[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by CanadianGatorBacon

1. I don't like the design of the interior, and that's where I spend my time.

2. Here is an example of the all the different model designations for the ATS sedan, in the order that Cadillac presents them on the website:

• 2.5L STANDARD
• 2.0L TURBO STANDARD
• 2.5L LUXURY
• 2.0L TURBO LUXURY
• 3.6L LUXURY
• 2.0L TURBO PERFORMANCE
• 3.6L PERFORMANCE
• 2.0L TURBO PREMIUM
• 3.6L PREMIUM

What the hell? Nine different model designations? In alternating order of engine size? You want to turn people off before they even get to the dealership, present them with a confusing list of models that they have to sort through the differences to figure out what's what.

I appreciate the range of options, but there has to be a better way to present this. Like engine size, and then make the rest packages, like every other car company. All this really ends up being is 3 engines with 3 packages (because standard is not a package):

• 2.5L (Available packages: Luxury)
• 2.0L Turbo (Available packages: Luxury, performance, and premium)
• 3.6L (Available packages: Luxury, performance, and premium)

This is so much easier to digest. Cadillac's marketing (not advertising, but maybe also advertising) is horrible.

3. They don't offer a car small enough for me.

So Cadillac offers the ATS as "Standard" trim,"Luxury" trim, "Preimum" trim, and "Performance" trim and the chassis comes with 3 different engines: a NA 2.5L, a 2.0 L turbo, and a 3.6L V6. That's hard to comprehend? LOL. Thank God you didn't add in the Coupe because a person's head may explode!

Let's see, the 3-series when originally released came in 3 stupidly-named trim levels (not now because it was to confusing), has a 2.0L gas turbo (at 2 power levels), 3.0L turbo, 2.0L turbo diesel. Comes in 3 body styles: Sedan, Wagon, and Grand Turismo (whatever the F that is), and a hybrid (330e). Oh in both "i" and "xi" variants. Then BMW offers "M" packages, but are those BMW M Brand cars, or just faux M stuff?

But the ATS trims are confusing? LOL

[sygazelle]

It seems like every time a car company comes up with cars that are touted to be BMW beaters by the press, those models end up falling short or even failing. It seems like the Heisman Curse to get chosen as the car that's going to dethrone the 3er.

Even though we come on this forum and bitch and moan about this and that, it turns out that there is really something that sets BMW apart in its class. Many competitors have tried to make the BMW less relevant over the years and we as car buyers are the winners because competition breeds innovation and we all get better cars as a result. Turns out BMW, despite all its faults, is still hard to displace, even by cars that handle better according to the mags. While BMW may not be the best and any one thing, the whole package still kicks ass.

[Mywifes335]

Originally Posted by gtron

I went to two different Cadillac dealerships to look at the ATS-V and CTS-V. I believe they made those cars to appeal to people like us so they want change.

I would think that both of those cars are an indication of change and that they're trying. The problem is - NOBODY TOLD THE DEALERSHIPS.

When I walked in I was looked at like "why aren't you 100 years old? not serious; please leave". I asked about the ATS-V at one place and this guy wouldn't even get out of his chair to shake my hand. Then he went on to say how expensive it is as to say I couldn't afford it so I'm not worth getting out of his chair for. For the record, I was not dressed down. For example, I happen to be wearing an $8,000 watch at this time.

I went to another dealer and again, I was looked at like I didn't belong there. I was showed the outside of the car but they wouldn't even start it up.

It was one of the craziest experiences I've had at a dealership let alone two. They felt dated and out of touch with their new potential customer base.

I really wanted a manual sedan too. I thought it would have been cool to sport an american car in my area. Like a trendsetter or something. Yea... no, didn't get past the dated sales people.

I'm actually shaking my head with disbelief as I type this because thinking back on it, I feel bad for the people that are trying to make it "cool" but they're failing due to someone forgetting to tell the front lines.

The whole thing was embarrassing and uncomfortable.

Dude, I had the same treatment when I was buying my wife's Trailblazer SS. They refused a test drive and didn't take me seriously. Despite rolling up in an $80k AMG Mercedes and a buddy of mine. I immediately called another dealer explained to them I wouldn't buy the car unless I drove it. Ended up getting it $500 UNDER invoice and drove home with it.

Full disclosure: I never dress up to buy a car

Honestly, having had so many BMWs and other luxury brands, the experience at other dealerships can be so jarring. The worst were the Chevy dealerships and Dodge dealerships. They never let you test drive the Vettes and the Dodge dealer refused to let me test drive the NEON SRT4. In that instance, I pulled up with my E39 530i sport. I was so annoyed that I bought a Volvo S60R the next week.

I sold cars in college and never judged people for being unable to purchase or too poor to afford. You look at these broken-down American brand car salespeople and know they make a menial to at best OK living and it's just crazy to have them size you up. It's such incredible ignorance.

I've always been treated better at BMW dealerships. Porsche has been nice as well. Mercedes varies.

One of the weirdest experiences I had was at a Mitsubishi dealership. My wife and I stopped by to test drive the EVO X. The dealership was totally cliche and served BBQ out of a tent and had free food and drinks inside. It was like a circus. The salesman and manager were so excited and adamant about selling one they literally would not let us leave until we drove it home. I got my 2012 EVO X GSR for $2k UNDER invoice. Saddest thing was they had 4 2012s at the time and 2 2011s that were leftover and unsold. Such a wonderful car but no one bought it.

I totally feel you. With the Trailblazer SS I so wanted to pull a Pretty Woman at the first Chevy dealership. "You work on commission right? Big mistake....huge!"

Anyway, rant over.

[Arcades]

Originally Posted by Mywifes335

Dude, I had the same treatment when I was buying my wife's Trailblazer SS. They refused a test drive and didn't take me seriously. Despite rolling up in an $80k AMG Mercedes and a buddy of mine. I immediately called another dealer explained to them I wouldn't buy the car unless I drove it. Ended up getting it $500 UNDER invoice and drove home with it.

Full disclosure: I never dress up to buy a car

Honestly, having had so many BMWs and other luxury brands, the experience at other dealerships can be so jarring. The worst were the Chevy dealerships and Dodge dealerships. They never let you test drive the Vettes and the Dodge dealer refused to let me test drive the NEON SRT4. In that instance, I pulled up with my E39 530i sport. I was so annoyed that I bought a Volvo S60R the next week.

I sold cars in college and never judged people for being unable to purchase or too poor to afford. You look at these broken-down American brand car salespeople and know they make a menial to at best OK living and it's just crazy to have them size you up. It's such incredible ignorance.

I've always been treated better at BMW dealerships. Porsche has been nice as well. Mercedes varies.

One of the weirdest experiences I had was at a Mitsubishi dealership. My wife and I stopped by to test drive the EVO X. The dealership was totally cliche and served BBQ out of a tent and had free food and drinks inside. It was like a circus. The salesman and manager were so excited and adamant about selling one they literally would not let us leave until we drove it home. I got my 2012 EVO X GSR for $2k UNDER invoice. Saddest thing was they had 4 2012s at the time and 2 2011s that were leftover and unsold. Such a wonderful car but no one bought it.

I totally feel you. With the Trailblazer SS I so wanted to pull a Pretty Woman at the first Chevy dealership. "You work on commission right? Big mistake....huge!"

Anyway, rant over.

As so many have mentioned by now, American dealerships are out of touch with the crowd they should be selling their cars to. Caddy especially, Ford is a bit better since those damn Mustangs with bad drivers are all over the damn place.

I live in a mainly Asian suburbs so car dealerships here do not blink an eye when they see any Asian go into a dealership wearing shorts and a t-shirt. BMW, Benz, Audi, Lexus, Honda, Toyota and Acura dealers here (along with the few Subaru and Mitsubishi) dealers are generally very down to Earth. They don't judge. The dealerships that DO are ALL American dealerships. The only one here that I know of that doesn't do so happens to be owned by Sierra Auto Group who are based from San Gabriel Valley so they know the crowd here.

Caddy cannot get past their old image of being a brand for people who are in the late 40+. I have never associated Caddy as being a brand for the younger generation of drivers. Their salesman and dealerships seems to also replicate this by giving you an attitude if they see you dressed down.

Honestly, ask yourself, who actually thinks, "Well I'm going to buy a car, lets dress up in a suit!" No one in our age group does this. I have not seen anyone in our age group do this. While Arcadia and San Marino might be on the higher end now a days but I find it obscene American dealerships hold on to there old ways of selling cars. For god sakes I went to a random Benz dealership in shorts and a t-shirt to clear something up and they didn't bat an eye or treat me wrong. I have never felt comfortable doing so going to any American brand dealership. They like to feed you bs and think you don't know what you are talking about when the majority of us know what we want already.

The days of window shopping are long over, that is why companies like Best Buys are doing poorly because people go in, get what they want and leave. No one now a days goes into a dealership to ask questions. We know what we are looking for.

Your rant is correct. To this day, the drivers who pull up beside me in Caddy cars are usually always older people with white hair who are clearly in the late 50s. I FINALLY saw an ELR on the road and it was full of old people. What does that tell you about the problems facing Caddy? They make the ATS-V and CTS-V but do not market them correctly and push away the group of people that they should be attracting. Obviously all car brands have their bad dealers but American cars seems to always have horror stories online.

[David70]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

So Cadillac offers the ATS as "Standard" trim,"Luxury" trim, "Preimum" trim, and "Performance" trim and the chassis comes with 3 different engines: a NA 2.5L, a 2.0 L turbo, and a 3.6L V6. That's hard to comprehend? LOL. Thank God you didn't add in the Coupe because a person's head may explode!

X2. Select a trim (4 choices), select an engine (3 choices), decide if you want 2 or 4 doors (2 choices), move on. Not sure how this could confuse anyone. "Luxury" doesn't have everything you want move up to "Performance", 2.0T not the engine you want, move up to the V-6.

I read recently where they are going to start offering more options outside the packages so you can but only what you want, (I had to buy a "Premium" to get Magnetic ride, LSD, staggered forged wheels, extra cooling) but package came with other things I didn't care about. They are moving more toward the BMW "buy everything on the side". Good part might be I could get the car I wanted for a lower price without the things I don't want, problem with this is it does get confusing (I wanted the Sport suspension and the V6 so only choice was the Premium) and without ordering your car (which a huge portion don't want to do), chances of the exact car being on the lot or with a dealer trade becomes really difficult.

If they were able to do it (dealer laws make it virtually impossible) they need to drop the worst dealerships (base it on sales, service, whatever), ones left would then increase their sales and have the money to upgrade their facilities. BMW has far fewer dealers with far greater sales per dealership, dealerships are generally better, far less overall inventory but the dealership you go to has more inventory which then speeds up turning inventory. Within 25 miles of me I have 2 BMW dealerships and 5 Cadillac dealerships. Obviously the BMW dealers have far more inventory per dealership, sell far more cars and then have more money to have better facilities and people.

[KingOfJericho]

Originally Posted by CanadianGatorBacon

1. I don't like the design of the interior, and that's where I spend my time.

2. Here is an example of the all the different model designations for the ATS sedan, in the order that Cadillac presents them on the website:

• 2.5L STANDARD
• 2.0L TURBO STANDARD
• 2.5L LUXURY
• 2.0L TURBO LUXURY
• 3.6L LUXURY
• 2.0L TURBO PERFORMANCE
• 3.6L PERFORMANCE
• 2.0L TURBO PREMIUM
• 3.6L PREMIUM

What the hell? Nine different model designations? In alternating order of engine size? You want to turn people off before they even get to the dealership, present them with a confusing list of models that they have to sort through the differences to figure out what's what.

I appreciate the range of options, but there has to be a better way to present this. Like engine size, and then make the rest packages, like every other car company. All this really ends up being is 3 engines with 3 packages (because standard is not a package):

• 2.5L (Available packages: Luxury)
• 2.0L Turbo (Available packages: Luxury, performance, and premium)
• 3.6L (Available packages: Luxury, performance, and premium)

This is so much easier to digest. Cadillac's marketing (not advertising, but maybe also advertising) is horrible.

3. They don't offer a car small enough for me.

LOL.. yeah this is totally straight forward:



Oh, and don't forget that each one of the 13 models has several trim levels.

[ptbarnacle]

Having owned both Cadillacs, Chevy, and BMWs as well as other brands, I'm familiar with dealers in my areas where I've lived. Luxury brand dealers separate themselves thru service. Why buy an Escalade ESV versus a Suburban LTZ? I've owned both and currently moved to the Suburban because of dealer experience etc. will be the last GM car I own though. Area dealers influence my buying behavior. I currently own a new BMW M3, newer Chevy Suburban, a newer Ford Fusion, Nissan truck, and an Acura TLs. I have a few kids. Lol.

Inventory aging and sales cycle is influenced by the factories as well. Many articles out about GM trying to look strong by manufacturing cars and stuffing the supply stream full, forcing dealers to take inventory. GM has been pushing this since the govt rescue to show how wonderful everything is. Those manufacturing numbers are what's published as sold.

The next big economic bubble to pop will be the sub-prime car loans or the student loans. I got 0% or close to it on the GM's because they wanted to move them. Ford was close to that as well. Makes paying them off very quickly quite easy, but not necessary at 0%.
That's why the stock market, the housing, and the auto industries rely on the mere mention of rates by the FED to swing wildly.

Just my 2 cents.

[Mywifes335]

Originally Posted by ptbarnacle

Having owned both Cadillacs, Chevy, and BMWs as well as other brands, I'm familiar with dealers in my areas where I've lived. Luxury brand dealers separate themselves thru service. Why buy an Escalade ESV versus a Suburban LTZ? I've owned both and currently moved to the Suburban because of dealer experience etc. will be the last GM car I own though. Area dealers influence my buying behavior. I currently own a new BMW M3, newer Chevy Suburban, a newer Ford Fusion, Nissan truck, and an Acura TLs. I have a few kids. Lol.

Inventory aging and sales cycle is influenced by the factories as well. Many articles out about GM trying to look strong by manufacturing cars and stuffing the supply stream full, forcing dealers to take inventory. GM has been pushing this since the govt rescue to show how wonderful everything is. Those manufacturing numbers are what's published as sold.

The next big economic bubble to pop will be the sub-prime car loans or the student loans. I got 0% or close to it on the GM's because they wanted to move them. Ford was close to that as well. Makes paying them off very quickly quite easy, but not necessary at 0%.
That's why the stock market, the housing, and the auto industries rely on the mere mention of rates by the FED to swing wildly.

Just my 2 cents.

My biggest gripe about American cars is its profit margin. For BMW, if you can get a specialty car (M3/4, M5/6, i8) for $1k above invoice you're doing well. For run of the mill BMWs you can usually get at $500 over invoice or less. However, I feel that the factory doesn't pad as much profit for the dealerships as American vehicles. Either that or they're priced "right".

Why do I say this? Because every year, 2x a year, GM blows out their inventory by reducing car prices by 20%. This is across the board save the Camaro and Vettes. In 2015, I could've bought a Silverado with an MSRP of $63k for $48k...brand new. You never see luxury marques do this. Sure, BMW and Audi are notorious for subsidized leases, but it's not year-round and it's certainly not a 20% discount.

I just think if you're not careful, you can drive home in a "fully loaded" Ford EDGE for $60k. Yup, this car exists. And yup, my wife went to a Ford dealer and she was quoted this. I was so infuriated...we immediately crossed the EDGE off our list. And no, it was not my original suggestion.

[trey100]

The car magazines keep telling us the Cadillac is the better car, and to some people it may be. But in my experience driving different brands, there is something about how my BMWs have driven (admittedly optioned on the sporty side) that the others cannot replicate.

I know some of BMWs success is due to incentivized leases, but I maintain that their cars hit most things right. Styling can be sporty while not looking childish, nice materials inside, and great on the road. I don't think Cadillac hits as well on those items and combined with their stigma, you end up not selling cars.

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by Mywifes335

My biggest gripe about American cars is its profit margin. For BMW, if you can get a specialty car (M3/4, M5/6, i8) for $1k above invoice you're doing well. For run of the mill BMWs you can usually get at $500 over invoice or less. However, I feel that the factory doesn't pad as much profit for the dealerships as American vehicles. Either that or they're priced "right".

Why do I say this? Because every year, 2x a year, GM blows out their inventory by reducing car prices by 20%. This is across the board save the Camaro and Vettes. In 2015, I could've bought a Silverado with an MSRP of $63k for $48k...brand new. You never see luxury marques do this. Sure, BMW and Audi are notorious for subsidized leases, but it's not year-round and it's certainly not a 20% discount.

I just think if you're not careful, you can drive home in a "fully loaded" Ford EDGE for $60k. Yup, this car exists. And yup, my wife went to a Ford dealer and she was quoted this. I was so infuriated...we immediately crossed the EDGE off our list. And no, it was not my original suggestion.

FYI, Audi leases suck - residuals are not subsidized like BMW or some Japanese manufacturers.

Also, there are publicly held dealerships that disclose profit margins by type of car. For example, AutoNation is (or at least was) segmented between domestic, import and premium luxury. I haven't checked in a while but they used to make more on sales of premium luxury (including BMW) than domestics. When the domestic manufacturers have blow out sales they typically need to send incentive money to the dealers to subsidize them or the dealers would lose money on those sales. Those sales are often to resolve inventory build ups due too over production.

[W///]

Originally Posted by gtron

I went to two different Cadillac dealerships to look at the ATS-V and CTS-V. I believe they made those cars to appeal to people like us so they want change.

I would think that both of those cars are an indication of change and that they're trying. The problem is - NOBODY TOLD THE DEALERSHIPS.

When I walked in I was looked at like "why aren't you 100 years old? not serious; please leave". I asked about the ATS-V at one place and this guy wouldn't even get out of his chair to shake my hand. Then he went on to say how expensive it is as to say I couldn't afford it so I'm not worth getting out of his chair for. For the record, I was not dressed down. For example, I happen to be wearing an $8,000 watch at this time.

I went to another dealer and again, I was looked at like I didn't belong there. I was showed the outside of the car but they wouldn't even start it up.

It was one of the craziest experiences I've had at a dealership let alone two. They felt dated and out of touch with their new potential customer base.

I really wanted a manual sedan too. I thought it would have been cool to sport an american car in my area. Like a trendsetter or something. Yea... no, didn't get past the dated sales people.

I'm actually shaking my head with disbelief as I type this because thinking back on it, I feel bad for the people that are trying to make it "cool" but they're failing due to someone forgetting to tell the front lines.

The whole thing was embarrassing and uncomfortable.

Originally Posted by Mywifes335

Dude, I had the same treatment when I was buying my wife's Trailblazer SS. They refused a test drive and didn't take me seriously. Despite rolling up in an $80k AMG Mercedes and a buddy of mine. I immediately called another dealer explained to them I wouldn't buy the car unless I drove it. Ended up getting it $500 UNDER invoice and drove home with it.

Full disclosure: I never dress up to buy a car

Honestly, having had so many BMWs and other luxury brands, the experience at other dealerships can be so jarring. The worst were the Chevy dealerships and Dodge dealerships. They never let you test drive the Vettes and the Dodge dealer refused to let me test drive the NEON SRT4. In that instance, I pulled up with my E39 530i sport. I was so annoyed that I bought a Volvo S60R the next week.

I sold cars in college and never judged people for being unable to purchase or too poor to afford. You look at these broken-down American brand car salespeople and know they make a menial to at best OK living and it's just crazy to have them size you up. It's such incredible ignorance.

I've always been treated better at BMW dealerships. Porsche has been nice as well. Mercedes varies.

One of the weirdest experiences I had was at a Mitsubishi dealership. My wife and I stopped by to test drive the EVO X. The dealership was totally cliche and served BBQ out of a tent and had free food and drinks inside. It was like a circus. The salesman and manager were so excited and adamant about selling one they literally would not let us leave until we drove it home. I got my 2012 EVO X GSR for $2k UNDER invoice. Saddest thing was they had 4 2012s at the time and 2 2011s that were leftover and unsold. Such a wonderful car but no one bought it.

I totally feel you. With the Trailblazer SS I so wanted to pull a Pretty Woman at the first Chevy dealership. "You work on commission right? Big mistake....huge!"

Anyway, rant over.

This happened to my friend and I as well. Disclaimer though, this was only one dealership.

We went to check out the new C7 Z06 when they came out. We weren't dressed in suits or anything, but he did have a 991.2 C2S while I drove my E92 M3. Not one salesman greeted us at the door. We looked around the showroom for 30 mins, and while a few salesmen poked their heads over the cubicles, not one person came and asked us if we needed help. These are $80k+ cars, not Ford Pintos!

Like I said, I didn't expect them to throw keys at us and have at it. But a "Can I help you with anything" is common courtesy.

On the flip side, I showed up to the Porsche showroom 2 blocks away in my E92 again, wearing a polo and shorts. They asked me which cars (plural) I'd like to test drive. Drove a brand new Boxster S and a 911 C4S with a sticker price of $130k.

[Racer20]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

My $0.02 is that BMW was right to soften up the F30

Ding Ding Ding! This. Cadillac is already working HARD to improve the ride of their next gen cars. With roads as bad as they are today everywhere, the stiff responsive cars of 10 years ago just aren't what people want these days.

[gtron]

Originally Posted by W///

This happened to my friend and I as well. Disclaimer though, this was only one dealership.

We went to check out the new C7 Z06 when they came out. We weren't dressed in suits or anything, but he did have a 991.2 C2S while I drove my E92 M3. Not one salesman greeted us at the door. We looked around the showroom for 30 mins, and while a few salesmen poked their heads over the cubicles, not one person came and asked us if we needed help. These are $80k+ cars, not Ford Pintos!

Like I said, I didn't expect them to throw keys at us and have at it. But a "Can I help you with anything" is common courtesy.

On the flip side, I showed up to the Porsche showroom 2 blocks away in my E92 again, wearing a polo and shorts. They asked me which cars (plural) I'd like to test drive. Drove a brand new Boxster S and a 911 C4S with a sticker price of $130k.

Speaking of Porsdhe -- the last Porshe I had they just gave me and the wife keys and said come back when we had a good feel for it. I haven't been to a dealership where someone didn't have to drive with me in many years.

[Mywifes335]

Originally Posted by RickFLM4

FYI, Audi leases suck (realistic) - residuals are not subsidized like BMW or some Japanese manufacturers.

Also, there are publicly held dealerships that disclose profit margins by type of car. For example, AutoNation is (or at least was) segmented between domestic, import and premium luxury. I haven't checked in a while but they used to make more on sales of premium luxury (including BMW) than domestics. When the domestic manufacturers have blow out sales they typically need to send incentive money to the dealers to subsidize them or the dealers would lose money on those sales. Those sales are often to resolve inventory build ups due too over production.

Audi leases generally suck (realistic) but I've seen programs where they have great deals on their A3/A4s, and recently the Q3/5. Plus Audi provides huge amounts of conquest cash. I've seen $2k on A6s for current BMW owners.

At the dealer level I'm sure premium cars yield more margin, but I'm curious what the manufacturer profit is. The fact they can offer such huge discounts to blow out cars - it's not like the money comes from nowhere...this is what leads me to believe the manufacturers pad the profits.

[RickFLM4]

I got a little interested and did a quick search:

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/bus...sler/23852189/

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...or-lamborghini

Yes, Audi does offer some conquest cash and does promos on clearing out inventory. I got a decent lease in a 2011 A6 before the new models came in. When they arrived the lease price for the new model was about double (due to higher MSRP, lack of incentive, lower lease residual and higher MF). I looked into leasing an RS5 when I got my M4 and even with Audi Loyalty incentives it didn't make financial sense to lease one - it needed to be bought.

[Mywifes335]

This article

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/bus...sler/23852189/

....is a little misleading in that EBIT for an auto manufacturer (any company) is heavily dependent on operating efficiency quite a bit more than gross margin. To say Toyota is a better-run company than GM is a bit of an understatement. The big three are run like many large, established US corporations - inefficient, archaic, top-heavy and unwilling to adapt.

I believe that GMs unadjusted Gross margin (at the initial sale basis) is pretty comparable if not higher than other high volume brands. Once you factor in the ridiculous incentives it's probably on par. My biggest gripe is I believe the manufacturers set inflated MSRPs then scramble to blow them out later when they've got a ton of aged units sitting at dealerships unsold - hurting their profitability as well as cash flow.

It's tethered to the profit at the dealer, but not really. The manufacturer makes the same amount per car no matter how much the dealer makes. This is before incentives and any potential after sales credits like interest premiums, etc.

[Mywifes335]

Originally Posted by supernoob

I was in a dealership and seriously looking to buy a cts-v myself. It was the last year of the previous model. Black diamond edition. Manual. I was thinking about getting the wagon. Such a beautiful and rare car.

I had the money. I had the will. I was even dressed well. But after walking around the floor model for 15 minutes and popping the hood... Sitting in it. Looking it over... Not one of the four guys in that showroom came to me. They were too busy chatting about whatever (not 30 feet away from me) rather than to approach a potential buyer.

I left and spent my money elsewhere.

I found the interior kinda inferior. Cheap plastic. Cheap trim. The fabric on the ceiling made me think of a dodge neon I knew the car to be quality under the hood and mechanically sound. But yeah. The trim I was willing to put up with. The sellers killed the deal for me.

Seems like same shit experience across the board with Cadillac dealerships. What a bunch of scumbags.

[W///]

Originally Posted by gtron

Speaking of Porsdhe -- the last Porshe I had they just gave me and the wife keys and said come back when we had a good feel for it. I haven't been to a dealership where someone didn't have to drive with me in many years.

That happens, but very rarely for me. And it's not something I expect frankly. And while I don't want to be hassled all the time, they could have at least gotten up to greet us.

As a matter of fact, that happened not once but twice! The second time, my friend was in his GT4. And not one person thought to come ask us if we needed help with anything.

If that's the sales department, I wonder if the service department is just as worthless.

[fecurtis]

I think Cadillac's problem is image.

They built shit for years plus, as many have mentioned, historically Cadillac dealers were rolled in with Chevy dealers, GMC, etc.

When people are spending that kind of money for a car they want their dealership experience (both pre and post purchase) to go smoothly. Since these dealers deal with so many people, they tend to just be difficult to work with. Places that sell only luxury cars train sales people better to offer a different experience.

While not a Caddie dealer, a buddy of mine a couple years ago was interested in a Subaru Impreza. The sales guy refused to let him test drive any cars telling him that people who want an Impreza don't need to test drive it.

Just nuts. I was able to walk into an Audi dealership and BMW dealership and test drive an S4, A6, and a 335i all in the same day, no questions asked, no pressure.

[Mywifes335]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

While not a Caddie dealer, a buddy of mine a couple years ago was interested in a Subaru Impreza. The sales guy refused to let him test drive any cars telling him that people who want an Impreza don't need to test drive it.

Just nuts. I was able to walk into an Audi dealership and BMW dealership and test drive an S4, A6, and a 335i all in the same day, no questions asked, no pressure.

This was the reason the Chevy dealer gave me for not letting me test drive the Vette. I got an M5 as a result.

"Our Corvette buyer prefer 0 miles and buy the cars without rest driving them because they know it's what they want. We don't test drive Corvettes."

As a consolation, they offered to let me test a used Vette that wasn't even the same trim. I was looking at a Z06, the used car was a base automatic Convertible.

I was like, "I need to drive a car before I decide to spend money on it." To me, anyone who makes ANY purchase without empirical research (test driving is one key input), is just stupid.

Sorry to all the Corvette guys whom have purchased their Vettes without testing them first.

[chris82]

Originally Posted by OrangeZ06

I'd love to own a new ATS-V or CTS-V, but that price tag...

I thought the same thing! I went to build one, saw the price, and stopped there; I think it's absurd. I'll take a very nicely optioned M4 instead any day

[Mywifes335]

Originally Posted by chris82

I thought the same thing! I went to build one, saw the price, and stopped there; I think it's absurd. I'll take a very nicely optioned M4 instead any day

^this boggles my mind. I mean, do these cars really cost that much more to make or are the manufacturers setting their MSRPs too high?

The CTSV basically has the same engine architecture/technology that a million other GM cars share.

I personally like the CTSV, and the previous gen car is a monster. They can easily be modded on the stock supercharger and internals to put down times that M3s can only dream of.