Yes, true, but ... I spent 3 days being told the next 100 years is about the future not the past. My worry is the brain drain and lack of action in key areas style and wow products will not see through the next 100.

[LDSM]

Front page stories are always fun

[The_Transporter]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

+1 - holy shit with all of the sky is falling talk.

(1.) BMW is clearly taking a "middle road" strategy with electric: build a competency so if it takes off ramping up is a small pivot, if it doesn't you get all of the lightweight materials technology and the MPG benefits which gives you room for huge margin M-cars. It's not a big risk because you're not trying to build a full lineup of i-cars (unless it takes off) as TheBingoBalls points out.

(2.) Biermann leaving is broadly irrelevant. Whether planned or not, it was probably a bump but the world's graveyards are full of indispensable men.

(3.) BMW probably has an internal SharePoint site. Staff churn is never fun but I'm sure they have a SharePoint with all the M/i/e-plans in it.

Step back from the ledge everyone, BMW is going to be ok.

I would have to agree. The sky is not falling!

Now let's see if anyone can think of a reason for leaving a company besides I hate them, they hate me, or I'm bored in my position. Has anyone thought that maybe just maybe they were offered double or possibly triple their compensation to leave?! This is very common across multiple industries and happens more than you would think.

Don't worry about BMW as they will either find someone outside the company to bring in or promote a team from within. These positions will not stay vacant for long, that I can guarantee.

Who knows maybe this is just the slight shake up needed to make this line more relevant.

[Mavus]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

A proper M? Many here would disagree.

no feel steering, 3500lbs, luxo gizmos, asd, etc. is not for motorsport!! take M2 and strip it and let it dance!! and fix those crooked seats along the way

[X3paul]

Originally Posted by N & M

Isn't funny how I am going from an M5 Jahre to an M2?!?

The last proper big bodied M was E60. It handled, sounded great and thrilled. Oh, and it killed Ferraris is straight line.

Keep that M5. With next gen awd and auto only its prices will only go up. Future classic my friend. But totally agree that the E60 m5 was a better sports car. In fact I hope to add a v10 monster to my lineup one day

[Welcome to NBA Jam]

When you make the most affordable car look like this:



And the most expensive car look like this:



Then duh, sales are going to suck.

[DJKapeesh]

This could be a sign BMW,

Stay in your lane and produce manual, sports cars and luxury cruisers?

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

The Headline is misleading. BMW haven't lost their development team, they have lost their key EV executives some of which were working on other non-BMWi developments.

Agreed. They just lost management, not the actual people who know anything.

[ron_jeremy]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

I think what BMW has done is to specialize in hybrid powertrains(ie: e-drive) - bc most people need a car to go further than batteries alone can provide(range) right now. The new 330e comes to mind as being an great example of e-drive packaging. BMW 330e Plug-in Hybrid gets 248bhp and (OFFICIALLY) does 140mpg!

The 330e is extremely popular in Norway, because of almost zero taxes, it's a bargain compared to conventional solution with diesel or petrol.
It cost less than a 320i, same with 225xe, it's priced from 358.000.-, it's "twin" 225d cost 200.000.- more, with less standard features.
About the i line up, it's gaining momentum, top 3 soled EV vehicles here, they're everywhere.

[MFNATIK]

Originally Posted by Arcades

Japan is a different story. They aren't strictly against anything from the West.

China on the other hand has always had the same story for the past decade. They dislike the west to such a point that they put up a giant Firewall to block anything that comes from the west. And yet they constantly rip things off from the West and "claim" it as their own. This isn't any different, they have trouble thinking things up for themselves and have to take things from the West to get any sort of idea. They blatantly ripped off Range Rover and numerous other cars as their own.

But I guess I should end it as saying I am Taiwan born and I have something against China's Government and I would never like them. Not their people, just their government. They will never do anything right in my eyes and the more my parents write up China as some next big thing the more I will roll my eyes.

I agree actually. Except the fact that almost all Apple products are made in China by young children at Foxcon and they are obviously pretty nicely made. I think the Chinese can make anything you want. If you want to pay the premium, they will make you premium stuff. If you want bargain bin, they can make bargain bin. You get what you pay for hahah. But you're right, they just copy everything and use slave/child labor to do it.